Kaggath Tournament - Dark Imperium vs Undying Brotherhood

[Selenial]

The dreaded in-laws! Tell us, how did you escape?

 

I have a scenario coming in for the Death of Malgus, inspired by Raylas analysis of his later life...

 

As for the Inlaws... Patience my friend...

[tunewalker]

It was turtles Beni a pair of them strapped to her feet.

[tunewalker]

Like to point out something the Acclamator and the Venerator are actually the Imperial II and the Galactic-class carrier of their day, or you can think of them as the Nebula-class and the Endurance-class of their day So ship to ship wise they should be about on par with one another. 1 to 1.

 

DId any one read this?

[Aurbere]

Well, perhaps they got the wrong book...

 

Quickly! Check page 22 of every Star Wars reference book ever published!

 

Wait! Scrap that! Go post the BattleZone!

 

I checked all of the relevant sourcebooks- nothing.

 

Patience!

[Selenial]

Disregard.

[Selenial]

Ok, Scenario time! This scenario involves Malgus staying in the Citadel until the time comes he deem a battle worthy of his attention (he doesn't want to take unnecessary risks)

 

Traya orders the 5 interdictors I start with to create a chokehold In the one exit from sith space. Malgus can't send forces round through the unknown regions because there's nothing to show he knows hyperspace routes out of that region.

 

Malgus' first fleet of 1000 sith warships that were sent to saleucami get torn apart, by smashing into each other from being ripped out of hyperspace, with the stragglers being finished off from the escort cruisers.

 

HK is sent by Maul to the Citadel, feigning allegiance to Malgus. Malgus, believing his old droid still follows him keeps him as a guard and plans to send him as an assassin at a later date...

 

Traya, Maul, and 8 of their Best Sith Assassins (Saber wielding) set off in Scimitars (designed by SFS) to Dromund Kaas to meet Malgus on the field of battle.

 

Maul is fitted with a a Stealth field Generator like the ones the Assassins use.

 

After the ships land, they set off on foot through the Jungle to the Citadel.

 

Traya uses her abilities in Beast Control (as does maul, having Been taught it by Traya) to lead the beasts along with them.

 

Each human stealthed (Traya with the force) awaits near the entrance to the Citadel as Traya orders her beasts to Attack.

 

The beasts rampage over to the gates and cause a commotion, through sheer numbers all guards nearby are sent to deal with them.

 

Traya and the Assassins slip through undetected.

 

They head for Malgus' throne room, but on the way Traya senses Vindicaa...

 

All of them Head for Vindicaa, she is patrolling a rear entrance alone.

 

Traya comes out of stealth and approaches her...

 

"You!" Vindicaa exclaims, startled.

"Yes..." Traya mutters, she unleashes a deadly force drain on Vindicaa, only enough to wound her.

Vindicaa falls to the floor gasping for breath feeling as if shed puke.

 

Traya begins to speak "You have had but a taste of my power. I have spared you for a reason. You will die, soon, under your false Empire. It is the way of things, soon another Warrior will rise, wishing the place at malgus' side. His shadow, his Wrath. You may swat aside one, or two, but soon enough one with enough cunning will come to claim what is Theirs through means that are either fair, or unfair. It matters not. Soon enough Malgus will let you die as surely as Dooku did, and he will replace you.

 

Take your place at my side young one, No longer shall hordes of sith or Jedi change the galaxy for good or ill. Only three, a Triumvirate, can rule. And it just so happens we have an opening...

 

Join me, or die..."

 

Vindicaa bows to her.

 

Traya restealths and briefs Vindicaa on the plan.

 

Vindicaa walks to the throne room, past the guards, and Demands she must see lord Malgus.

 

The Massassi at the gates let her in, and Traya and the Assassins slip in behind her.

 

Traya masks their presence so Malgus cannot detect them.

 

Vindicaa approaches Malgus, Malgus is flanked by 10 Massassi and 4 Sith.

 

Malgus demands to know why Vindicaa has disturbed him, but Vindicaa simply draws her blades.

 

Malgus roars at her foolhardiness, and sends his Massassi and Sith to kill her.

 

The Sith Assassins intercept them, one assassin per sith, with the other 4 taking on the Massassi. HK, having seen his old master again re activates his old protocols and joins the assassins in the fight.

 

Traya and Maul, along with Ventress, attack Malgus, putting up quite a fight.

 

The Assassins make quick work of the Sith and Massassi, simply drawing on Malgus to outclass them all.

 

The Assassins leave to deal with reinforcements charging through the throne room.

 

Traya unleashes a wild attack on Malgus along with Vindicaa, maul approaches from the rear. He slices at Malgus with Darksaber and Crimson blade.

 

Malgus kicks Maul back into the wall and Launches Vindicaa across the room with a force Push. He launches a frenzied attack on Traya, she cleverly employs Trakata.

 

She acts frail, feigning weakness, until Malgus knocks her saber out of her hand and slices at her.

 

She conceals herself and doges his blade, having feigned no agility Malgus believes she simply became one with the force.

 

With Vindicaa and Maul slowly getting up, he stows his lightsaber and is about to unleash a Maelstom. Right then, Traya unleashes a Massive force drain at him, he collapses on the floor.

 

He tries to call on his rage but he is devoid of the force, he can do nothing as Maul and Vindicaa charge at him, plunging 4 Saber blades into his torso at the same time.

 

100's of Massassi charge into the room with some Sith. Seeing their Master dead at the floor, they bow to Traya and devour the Unfaithful sith among them...

 

The Dark imperium is Victorious.

 

PS: Sorry for spelling mistakes - IPhone.

[Beniboybling]

It might be a little too soon for scenarios, I'd rather just some meaty arguments.

 

Regardless infiltration and assassination is certainly a possibility. However you forget that if Malgus is not on the frontlines, Vindicaa will have to be. And in reality he may not have full faith in her tactical ability and lead the charge himself - I'm still not convinced that Malgus will take a back seat. Especially if the battlefield demands his presence.

 

Regardless, with Vindicaa not present Traya will not be able to cause her to defect and therefore will be incapable of infiltrating the Citadel with anything other than force. A Citadel which will likely be protected by hundreds of Massassi and Sith, Traya simply in not capable of overwhelming such odds alone. She'll need military support.

 

Essentially the only way she can successfully breach Malgus' throne room is via a full on invasion.

 

And concerning HK-47 - you'd think Malgus would be a little suspicious is HK just showed up and swore loyalty to him. He'd most likely have the droids memory wiped and have it reprogrammed so it really would serve him.

[Selenial]

It might be a little too soon for scenarios, I'd rather just some meaty arguments.

 

Regardless infiltration and assassination is certainly a possibility. However you forget that if Malgus is not on the frontlines, Vindicaa will have to be. And in reality he may not have full faith in her tactical ability and lead the charge himself - I'm still not convinced that Malgus will take a back seat. Especially if the battlefield demands his presence.

 

Regardless, with Vindicaa not present Traya will not be able to cause her to defect and therefore will be incapable of infiltrating the Citadel with anything other than force. A Citadel which will likely be protected by hundreds of Massassi and Sith, Traya simply in not capable of overwhelming such odds alone. She'll need military support.

 

Essentially the only way she can successfully breach Malgus' throne room is via a full on invasion.

 

And concerning HK-47 - you'd think Malgus would be a little suspicious is HK just showed up and swore loyalty to him. He'd most likely have the droids memory wiped and have it reprogrammed so it really would serve him.

 

There are no frontlines until they find a way around the Blockade, so it's safe to presume they'll be there.

 

If not, they could make her defect in another battle, and have it look like she barely made it to DK alive.

 

If THAT isn't accepted, then Traya can still make it into the throne room with her followers, she says she can make herself and her actions not noticed in someone's mind, so opening the door would not be noticed by any outside guards, only Malgus.

 

Edit: As for HK, a memory wipe is what I want. It lulls Malgus into a false sense of Security.

 

HK has subroutines that bypass memory wipes, in case he was to fall into enemy hands. His old self returns to normal on sight of his true master, Traya.

 

He would know he was loyal to her until she walked in.

[LadyKulvax]

Traya orders the 5 interdictors I start with to create a chokehold In the one exit from sith space. Malgus can't send forces round through the unknown regions because there's nothing to show he knows hyperspace routes out of that region.

 

Wait what? it is CANON that he made different hyperspace routes through the unknown regions to other systems surrounding the Empire, that were previously unknown to them, he created what is called the north west corrider to make it easier for the Chiss Ascendancy to get around to Imperial Space, beforehand the Chiss refused to send any agents at all.

 

He knows his way in and out of the Horuset system and surrounding areas easily.

 

You are not going to be able to use the Thermopylae tactic, because the assumption that there is only one way in and out is blatantly incorrect.

[Selenial]

Wait what? it is CANON that he made different hyperspace routes through the unknown regions to other systems surrounding the Empire, that were previously unknown to them, he created what is called the north west corrider to make it easier for the Chiss Ascendancy to get around to Imperial Space, beforehand the Chiss refused to send any agents at all.

 

He knows his way in and out of the Horuset system and surrounding areas easily.

 

You are not going to be able to use the Thermopylaa tactic, because the assumption that there is only one way in and out is blatantly incorrect.

 

Uhh, I said I've never heard of a source saying he knows routes out of the unknown regions into other space.

 

Even if he did, I'd be faster to DK than he could be to any of my systems.

[LadyKulvax]

Uhh, I said I've never heard of a source saying he knows routes out of the unknown regions into other space.

 

Even if he did, I'd be faster to DK than he could be to any of my systems.

 

He mapped the unknown regions and conquered large territories previously unknown to the galaxy, he focused into the north to make it easier to go around the inner rim and not get slammed hard by the Republic Navy.

 

Also you are assuming that Malgus is some idiotic Von Steiffel type that just goes wading into combat as fast as he can, he is an intelligent commander and highly skilled tactician.

 

He can spring pretty spectacular pincer movements as seen when he drove the Republic out, he is great at mounting strong defenses and is even more exceptional at making diversionary tactics and drawing away resources, using sheer weight of numbers to force defenders out of their holes to stop themselves from being surrounded, or so they believe, then he smashes them down with his Sith.

 

Malgus is a much better tactician than a lot of people see to be giving him any credit for, he was the Erwin Rommel of his time, using previously unheard of strategies that made the Dark Council believe he'd lost his head many times when in-fact he turned the inner rim campaigns from attrition into slow but steady victories.

[Selenial]

He mapped the unknown regions and conquered large territories previously unknown to the galaxy, he focused into the north to make it easier to go around the inner rim and not get slammed hard by the Republic Navy.

 

Also you are assuming that Malgus is some idiotic Von Steiffel type that just goes wading into combat as fast as he can, he is an intelligent commander and highly skilled tactician.

 

He can spring pretty spectacular pincer movements as seen when he drove the Republic out, he is great at mounting strong defenses and is even more exceptional at making diversionary tactics and drawing away resources, using sheer weight of numbers to force defenders out of their holes to stop themselves from being surrounded, or so they believe, then he smashes them down with his Sith.

 

Malgus is a much better tactician than a lot of people see to be giving him any credit for, he was the Erwin Rommel of his time, using previously unheard of strategies that made the Dark Council believe he'd lost his head many times when in-fact he turned the inner rim campaigns from attrition into slow but steady victories.

 

Youre completely missing the point.

 

WHERE is it shown that Malgus can leave the unknown regions into other areas of space (not sith space)

 

Also, there's nothing in my scenario any strategist could stop. Thrown himself couldn't see Traya coming.

[LadyKulvax]

Youre completely missing the point.

 

WHERE is it shown that Malgus can leave the unknown regions into other areas of space (not sith space).

It is made very very clear that Malgus went into the Unknown Regions mapping new territories and conquered large swathes of previous unknown territories and came back, if you want the source then here it is:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130810164349/http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/biographies/darth-malgus

 

Beyond that it is made clear in other sources that he mapped new regions in the north west corridor of the Empire to make it easier for the Chiss to move in and out of Imperial space.

[Selenial]

It is made very very clear that Malgus went into the Unknown Regions mapping new territories and conquered large swathes of previous unknown territories and came back, if you want the source then here it is:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130810164349/http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/biographies/darth-malgus

 

Beyond that it is made clear in other sources that he mapped new regions in the north west corridor of the Empire to make it easier for the Chiss to move in and out of Imperial space.

 

Point ---->

...... Head

 

I get he went into unknown space.

I know he created Hyperlanes from Unknown space into Sith space.

But did he ever find Hyperlanes from the Unknown space into OTHER REGIONS? I have seen no proof of this, and if he didn't then this discussion is pointless.

[LadyKulvax]

Point ---->

...... Head

 

I get he went into unknown space.

I know he created Hyperlanes from Unknown space into Sith space.

But did he ever find Hyperlanes from the Unknown space into OTHER REGIONS? I have seen no proof of this, and if he didn't then this discussion is pointless.

 

Considering that the Empire had conquered HALF THE GALAXY 'Darth Malgus went into campaigns(PLURAL) to expand the reach and influence of the Empire into new territories', why would he only conquer places surrounding Sith space when the Empire had half the galaxy under control and I am not sure if you've looked at a galaxy map recently but the Chiss Ascendancy is on almost the other side of the galaxy from Sith space, he conquered the unknown territories north of systems such as Byss and Dantooine and bridged the territorial distance between the Sith Empire(half the galaxy) and the Chiss Ascendancy(on the opposite side of the Galactic Republic).

 

How did you find that difficult to understand? I seriously fail to understand how you can think that Malgus only conquered regions surrounding Sith space when the Empire spanned half the galaxy after the ToC which is when Malgus started his campaigns.

[Selenial]

Considering that the Empire had conquered HALF THE GALAXY 'Darth Malgus went into campaigns(PLURAL) to expand the reach and influence of the Empire into new territories', why would he only conquer places surrounding Sith space when the Empire had half the galaxy under control and I am not sure if you've looked at a galaxy map recently but the Chiss Ascendancy is on almost the other side of the galaxy from Sith space, he conquered the unknown territories north of systems such as Byss and Dantooine and bridged the territorial distance between the Sith Empire(half the galaxy) and the Chiss Ascendancy(on the opposite side of the Galactic Republic).

 

How did you find that difficult to understand? I seriously fail to understand how you can think that Malgus only conquered regions surrounding Sith space when the Empire spanned half the galaxy after the ToC which is when Malgus started his campaigns.

 

Still missing the point in its entirety.

 

Maybe Beni'll get it and I won't have to spend 3 pages trying to explain it to you...

[LadyKulvax]

Still missing the point in its entirety.

 

Maybe Beni'll get it and I won't have to spend 3 pages trying to explain it to you...

 

No I am not you are wondering if he knows of ways in and out of Sith Space that dont lead to the unknown regions, but you also assumed that the only regions that mattered were ones around Sith space what you utterly failed to take notice of is that he also has the mapped space between the Dromund system, the Horuset system and the outer fringes of the Malachor system, Dromund Kaas is nowhere near Sith space as you think of it, there were unknown regions in-between the Imperial capital and the systems of the Old Sith Empire, he consolidated the powerbase there.

 

Sorry that your attempt at a bottleneck is completely out of the question.

[Selenial]

No I am not you are wondering if he knows of ways in and out of Sith Space that dont lead to the unknown regions, but you also assumed that the only regions that mattered were ones around Sith space what you utterly failed to take notice of....

 

That was not my point.

[Selenial]

sorry that your attempt at a bottleneck is completely out of the question

 

Ohh, Just noticed this.

 

Not out of the question. No matter what it will work the first time and that's all I need. Once it's done Malgus will step back, send more scout trips and be more cautious. Who wouldn't. Meanwhile, Traya will be heading IMMEDIATELY for Dromund Kaas. She, Maul and the Assassins will make it before he gathers his fleet together for a different attack.

[LadyKulvax]

That was not my point.

 

There is no point, Sith space at that time was contained within the unknown regions with Dromund Kaas sitting to the north, Sith space IS the Unknown regions, do you understand what that means?

 

Do you also understand what it means when I state that the entire of the Sith Empire was half the galaxy? so there is no limit to where and how he went into the unknown regions considering it surrounds the entire of the northern and eastern side of the galaxy, so yes he had to have mapped lanes in and out of other regions of space, not just Sith Space.

[Beniboybling]

That escalated unnecessarily...

 

Any way if we can all just cool it I'll make the following observations

 

The easiest route out of Sith Space and in particular to Malachor V is the Daragon Trail. Traya and Sion refer to Malachor V as a gateway to Sith Space, so we can only assume it exists on or in proximity to this hyperspace route.

 

However it is obvious that the Empire had other means of exiting Sith Space as with the onset of the Great Galactic War the first strike was not at Korriban but at the Tingel Arm and Minor Cluster - as well as other systems on the very fringes of the galaxy. The only explanation for this is the Empire's various territories within the Unknown Regions, which effectively allowed them to move about the 'circumference' of the galaxy and turn up at the other side.

 

However as one might expect these regions are riddled with hyperspace anomalies, and therefore likely take a considerably amount of time to navigate. Indeed according to this table, it would take approx. 4 days for a ship of a Class 1 hyperdrive to get from the Unknown Regions to the Outer Rim. The standard of Revan's Sith Navy was Class 2, so it would take them over a week if not more (given that they then have to plot a course to enemy territory itself) to arrive. As opposed to the hours it would take if they took the Daragon Trail.

 

Despite this dedicating 1,000 ships to a single route is likely impossible and unnecessary. He'll likely send half that number while keeping the other half in reserve. In all honesty I can't imagine Malgus using the alternate routes unless the situation absolute demanded it, with the proximity of these two combatants the Kaggath could be over before the fleets even arrive. So will bottle necking the Daragon Trail will not stop Malgus, it will slow him down.

 

That said Malgus has 1,000 fleets at his disposal, even with a stealth fleet and immoblisersTraya will be hard pressed to wipe the fleet out entirely while taking minimal casualties.

[Beniboybling]

He mapped the unknown regions and conquered large territories previously unknown to the galaxy, he focused into the north to make it easier to go around the inner rim and not get slammed hard by the Republic Navy.

 

Also you are assuming that Malgus is some idiotic Von Steiffel type that just goes wading into combat as fast as he can, he is an intelligent commander and highly skilled tactician.

 

He can spring pretty spectacular pincer movements as seen when he drove the Republic out, he is great at mounting strong defenses and is even more exceptional at making diversionary tactics and drawing away resources, using sheer weight of numbers to force defenders out of their holes to stop themselves from being surrounded, or so they believe, then he smashes them down with his Sith.

 

Malgus is a much better tactician than a lot of people see to be giving him any credit for, he was the Erwin Rommel of his time, using previously unheard of strategies that made the Dark Council believe he'd lost his head many times when in-fact he turned the inner rim campaigns from attrition into slow but steady victories.

And this is why Malgus can't afford to stay at home twiddling his thumbs.

 

I don't care how advanced Star Wars tech is, Malgus simply can't command his fleets effectively from Kaas City.

[LadyKulvax]

And this is why Malgus can't afford to stay at home twiddling his thumbs.

 

I don't care how advanced Star Wars tech is, Malgus simply can't command his fleets effectively from Kaas City.

 

I was never attempting to put across the idea he's going to sit at home and do nothing, but he also won't be leading the charge in direct combat, he is most likely going to get as far as his flagship or the planetary headquarters.

[Beniboybling]

There are no frontlines until they find a way around the Blockade, so it's safe to presume they'll be there.

 

If not, they could make her defect in another battle, and have it look like she barely made it to DK alive.

 

If THAT isn't accepted, then Traya can still make it into the throne room with her followers, she says she can make herself and her actions not noticed in someone's mind, so opening the door would not be noticed by any outside guards, only Malgus.

 

Edit: As for HK, a memory wipe is what I want. It lulls Malgus into a false sense of Security.

 

HK has subroutines that bypass memory wipes, in case he was to fall into enemy hands. His old self returns to normal on sight of his true master, Traya.

 

He would know he was loyal to her until she walked in.

Ventress will either be dead, on Korriban or aboard a another fleet taking an alternate route. She has no reason to return to Dromund Kaas. Malgus certainly won't value her as a bodyguard. Likewise the same applies for Malgus if he's on the frontlines. Though it is possible Ventress could be captured, but Traya would have to be aware of her first.

 

And so your saying that if Revan turned up on the Emperor's Space Station HK-47 would defect? Some evidence of that would be appreciated.

[Beniboybling]

I was never attempting to put across the idea he's going to sit atme and do nothing, but he also won't be leading the charge in direct combat, he is most likely going to get as far is flagship or the planetary headquarters.

That certainly seems more likely, though I expect Malgus would take up the reins if things went pear-shaped.