Sqaure-Enix did it....

[EmperorLupey]

no 2013 data and missing key games, cute post. The entire discussion is bait regardless, but your links don't support your point.

 

If you have a problem with the numbers you have to take it up with telnet, and blogspot. These statistics do not lie they are simple information points plotted on a chart.

All updates happen quarterly.

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/

[EmperorLupey]

Seriously, i cant understand how you can even post that....

BILLIONAIRES HAVE THE MONEY TO DO A LOT OF STUFF BUT DONT!!

 

ea is one of the greediest, short term rushed product companies out there

1)they focus very little on fixing bugs unless they are really really game breaking

2)they barely test their patches and manage to let patches with game breaking bugs in the main game

3)they keep spamming cartel market items for profit

4)They make a pvp only star fighter expansion aka the im too lazy to make AI's and program them, its cheaper to make it pvp(and no i wouldnt play pve star fights anyway, but this action shows their motives)

 

Largely summed up points, and I sense a tone of hostility here, but this is correct. SWTOR is not a game to EA or BioWare. It is a business,a nd so long as their profits increase they consider it a success. They are right to think that way since that is how businesses calculate success.

[StarMagus]

To be fair the writer of that blog ((and I've used it for historical data)) admits that he's having more problems getting information and that it's almost impossible to compare or analyze stuff from 2012/2013 on.

 

While this version has a reasonable amount of additions and changes, I expect following versions to have quite a bit less. It is becoming increasingly difficult to get any subscription numbers. Not in the least, because subscription based MMORPG’s are the exception these days. Most of them go free to play.

 

Example: We know from EA/Bioware that SWTOR subs were below 500,000 around 5-6 months ago, and he still has the SWTOR subs at over 1 million.

Edited October 16, 2013 by StarMagus

[ImpactHound]

If you have a problem with the numbers you have to take it up with telnet, and blogspot. These statistics do not lie they are simple information points plotted on a chart.

All updates happen quarterly.

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/

 

Again, we're 3 quarters deep into 2013 and no data for this year other than WoW. Stay relevant.

Edited October 16, 2013 by ImpactHound

[EmperorLupey]

Not this again. SWG had bled off 1/6th of it's entire subscriber base before the CU/NGE came out. From a peak of 300,000 subscribers down to 250,000 before the changes. I've posted charts and numbers in other threads and it gets old seeing fans of SWG try to wave away the reality of what happened.

 

The numbers in all MMO's degenerate after launch. Reasons are marketing departments hit big with multiple demographics, where the game is only able to keep a certain amount from each demographic, and altogether ignore others. That's what happens when its a consumers market.

 

On a side note. SWG had a devoted fan base because of the following of a cannon story line. It had its appeal. I was not a fan. In my opinion the game was too much a job.

 

Games are moving into a more casual user base. This is mainly because the people that play these games are mostly between the ages of 14-30 (even these numbers are shifting to an older demographic). Adults do not normally have the time to play a game all day, and if they do they usually do not have the money to afford to pay for it. The people that the game needs to appeal to are the working class. Those people have priorities of work, family, friends, automobiles, bills. They do not have 13 hours a day to plug into a game. When you have 4-5 hours most as your time in a game you want that time to be immersed into a series of tasks, and the ability to break off at any given time to take care of the higher priorities.

[EmperorLupey]

Again, we're 3 quarters deep into 2013 and no data for this year other than WoW. Stay relevant.

 

Where is your citation? If you want other peoples relevance you need to provide information. So far I see none coming from you.

[captpickles]

500 million is ridiculous.

Actual cost would be less than 50 million. Of course, 50 million is a ton of money. You'd need to have some sort of proof that they'd make a profit off it.

 

they spent 300 million making it. a remake cost of 500 is *right on the money* because it would cost almost as much for a full relaunch. *while* maintaining the current game until new game launch.

 

welcome to business son ...

Edited October 16, 2013 by captpickles

[ImpactHound]

Where is your citation? If you want other peoples relevance you need to provide information. So far I see none coming from you.

 

I don't need citation for an opinion, and I never implied I had hard facts. You're just the opposite, trying to used outdated blogs as sources to be contrarian.

 

You tried to prove SWTOR is number #2 in subs, and SWTOR isn't even reported on a current timeframe on the images you posted. Furthermore, if you actually read the latest Aug post in the blog, it states EVE online is reporting 500k paying subs matching SWTOR, so you actually shot your own argument in the foot.

[StarMagus]

The numbers in all MMO's degenerate after launch. Reasons are marketing departments hit big with multiple demographics, where the game is only able to keep a certain amount from each demographic, and altogether ignore others. That's what happens when its a consumers market.

 

 

Of course, but the idea that SWG was somehow not losing members before the CU/NGE just isn't supported by the numbers. One could argue that the losses were what all MMO should expect, but one can't say they didn't exist.

[captpickles]

http://www.g4tv.com/games/pc/61502/star-wars-the-old-republic/review/

 

Although I guess I'm wasting my time with you of all posters.

 

please.... g4 sells there reviews like candy at a heroine clinic ...

[StarMagus]

I don't need citation for an opinion, and I never implied I had hard facts. You're just the opposite, trying to used outdated blogs as sources to be contrarian.

 

You tried to prove SWTOR is number #2 in subs, and SWTOR isn't even reported on a current timeframe on the images you posted. Furthermore, if you actually read the latest Aug post in the blog, it states EVE online is reporting 500k paying subs matching SWTOR, so you actually shot your own argument in the foot.

 

What's funny is the website he posted from says that EVE has the 2nd largest subscription number of any game from the west. Which means they have more than SWTOR.

 

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

 

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

 

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

[captpickles]

Of course, but the idea that SWG was somehow not losing members before the CU/NGE just isn't supported by the numbers. One could argue that the losses were what all MMO should expect, but one can't say they didn't exist.

 

EA/BW fully admitted to shutting down swg in favor of swtor. this is old news... they saw the possibility of more $$ in the cc store and went nutz.

[Vandicus]

they spent 300 million making it. a remake cost of 500 is *right on the money* because it would cost almost as much for a full relaunch. *while* maintaining the current game until new game launch.

 

welcome to business son ...

 

300 million vastly exceeds the normally bandied about estimates of 150-200 million by the news industry. To be quite frank, we(the forum community as a whole) know not what it cost to develop initially, nor what a reboot would cost.

[TheLexinator]

Well, there would be. Glad I'm not playing it.

 

Actually I like the new FFRR. Its a huge improvement over the old version.

 

If EAware just optimizes TOR's engine and lowers planet loading time, I would be extremely happy. You know, make combat a little less sluggish and more responsive, etc.

 

Other than that, I see nothing terribly wrong with TOR.

 

Still why does my SSD take about a minute to load a planet? Skyrim loading time takes seconds and TOR loading time takes almost a minute... Skyrim zones are also MUCH larger, and the game is more demanding. TOR is simply VERY POORLY optimized.

[Vandicus]

EA/BW fully admitted to shutting down swg in favor of swtor. this is old news... they saw the possibility of more $$ in the cc store and went nutz.

 

So EA/BW, who didn't even own SWG, made the decision to shut it down in favor of a Cartel store that they hadn't even conceived of yet. Perfectly rational. EA must just have a secret hold over SOE and LucasArts, as well as possessing a time machine.

[Andryah]

Again, we're 3 quarters deep into 2013 and no data for this year. Stay relevant.

Here's the nice thing about objective analysis........ you take a known data point and then you take additional data points available to you.. sometimes from the same source, sometimes from different sources... and you create an assessment of the current.

 

[this is actually what the person at mmodata does. Do you know why he does not report new data on SWTOR? Because his main objective is to report subscriptions in MMOs... and since SWTOR is no longer a pure subscription MMO.. he refuses to report data on it. In other words.. even in his own analytical norm.. he is biased against MMOs that are not subscription MMOs, by refusing to report on them any more.]

 

Now.. on to an objective assessment using multiple sources of credible data (ie: mmodata and EA directly):

 

EA reaffirmed in it's most recent quarterly earnings calls that the game continues to progress upward both in terms of commercial contribution to their bottom line as well as overall state of the game and player base. In other words.. even to the simply layman.... sounds game is stable and growing modestly... as opposed to forum mythology that it is crashing and doomed.

 

Let me give you a grade school analogy to assist you:

1) The wholesaler reported to the agriculture department how many apples he purchased from the farmers during the previous harvest.

2) The agriculture department wishes to project the state of the next apple crop. But the harvest has not taken place yet.. so the agriculture department conducts an objective assessment based on multiple sources of data.

3) The agriculture department asks the farmers "does a survey of your orchards show this next harvest to be better or worse then the last harvest? And by how much?

3) The farmers respond that the orchards are healthy and thriving and he expects to new harvest to be at least as good, probably better then the last harvest.

4) The agriculture department takes both sets of data, performs an objective risk analysis and determines that the next harvest will be at least as good as the last and most likely better.

 

There is a difference between actually wanting to figure out reality VS wanting to spread fear, doom, and uncertainty. Stop trying to spread blight about the game at your every opportunity IMO.

[StarMagus]

EA/BW fully admitted to shutting down swg in favor of swtor. this is old news... they saw the possibility of more $$ in the cc store and went nutz.

 

They didn't announce the closing of SWG until after subscriptions dropped below 50,000. I'm not surprised they killed it at that point.

[captpickles]

What's funny is the website he posted from says that EVE has the 2nd largest subscription number of any game from the west. Which means they have more than SWTOR.

 

Swtor is not #2 in subs... more like 5th or 6th... around 200-300k actives. but with ea fudging numbers onone will ever know for sure.

 

NOW, CASH WISE ?

 

i am willing to bet swtor is a soiid #3 in revenue from the cartel market - f2p market transactions.

[Vandicus]

What's funny is the website he posted from says that EVE has the 2nd largest subscription number of any game from the west. Which means they have more than SWTOR.

 

Yes EVE took that position during spring of this year. It was something like big news at the time.

[captpickles]

Yes EVE took that position during spring of this year. It was something like big news at the time.

 

ewwww space farming ??

[StarMagus]

Swtor is not #2 in subs... more like 5th or 6th... around 200-300k actives. but with ea fudging numbers onone will ever know for sure.

 

NOW, CASH WISE ?

 

i am willing to bet swtor is a soiid #3 in revenue from the cartel market - f2p market transactions.

 

Hard to say what the Subs are like, the last data point we have is from 5-6 months ago when EA announced they were just under 500k. I expect we'll find out more by the end of this month at the next earnings call, or 6 months after that as they seem to announce SWTOR numbers either once or twice a year.

[Andryah]

EA/BW fully admitted to shutting down swg in favor of swtor. this is old news... they saw the possibility of more $$ in the cc store and went nutz.

 

LOL.. dude! what's with the mythology??

 

Actually.... SoE admitted to chosing to not renew the license to continue SWG. LucasArts said nothing. EA/BW were not even parties in the contract of the SWG license.

 

There was much internet speculation and some rumors that it was more about LucasArts not wanting two MMOs running at the same time. Hindsight actually suggests that EA and LucasArts were in long term negotiations for an exclusive right by EA to produce ALL SW IP games moving forward. In which case it would in fact be LucasArts decision to not accept renewal so as to not pollute the larger deal they had in play.

 

Note: yes.. it was Disney that actually announced the exclusive agreement with EA.. but let's get real here.. these types of deals take months and months to negotiate... so clearly it was part of Lucas building sale value for his asset sale to Disney. Don't believe me? check what insiders are saying now publicly about the actions inside LucasArts on freezing hires, shutting down projects, etc, etc, in the months leading up to the Disney deal.

[EmperorLupey]

Here's the nice thing about objective analysis........ you take a known data point and then you take additional data points available to you.. sometimes from the same source, sometimes from different sources... and you create an assessment of the current.

 

[this is actually what the person at mmodata does. Do you know why he does not report new data on SWTOR? Because his main objective is to report subscriptions in MMOs... and since SWTOR is no longer a pure subscription MMO.. he refuses to report data on it. In other words.. even in his own analytical norm.. he is biased against MMOs that are not subscription MMOs, by refusing to report on them any more.]

 

Now.. on to an objective assessment using multiple sources of credible data (ie: mmodata and EA directly):

 

EA reaffirmed in it's most recent quarterly earnings calls that the game continues to progress upward both in terms of commercial contribution to their bottom line as well as overall state of the game and player base. In other words.. even to the simply layman.... sounds game is stable and growing modestly... as opposed to forum mythology that it is crashing and doomed.

 

Let me give you a grade school analogy to assist you:

 

 

There is a difference between actually wanting to figure out reality VS wanting to spread fear, doom, and uncertainty. Stop trying to spread blight about the game at your every opportunity IMO.

 

I am in no way trying to fudge numbers, or biased towards any target. I am citing trusted information. If you have a comparative number review to bare as witness I would be thrilled to see it. I enjoy numbers, and debate. I do not enjoy misinformation, and flawed statistical analysis. If I had a more up to date listing I would gladly provide it. If anyone for that matter does please add it as evidence towards the case.

I do not have personal investment towards either side of the argument here. If the numbers are higher, or lower it makes literal no difference to me besides that we can lay the matter to rest.

[Andryah]

Yes EVE took that position during spring of this year. It was something like big news at the time.

 

/Agree.

 

Though nuance is important in these discussion when talking about actual player activity. A large number of EVE players run multiple accounts (which they fund by buying PLEX off the open market in game). There are very sound reasons for doing this in a game like EVE.. and kudos to the devs for that IMO. So.. from a strictly business perspective.. they appear to be number 2... but business is about revenue and I would venture that the success of the CM in SWTOR makes them actually number 2.

 

And while we are at it on nuance..... a lot of SWG players also ran multiple accounts.

 

WHAT REALLY MATTERS for players is not absolute number of paid (or active) accounts. What matters is whether the majority of open servers are active and healthy AND is your server(s) you play on active and healthy population wise? All the rest is just the normal gaming forum epeen festing.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Andryah

[StarMagus]

Though nuance is important in these discussion when talking about actual player activity. A large number of EVE players run multiple accounts (which they fund by buying PLEX off the open market in game). So.. from a strictly business perspective.. they appear to be number 2... but business is about revenue and I would venture that the success of the CM in SWTOR makes them actually number 2.

 

Which Eve can counter with their pay an additional $15-20 a month and you can train 2 characters on one account. That seemed to be a huge deal for the player base and is probably as much of an income to them as the CM market is for SWTOR.