tunewalker Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) No in the Galactic Alliance Navy the Republic and Nebula class ships were considered advanced the Viscounts, Mediators and Majestic vessels were either a few decades old or base of the line, just because they are good ships does not make them advanced. The Majestic Class was considered advanced because of its highly advanced shields and targeting computers allowing it to take on ships much larger then it had business taking on. Also The Mediator and the Viscounts were the most up to date technology on Mon Cal designs and were still massively better then either the republic or the Nebula of which would be the equivlant to your Palleon and Imperious. All of our ships were call "advanced" just like the IMperial-class SD was called "advanced" yet they were still seen all over the place. When you have "advanced" ships in the numbers that we have they aren't truly "advanced" any more they are the norm of the day. At the end of this whole thing we still even out in fire power because you outnumber me but I have Dreadnaughts and Mini-dreadnaughts to even the odds. Edit: proof of the Majestic being considered advanced. "Majestic-class heavy cruisers were incredibly durable; their thick armor and shields were equal to the previous generation of Imperial-class Star Destroyers. This armor and shield power gave them the ability to close with the enemy to exchange close-range fire. Like other New Class ships, the Majestic also boasts superior fire control systems compared to contemporary Imperial ships with heavy guns of the same power. With this ability, the Majestic can score as many hits at long range as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer can at medium ranges and can remain at that range as long as it has space to evade the Imperial ship.[1] " Remember this is a heavy cruiser not a stardestroyer it is smaller then the Victory was. Edited October 11, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Now lets talk tactics..... Rayla claimed that because her commanders are 100 years newer they will know my tactics and all of the counters...... but this is like saying because my average captain is 3000 years newer they will be able to out Maneuver Revan even if they never fought an opponent like Revan this is simply not true. Gorrilla warfare has been used through out history yet its still effective today Also as Rayla has once said herself some people are better at fighting one type of war then others. We have to examine the way each one fought their battles to determine the tactical advantage. Sorry but no this is simply not true me point is not about timeline, it is about the fact that my navy knows everything your's does and beat them with exactly that, my navy has more advanced doctrines and tactics than your's does, they are the successors to your own tactics, this is nothing to do with being further in the future, that isnt what I am saying at all, the Fel Empire's navy has been there, done that and won once before against exactly those tactics. The main thing we have to ask is how Vunerable is the Fel Empire to these 2 tactics....... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ackbar_Slash http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trench_Run_Defense The first I want to talk about is the Ackbar Slash. Normally I would say they would know about this but the enemy the were fighting largly used http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MC140_Scythe-class_main_battle_cruiser and utilized swarm tactics. Tactics that obviously did not work against an opponent of relative same strength. Further more because of the design of the MC140 it made impossible for the galactic alliance to utilize a tactic like the ackbar slash and made it nearly as impractical to utilize such a tactic against one as if it just has its front facing you, you are missing out on reducing the number of weapons its using part of the ackbar slash thus making the Ackbar slash largly ineffective against the MC140's. It would take an extremely Eccentric Captain/Admiral to have enough knowledge to know how to counter a tactic that his enemy was not even capable of using Captains you don't have as you (like me) only have the average captain simply put none of them will know how to counter this maneuver. The tactics utilized at that time would have all been about taking advantage of the advantages and disadvantages of the MC140 which none of my ships share the weakness of. The second we need to look at is the Trench Run Defense. Most of my enemy ships are these. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pellaeon-class_Star_Destroyer Which were larger then the imperial-class, that were often prey to this tactic, and lacked Point defense systems. So we definitely have a ship vunerable to a tactic utilized by the rebel Alliance. For the reasons shown here I believe I retain a tactical advantage as my enemy has never dealt with ships Capable of preforming the primary tactic of my forces and they have ships that would prove vunerable to a second of my primary tactics. The Ackbar slash would work..... if my navy wasn't all about attack, attack, swarm, not to mention that forcing anything in requires one thing: endurance, whilst you are facing an armada of mini-SSDs, I am not convinced the tactic would work with the sheer weight of firepower every one of my ships has. You are also forgetting that the trench run disease won't work, because my escort frigates all have point-defense lasers, any incoming fighters get ripped to pieces. Add to that the fact that there aren't any trenches to run on the Pallaeon it was a sleeker sloped design where anything coming in gets blown to pieces by a wall of fire. Not to mention the TIE Predators and Fury-class Starfighters are both made and designed for dogfighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Announcement: Natasi daala is dead! The traitor's head now decorates the emperor's throne! All welcome the new member of the Empire of Krayt's Vision: Ysanne Isard! PS: Would love to keep debating but I have a football(soccer) cup game soon, Aurbere, time to fill in! Edited October 11, 2013 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Sorry but no this is simply not true me point is not about timeline, it is about the fact that my navy knows everything your's does and beat them with exactly that, my navy has more advanced doctrines and tactics than your's does, they are the successors to your own tactics, this is nothing to do with being further in the future, that isnt what I am saying at all, the Fel Empire's navy has been there, done that and won once before against exactly those tactics. The Ackbar slash would work..... if my navy wasn't all about attack, attack, swarm, not to mention that forcing anything in requires one thing: endurance, whilst you are facing an armada of mini-SSDs, I am not convinced the tactic would work with the sheer weight of firepower every one of my ships has. You are also forgetting that the trench run disease won't work, because my escort frigates all have point-defense lasers, any incoming fighters get ripped to pieces. Add to that the fact that there aren't any trenches to run on the Pallaeon it was a sleeker sloped design where anything coming in gets blown to pieces by a wall of fire. Not to mention the TIE Predators and Fury-class Starfighters are both made and designed for dogfighting. There is no reason why your fleet would no everything mine would like I already said your fleet was fighting a completely different enemy using completely different tactics because of the capabilities of that enemies primary ship was unlike the ones that I will be using. The idea that your fleet knows everything mine does speculative and the primary maneuver of my fleet was impossible for their enemy to preform. knowing a counter to a tactic neither side preformed and one side COULDNT preform is illogical and highly unlikely. Its been over 100 years by this point its old enough to be new again and like I said there has been war tactics that never go out of style no matter how old it is. All in all you don't use the same tactics. You mean the ackbar slash wont work on you because your fleet was all about doing the exact same thing the GCW empire fleet did (attack, attack, swarm) and it never worked on them with all the weight of their fire power...... oh wait..... that was exactly why it did work. You just pretty much said it wont work against you for the exact same reason it DID work against the GCW empire and this is a case where you have less of a firepower and numerical advantage to the point of being moot by comparison. You are correct about the trench disease but if you lose your frigates its still highly succeptible to it, as far as fighters go..... if you look at the difference between the number of ships a Nebula and Imperious carry you will see I likely out number you in fighters also again we have to talk about era here. The best fighters of your era Krayt didn't want to use because he considered them to good. While my people always used the best available to them so fighter to fighter wise we again should be about even. Having fighters also didn't stop the Trench run tactic from working as all they needed to do was deliver the blow and it was done they weren't about winning the fighter to fighter battle they were about wiping out the bigger targets and ships. Edited October 11, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Announcement: Natasi daala is dead! The traitor's head now decorates the emperor's throne! All welcome the new member of the Empire of Krayt's Vision: Ysanne Isard! PS: Would love to keep debating but I have a football(soccer) cup game soon, Aurbere, time to fill in! oh...... Bacta war..... Wedge...... 1 squad.... why Isard when I have Wedge why would you do this to yourself? It took her weeks to pull out a single victory against Wedge and his 1 squad and that victory wasn't even Sanctioned by her. She failed in every respect against Wedge losing the Lunsakya and several other ships to a ragtag squad with no support from the New republic. You might have been better off with Daala. I await the reasoning for this. Edited October 11, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 oh...... Bacta war..... Wedge...... 1 squad.... why Isard when I have Wedge why would you do this to yourself? It took her weeks to pull out a single victory against Wedge and his 1 squad and that victory wasn't even Sanctioned by her. She failed in every respect against Wedge losing the Lunsakya and several other ships to a ragtag squad with no support from the New republic. You might have been better off with Daala. I await the reasoning for this. I am curious as well. Anyway, I'll leave Rayla to counter your previous post while I think of some other points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Krayt's Vision ally makeup has changed from Darth Talon & Natasi Daala to Darth Talon and Ysanne Isard. Edited October 11, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The Dark Imperium's ally makeup has changed from Darth Talon & Natasi Daala to Darth Talon and Ysanne Isard. Oh I hope not. I want Maul and HK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Oh I hope not. I want Maul and HK!!! He is altering the deal! Pray he doesn't alter it any further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 He is altering the deal! Pray he doesn't alter it any further! Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Oh I hope not. I want Maul and HK!!!Wooopsie daisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 He is altering the deal! Pray he doesn't alter it any further!Impressive, most impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 oh...... Bacta war..... Wedge...... 1 squad.... why Isard when I have Wedge why would you do this to yourself? It took her weeks to pull out a single victory against Wedge and his 1 squad and that victory wasn't even Sanctioned by her. She failed in every respect against Wedge losing the Lunsakya and several other ships to a ragtag squad with no support from the New republic. You might have been better off with Daala. I await the reasoning for this. *facepalm* do you seriously think she will be leading a war effort? she is an ally not the second-in-command, Wedge has Pallaeon to deal with, Isard is going to be doing something COMPLETELY different. Anyone who knows Isard well knows what she is best at and that is certainly not leading anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 You mean the ackbar slash wont work on you because your fleet was all about doing the exact same thing the GCW empire fleet did (attack, attack, swarm) and it never worked on them with all the weight of their fire power...... oh wait..... that was exactly why it did work. You just pretty much said it wont work against you for the exact same reason it DID work against the GCW empire and this is a case where you have less of a firepower and numerical advantage to the point of being moot by comparison. Erm no, the Empire went in with a tight blockade and used the Tarkin Doctrine, what the Fel Empire used was an arrowhead attack, it would fan out it's ships in a triangular formation with fast frigates darting in and out with TIE Predators swarming over ships that got envelepod in what was essentially a pyramidacally pointed assualt, that is why the Galactic Alliance Navy lost, because the Imperials finally figured out how to use the Star Destroyer's main advantages in design properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 *facepalm* do you seriously think she will be leading a war effort? she is an ally not the second-in-command, Wedge has Pallaeon to deal with, Isard is going to be doing something COMPLETELY different. Anyone who knows Isard well knows what she is best at and that is certainly not leading anything. Not sure giving her Isard was a great Idea Beni... She's perfect to counter the strategy Tunewalker's been working on, the incursion tactic... Being the Director of Imperial intelligence she's sort of got the spy thing down >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Not sure giving her Isard was a great Idea Beni... She's perfect to counter the strategy Tunewalker's been working on, the incursion tactic... Being the Director of Imperial intelligence she's sort of got the spy thing down >.> Yeh after the obvious flaw exploited in my last Kaggath I wanted someone to fill in the metaphorical hole, that person was Ysanne Isard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yeh after the obvious flaw exploited in my last Kaggath I wanted someone to fill in the metaphorical hole, that person was Ysanne Isard. She could still be used as a defector, but more an engineering Krayts downfall type person.. Wanting control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Not sure giving her Isard was a great Idea Beni... She's perfect to counter the strategy Tunewalker's been working on, the incursion tactic... Being the Director of Imperial intelligence she's sort of got the spy thing down >.>I wasn't aware it was my job to sabotage Rayla's efforts to win... Isard's position conforms to the rules, she's in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 She could still be used as a defector, but more an engineering Krayts downfall type person.. Wanting control. She was totally loyal to an Emperor, she had full loyalty to the idea of order in the galaxy from one man's vision, Krayt fits that perfectly as well as her love of chemical and biological warfare *hint hint* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Sorry but no this is simply not true me point is not about timeline, it is about the fact that my navy knows everything your's does and beat them with exactly that, my navy has more advanced doctrines and tactics than your's does, they are the successors to your own tactics, this is nothing to do with being further in the future, that isnt what I am saying at all, the Fel Empire's navy has been there, done that and won once before against exactly those tactics.I believe the word your looking for is experience. Regardless these fleets are quite equally matched in a lot of ways both in terms of firepower and tactical ability - so I expect space battles will be primarily determined by the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I wasn't aware it was my job to sabotage Rayla's efforts to win... Isard's position conforms to the rules, she's in. Wouldnt really be sabotaging her... Just a bit unfortunate for Tune :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 She was totally loyal to an Emperor, she had full loyalty to the idea of order in the galaxy from one man's vision, Krayt fits that perfectly as well as her love of chemical and biological warfare *hint hint* Perhaps. Because Palpatine's spot would never go to her... She did however try take the Grand Vizier down if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yeh after the obvious flaw exploited in my last Kaggath I wanted someone to fill in the metaphorical hole, that person was Ysanne Isard. Wish I would be allowed to do the same. Apparently my faction's name is cause for Garm's defection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I believe the word your looking for is experience. Regardless these fleets are quite equally matched in a lot of ways both in terms of firepower and tactical ability - so I expect space battles will be primarily determined by the environment. Honestly i was thinking that as well, luckily Pallaeon is as good as it gets on the defence and he often fought out-numbered and turned obvious losses into drawn out sieges or wars of attrition, this is supplemented nicely by the fact that I am sat in the deep core, he'll have a field day defending my worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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