wishihadaname Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) If the intent of the cover nerf was to hit the healing spec hardest, then it missed its target and hit lethality instead. For a healing OP, the overpoweredness comes not from cover, but from not needing to manage energy and being able to heal without needing casts. The only spec that really benefited from leap immunity is lethality, we need it because we have a significant amount of set up. Lethality seems to be built to synergise with cover as a defense mechanic. We are encouraged by our energy regeneration mechanic to dot up everything in sight and that takes time. Furthermore, we have multiple abilities meant for kiting, but whats the point of kiting if once you get out of 10m range you get charged again? One of the best ways to defend against a melee as lethality right now is to stun, run, roll, cover, heal (x2 if energy permits), shiv and cull. This allows us to control the range of the engagement and have the fight be on our terms. With the cover nerf, this goes out the window. No more setting up from range, no more long distance escapes to heal (we can stil LOS but that requires more setup and time). Furthermore, it neuters our ability to fight any sort of melee opponent. The thing that makes lethality powerful is that it is a ranged opponent to a melee class and a melee opponent to a ranged class, we have the flexibility to exploit the other classes weakness and that relies on cover. Currently, no lethality op in their right mind is going to open up on a smasher or assassin with hidden strike. Instead you drop into cover from 30m away, apply poisons and explosive probe, and let them come to you and potentially waste some defense CD's along the way. This denies leapers their leap procs, and makes pyros and assissins waste their sprint. This in turn allows us to kite better once they do get into melee range. Bioware: please consider adding back the leap immunity as a perk tied to the 4th tier lethality tallent, escape plan. This is too high for either concealment or medic but it is ABSOLUTELY VITAL for lethality as a defensive measure. TLDR: The cover nerf kills the best defense of the lethality spec, please return it as a talent in the 4th tier. Edited October 20, 2013 by wishihadaname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I can play my lethality OP without needing Cover anywhere... You just dont know how to play it properly. Hidden Strike > WB > CG > CD > Shiv > Cull > Cull > Cull (if you have Fatality) > Backstab > Stim Boost > Cull > WB > CG > CD > Shiv > Cull > Cull (if Fatality) Wash rinse repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishihadaname Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 That will work against a target dummy or a complete scrub. Here is what any half competent melee will do to you in the time it takes you to set up for your first set of culls. Pyro: plasma missle, rail shot, TD, stock strike, rail shot. Assuming nothing crit your still at half health before you even start to damage him. If he crit you're dead meat. Smasher: Obliterate, choke, smash, ravage, scream, dispatch. You're dead before you fire your first cull. Period. Assassin. Low slash, voltaic slash, discharge, resistance (restart your rotation), maul, maul, assassinate. You're dead. Period. Concealment op: shiv, stun, backstab (acid blade), evasion, cleanse (restart your rotation). He can either stun and run at this point, or use cloaking screen, HS, and then waste you. The only melee class the standard rotation will work for is tanks and madness assassins (because they are even more broken than we are). If you open on any if these guys from full range, you'll be ready to cull by the time they reach you and they will likely waste defensive moves on the way. Obviously never do this against ranged guys, but against melee this is your only advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texnolyze Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I can play my lethality OP without needing Cover anywhere... You just dont know how to play it properly. Hidden Strike > WB > CG > CD > Shiv > Cull > Cull > Cull (if you have Fatality) > Backstab > Stim Boost > Cull > WB > CG > CD > Shiv > Cull > Cull (if Fatality) Wash rinse repeat. Your rotation alone shows bluntly that you don't know how to play this spec either. If you start with HS, you always follow up with a Shiv (in order to build UP TA's) and THEN dots combined with WB. WB is for increased damage from Cull and not the other way around so you want to make sure you have at least 2 TA's (pref. with Fatality and Stim Boost) up to maximize the output. Then you can unleash hell (which means 4-5 consecutive culls combined with Explosive Probe/restealthing). And cover has its uses many, ESPECIALLY in Lethality. You never open from stealth when faced against a Leaper. You start with Cover and then: CG -> CD -> EP -> Autoattacks/Snipes This will put you in an advantage because CG slows your opponent and you can keep dpsing him from range and use either Auto-Attacks or Snipes. When he finally catches up to you, THEN you start with the normal rotation. I agree that this change will hurt Lethality Operatives the most - one thing that gave us an edge against leapers will disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Your rotation alone shows bluntly that you don't know how to play this spec either. If you start with HS, you always follow up with a Shiv (in order to build UP TA's) and THEN dots combined with WB. WB is for increased damage from Cull and not the other way around so you want to make sure you have at least 2 TA's (pref. with Fatality and Stim Boost) up to maximize the output. Then you can unleash hell (which means 4-5 consecutive culls combined with Explosive Probe/restealthing). And cover has its uses many, ESPECIALLY in Lethality. You never open from stealth when faced against a Leaper. You start with Cover and then: CG -> CD -> EP -> Autoattacks/Snipes This will put you in an advantage because CG slows your opponent and you can keep dpsing him from range and use either Auto-Attacks or Snipes. When he finally catches up to you, THEN you start with the normal rotation. I agree that this change will hurt Lethality Operatives the most - one thing that gave us an edge against leapers will disappear. wb increases the damage from cull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryowolf Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 wb increases the damage from cull? Yes, WB increasing the next 10 poison attacks by 30%. Cull is a white attack that can add up to two additional internal attacks per poison you have on your enemy. Those internal attacks count as poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Not that I agree, but Bio indicated that they thought the entire class was too "slippery", not just the healing spec. that, and they also indicated that the now think that the Op isn't supposed to use cover...so I doubt well see it return any time soon. Our best bet is to push them for the buffs to our defensive abilities outside of shield...the one thing that they said we did need. the reason they took cover (a big defensive ability for DPS Ops) is a mystery to me....I can only hope that they plan on following up (soon) with more talented defensive abilities. that in addition to our energy buffs...AND if the change to our "energy dump" works out (couldn't udnerstand why they would increase the damage to an ability that costs energy when were already starved for it in the middle tree...go figure). As long as they give back defensive abilities to make up for it, it's not a real loss. IF..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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