Kaggath Tournament - Alliance of Worlds vs Krayt's Vision

[Selenial]

I think the almost 30 imperious-class Star Destroyers, which were basically mini-Super Star Destroyers makes up for a large number of Dreadnoughts.

 

Universal Tech Level. They were the Imperial 2's of their day, so that should be how good they are. Either way, the GADF has the schematics for them too.

[Beniboybling]

I think the almost 30 imperious-class Star Destroyers, which were basically mini-Super Star Destroyers makes up for a large number of Dreadnoughts.

Remember to apply the deductions. That's 3 ISDs and 1 Viscount (nope, we aren't going to have quarters )

[LadyKulvax]

Why? What use will ships and soldiers be when dealing with a virus?

 

The situation can be completely ignored if need be.

 

It is deeply rooted in their nature to help the civilians, do remember the type of people we are talking about here.

 

Also as I said, it is a distraction, which the AoW will expect, when the attacks come out of foerost they will assume that was the attempt, yet it will be just one more distraction supplanting a distraction.

[tunewalker]

I think the almost 30 imperious-class Star Destroyers, which were basically mini-Super Star Destroyers makes up for a large number of Dreadnoughts.

 

we have already covered that these things by rules of the Tech rules make them on par with the Nebula's...... Again rayla you do not outgun me.... you do not have better tactitians then me and you do not have faster ships then me.

[LadyKulvax]

Universal Tech Level. They were the Imperial 2's of their day, so that should be how good they are. Either way, the GADF has the schematics for them too.

 

I wish people would stop reverting to a wookieepedia quote to discount the fact that they were designed to specifically replace the larger size dreadnoughts.

[tunewalker]

No cannons. End of story. You get vehicles and transports. This rule has been upheld since the very beginning of the Kaggath and I do not plan on changing it. So enough with these claims of biased.

 

And for the record the cannons you pointed to are no more affliated to the Alliance Army than a hypervelocity cannon is to the 501st. You cannot exploit the fact that Wookiee chose to display them on the same page. In the end, they were weapons employed by the Rebel Alliance, just like the hypervelocity cannon was a weapon employed by the Empire. Having access to ground forces of either party does not mean you can use them

 

If you feel I am going back on previous comments then please indicate where I said cannons would be permitted. Because I never recall saying you would have "all the bells and whistles" and certainly not in this sense.

 

"During the Galactic Civil War, the Alliance to Restore the Republic came in possession of several v-150s, placing them at the most important of bases. The secret Echo Base on the ice world of Hoth was defended by a v-150 and, during the Battle of Hoth in 3 ABY, was instrumental in helping many of the base's GR-75 medium transports to escape through the Imperial blockade of the planet. "

 

Oh if we want to talk about rules "upheld since the beginning of the Kaggath" does this mean Rayla now has GCW captains and Admirals because those were rules upheld since the beginning of the Kaggath or does this just apply to me.....

[Selenial]

I wish people would stop reverting to a wookieepedia quote to discount the fact that they were designed to specifically replace the larger size dreadnoughts.

 

I wasn't using a Wookieepedia Quote.

 

I haven't even looked at the Wookiee page for that ship, but now you say that... Wonder if it has a source *runs off to Wookieepedia*

[LadyKulvax]

Let me put it this way, just because it states on a wookiee page that the Imperious was to the Pallaeon what the Imperial-II was to the Imperial-I does NOT mean they were standard Star Destroyers they were much bigger and they were designed to bridge the gap between a Star Destroyer and a Super Star Destroyer.

 

Would people please stop saying they were just the Imperial-IIs of their day because that is flatly false.

 

Does anyone understand why this is frustrating me? it's like stating that the the Viscount was just the MC90 Star Cruiser of it's day.

Edited October 13, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

please give me some time to get all my plans sorted out I will post a few scenarios I just need time to get my head on straight..... and pray no more royal decrees come to hit me in the face cus at this point I have no idea when the next one is coming.

[Selenial]

Would people please stop saying they were just the Imperial-IIs of their day because that is flatly false.

 

How? They were used as the Capital ships, just because they were more powerful than anything the enemy had does not mean they were not the standard for that faction.

 

The Imperials were far better than anything the Rebel Alliance had, for a while, does not mean they were not the standard.

[tunewalker]

Let me put it this way, just because it states on a wookiee page that the Imperious was to the Pallaeon what the Imperial-II was to the Imperial-I does NOT mean they were standard Star Destroyers they were much bigger and they were designed to bridge the gap between a Star Destroyer and a Super Star Destroyer.

 

Would people please stop saying they were just the Imperial-IIs of their day because that is flatly false.

 

its not the reason we have been saying it. We are saying it because the capacity in which they were used and the role they filled was the exact same as the roles the old Imperial ships held in that day. Your ships are 100 years newer so they are advanced..... my ships were considered advanced for their time as well we went over this when it comes to firepower we are even.... when it comes to tactics (thanks to the ref helping you out and changing the rules that were established at the start of the Kaggath) we are even, when it comes to hyperspace travel we are even.

 

 

Edit: ok hopefully I can now focus on my 3 scenarios on killing Krayt..... who knows their might be more after this.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

"During the Galactic Civil War, the Alliance to Restore the Republic came in possession of several v-150s, placing them at the most important of bases. The secret Echo Base on the ice world of Hoth was defended by a v-150 and, during the Battle of Hoth in 3 ABY, was instrumental in helping many of the base's GR-75 medium transports to escape through the Imperial blockade of the planet. "

 

Oh if we want to talk about rules "upheld since the beginning of the Kaggath" does this mean Rayla now has GCW captains and Admirals because those were rules upheld since the beginning of the Kaggath or does this just apply to me.....

Tune, they are cannons. You don't get cannons. That is the long and short of it. And given that during the Galactic Civil War the Galactic Empire came into possession of several hypervelocity guns, placing them at the the most important of bases - they would have to be allowed to. Along with any other cannons employed by everyone else's factions, and shield generators for that matter. But this is against the rules. And I am not about to change that rule out of pity.

 

On the other hand, the changes made to Rayla's faction has not broken the rules. A single ally change for the losers was allowed, and the GCW naval forces is acceptable because they are afflitated with the Imperial ground force.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

I am not stating that they are just better, I am stating something completely bloody different, it isn't about time or advanced tech it is about the size and class of the ship, so because the Executor was used as command ships it was the same as the Chimaera?

 

The Pallaeons and the Imperious classes are not merely the Imperial-classes of their day, they were meant to combine the advantages of the older imperial ships together.

 

Now i am going to take a few hours break, this debate is going down a nasty road and need some relaxation, stress is not good for me right now.

Edited October 13, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

please give me some time to get all my plans sorted out I will post a few scenarios I just need time to get my head on straight..... and pray no more royal decrees come to hit me in the face cus at this point I have no idea when the next one is coming.

I advise you refamiliarise yourself with the rules first.

[tunewalker]

OK so lets begin this the way the first scenario will go down....... While your ships are setting up the intradiction fields I attack Foerost with most of my fleet.

 

Pallaeon is ready for this and Wedge knows it the battle is 120 KV Cruisers and Destroyers vs 110 AoW Cruisers and destroyer with Viscounts thrown in.

 

A few of my stealth capable Corvettes break off and pretend to be debree.

 

 

Pallaeon has a record of winning against Wedge in a space battle at a rate of 52% to 48%. So the number of ships lost for Pallaeon is 57 and a damaged ship and for wedge its also 57 and a damaged ship (even fire power but the KV has more ships thus the loss to ships does not equal a loss of fire power this is still a losing situation for Wedge as the fire power advantage is swinging more and more in Pallaeon's favor.)

 

 

Thanks to a 6000 Spec force Marines boarding enemy Vessels and because the 501st are busy dealing with 20k rebel troops landed on the surface (a tough fight that the 5k 501st on the ground need to try hard to win but they do only losing 2k of their own troops in the process showing the elite skills of the 501st against greater firepower and numbers) the Spec forces are greatly successful and capture 20 of the enemy ships turning the tide of the battle in Wedges favor and allowing him to push the KV out of Foerost...... If the Spec forces are only moderately successful then they capture 10 enemy ships and it is still enough to turn the tide of the battle and force Pallaeon to retreat. If they have great difficulty and only manage to capture 5 enemy ships the break in the enemy line allows Wedge and crew to escape as he does not want to risk reinforcements arriving and needs to take his leave thanks to the stolen ships over all losses are

 

KV: 62 and a damaged ship

AoW: 52 and a damaged ship.

 

Wedge pulling back prepares for a counter strike from his enemy and special Forces and special operations members land on the surface and some begin to take cargo ships into deeper into enemy territory others stay where they are and get prepared to hit prime targets. Still others are creating tracks for the enemy to follow and gathering info on the enemy plans (could find out about the virus and thus have http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rylca purchased off the black market and spread before the virus even hits the news that the KV tried this causes more people to flock to my cause). As well as spreading information to the KV that there is a secret moon base at Brentaal IV in which Wedge and the Rebels are building a super weapon to wipe out the KV and that Leia is their overseeing the project as well as some of the damaged ships from the last battle. This news is mostly true and news of this sort has been used by Wedge on more then 1 occasion and it has tricked BOTH Pallaeon and Isard before. Because of this they are forced to attack sending 80 ships to hit Brentaal, but of course its a trap they get pincered in by 80 rebel ships and the ships they believed in-operational have in fact been repaired. A pincer attack can defeat an enemy that outnumbers you as much as 3:1 and in this case (thanks to the stolen ships) my forces outgun Rayla's.

 

When this trap is sprung the Infiltrator units that managed to get inside the KV by means of cargo ship now spring their plan having sliced into the factories and changed the droids programming all the newly built KV droids go nuts and start attacking the older models, as well as having several of the Factories blow up. Some Infiltrators are able to get their hands on an AT-AT recently built in a vehicle factory before it to is blown up. With Pallaeon away and this ongoing the remaining ships of the KV have to respond to these and stop any more damage caused by the rebels drawing the last of the fleet away from Foerost. (note that it only takes one of these rebel plans and it will still draw the fleet from Foerost)

 

This allows the Rebels at Foerost to hit the shipyards and capture the partially repair and partially built ships and load them with explosives.

 

Pallaeon realizing its all been a trap manages to escape but just barely limping back to his home with just 30 ships left after my own forces only losing 20 ( Wedge vs Pallaeon when Wedge is on the defensive and Pallaeon is on the offensive is likely closer to 60% win for Wedge 40% for Pallaeon but because of the trap sprung and the fact that Pallaeon was outgunned here along with Leia's battle meditation adding to the confussion Pallaeons losses are devistating).

 

When he returns he surprised as his ships are pulled out of hyperspace early by the stolen damaged and half built ships and sees them hurtling straight towards his fleet. thanks to the explosives set up inside in addition to the ramming the destructions is wide and catastrophic destroying half of Pallaeon's remaining fleet.

 

 

Meanwhile the Ships that responded to the Factory attacks are finding their enemy hard to find as a few sneak aboard their shuttle craft and get aboard the enemy ships (something Special forces and Special ops members have done in the past) Some are successful in commendeering the vessels completely with the help of http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gun_of_Command from hapes. And head straight for Byss to attack Krayt directly.

 

Wedge knowing his trap has worked wont let the momentum die and hits Pallaeon while he is helpless and still recovering from the confussion of his own ships ramming him and of course Leia's battle meditation again adding to the confusion wiping out the remainder of Pallaeon's forces.

 

On Byss the Infiltrators that made it and are trying to attack have found themselves having bit off WAY more then they can chew as the infiltrators that didn't make it means that around 10 Imperial ships drop right on top of them and the 1000 commando unit protecting Krayt and Darth talon are all incredibly skilled and outnumber and outgun them these infiltrators are quickly eradicated with little to no damage being done to the defenses of Byss.

 

Wedge wanting to finish the job of course will head straight for Byss and with 60 Warships still left in this particular fleet and Leia's battle meditation and more then 30,000 rebel troops and special forces Krayt and his commando's find themselves overwhelmed by numbers of the ground forces.

 

 

That is one scenario of which ends successfully for me in 3 different ways. If the Spec force Marines do really well I take the space advanatage immediately. If they do Moderately well I still take that advantage Immediately, If they flub and do only ok I still manage to escape and set up for the next trap a trap both of your people commanding your forces have fallen for.You don't get time to use the videos against me because within hours of the confussion caused by droids turning and factories exploding the Kaggath is over.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Tune, they are cannons. You don't get cannons. That is the long and short of it. And given that during the Galactic Civil War the Galactic Empire came into possession of several hypervelocity guns, placing them at the the most important of bases - they would have to be allowed to. Along with any other cannons employed by everyone else's factions, and shield generators for that matter. But this is against the rules. And I am not about to change that rule out of pity.

 

On the other hand, the changes made to Rayla's faction has not broken the rules. A single ally change for the losers was allowed, and the GCW naval forces is acceptable because they are afflitated with the Imperial ground force.

 

THey don't have the GCW Naval forces they have the FEL EMPIRE Naval forces... if they have the GCW Naval forces then I have the advantage and I wouldn't be complaining at all. Giving them the Fel Empire Naval forces was the change in rules..... you don't even remember all the changes you made.

 

Edit: beni check post #91 Rayla asked for and was allowed Fell Empire pilots and Captains rather then being forced to stick with GCW pilots and Captains. If she was force to stick with the GCW captains then the Rebels would have a clear advantage in Naval tactics. In which case the scenario above swings more so in my favor.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[LadyKulvax]

All of that has completely missed out on the idea of a multi-tiered blockade and the effectiveness of the probe droids scanning through the debris fields in the first place for lifesigns.

[tunewalker]

All of that has completely missed out on the idea of a multi-tiered blockade and the effectiveness of the probe droids scanning through the debris fields in the first place for lifesigns.

 

stealth ships probes cant find crap and to busy cleaning up the debree to care......... Blockades just mean more forces taken away from your main fleet meaning all of my attacks are MORE effective hell the beginning line talks about ships being away to set up the blockade.......do you guys even read it all the way through...... Blockades of a couples ships here and there aren't going to matter when you end up being outnumbered 6:1 thanks to the rest of your fleet being decimated so none of it matters.

 

Seriously broken record at this point I swear like blockades are an I win button

 

 

Edit: now I am becoming a bit of a dick..... I need to step away for a while I am sorry guys. I will cover the other scenarios later but for now I am going to step away from this and come back when I am less of a jerk.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[LadyKulvax]

stealth ships probes cant find crap and to busy cleaning up the debree to care......... Blockades just mean more forces taken away from your main fleet meaning all of my attacks are MORE effective. Blockades of a couples ships here and there aren't going to matter when you end up being outnumbered 6:1 thanks to the rest of your fleet being decimated so none of it matters.

 

Seriously broken record at this point I swear like blockades are an I win button

 

I don't think you have any idea of how effective these droids are, the HK Probots are designed for exactly that type of thing to scan fields, etc.... to find insurgents, infiltrators and the like, a Stygium Cloaking Device is not infallible by any measure.

 

Also the entire idea of a multi-tiered blockade system is that sections that fall can immediately be supplanted by rear-guard, you also need to think of what engaging a blockade means, you are facing a wall of firepower, a very very deep wall which essentially becomes a death trap that anything that breaks into it just gets focused down by the next line of defence.

 

The chances of your ships taking heavy damage is far far higher than the chances of mine, i don't need to attack, i can camp and pull out damaged ships and immediately replace them with more.

 

Anyway, i am not at a mental capacity at the moment to be the central argument for a debate at the moment, I could do with Aurbere or some such filling in for me right now, I will try to be back in the game tonight, I just cant argue very effectively at the moment, i am noticing forgetting things that I wouldnt normally be.

Edited October 13, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

I don't think you have any idea of how effective these droids are, the HK Probots are designed for exactly that type of thing to scan fields, etc.... to find insurgents, infiltrators and the like, a Stygium Cloaking Device is not infallible by any measure.

 

Also the entire idea of a multi-tiered blockade system is that sections that fall can immediately be supplanted by rear-guard, you also need to think of what engaging a blockade means, you are facing a wall of firepower, a very very deep wall which essentially becomes a death trap that anything that breaks into it just gets focused down by the next line of defence.

 

The chances of your ships taking heavy damage is far far higher than the chances of mine, i don't need to attack, i can camp and pull out damaged ships and immediately replace them with more.

 

Anyway, i am not at a mental capacity at the moment to be the central argument for a debate at the moment, I could do with Aurbere or some such filling in for me right now, I will try to be back in the game tonight, I just cant argue very effectively at the moment.

 

Your forces will be attacking..... seriously you didn't read the scenario at all if you think your forces aren't going to attack. When you come back be sure to actually read the scenario and come with counters. I understand the purpose of a blockade its why my forces will pull yours out or if Pallaeon is forced to retreat I can just keep pushing further and further back little by little as once he has lost the momentum and lost the shipyards its really hard to turn the battle around even with blockades. Nothing of what you are saying in any way shape or form counters my arguments.

 

 

Edit: also beni is Rayla getting to keep the Fel Empire captains and Admirals or does she have (as you recently suggested) the GCW captains and admirals because if she has the Later I have a tactical advantage. If she has the former then that is the rule change I am talking about that is kind of Bull crap.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[LadyKulvax]

Your forces will be attacking..... seriously you didn't read the scenario at all if you think your forces aren't going to attack. When you come back be sure to actually read the scenario and come with counters. I understand the purpose of a blockade its why my forces will pull yours out or if Pallaeon is forced to retreat I can just keep pushing further and further back little by little. Nothing of what you are saying in any way shape or form counters my arguments.

 

Why are you being so confrontational? it's this type of tone that makes me want to just give up altogether, if people are going to start basically fighting over who wins a Kaggath I dont want any part of it.

 

I was debating one part of your scenario and was going to carry on, but i keep forgetting things sorry for being pregnant jesus h christ.

[tunewalker]

Why are you being so confrontational? it's this type of tone that makes me want to just give up altogether, if people are going to start basically fighting over who wins a Kaggath I dont want any part of it.

 

I was debating one part of your scenario and was going to carry on, but i keep forgetting things sorry for being pregnant jesus h christ.

 

I didn't think that was confrontational I am sorry I just have had a habit of running into debates here where only portions get read and the most important parts are skipped over. I am still hazy as to which part of my scenario you were actually debating because the blockade doesn't do anything for most of it. That's why I keep saying it doesn't have much to do with the scenario itself because the blockade doesn't effect any of it. I am sorry if I keep coming off as hostile but it wasn't supposed to there.

[tunewalker]

Also a more solid arguemtent to the probes finding the Stealthed ships. By the time they find them I will have already landed Spec-ops and Spec-forces members as there will be a lot of debree. By this time some of them may have already been caught so the KV already know they have infiltrators, but they have no way of knowing how many or where so it ultimately doesn't matter.

 

 

Ok going to take a break from this be back in a few hours......

 

 

Edit: still waiting on that confirmation. Does the KV have Fel Empire pilots like was assumed back at post 91. or do they have the GCW pilots like has been the rules since the start of the Kaggath.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I'm going to be pretty busy today, so I won't be of much help at the moment. Sorry Rayla

[tunewalker]

I advise you refamiliarise yourself with the rules first.

 

Beni still waiting for your response does the KV have the GCW Pilots and captains like the rules say they should and like the rules have said they should since the start of the Kaggath or are they going to be allowed the Fel Empire pilots like YOU said they could have on post #88 and was confirmed by Rayla on Post #91 which is clear alteration and violation of the original rules set forth at the start of all of the Kaggath's or do I still not know the rules or how they have been changed in this Kaggath? Sorry if I am still coming off as a bit standoff-ish but posts like this are a pretty good reason as to why.