State of Vanguard Tanking and Ideas for Improvement

[BARSAL]

Disclaimer: this thread is not about Vanguard Tanks being terrible or flaming how Guardian Tanks are OP; that being said comparisons will be used, mostly Guardians as a point of reference considering they are definitely the strongest tanks atm. And yes it is a long read, thoroughness seems to be the only way to get through to Bioware. If you are familiar with the inherit imbalances skip to the suggestions.

 

Vanguard Tanks Status in a Nutshell

 

My personal opinion aside, the general community views tank usefulness as follows:

PVE: Guardian, Vanguard, Shadow

PVP: Guardian, Shadow, Vanguard

So obviously Guardian tanks are the strongest right now and Vanguard/Shadow are considerably behind in many regards. This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas to make Shield Spec unique and fresh, as well as making Vanguard Tanks more appealing FOR BOTH PVE AND PVP. As is, Vanguard tank spec is the most lackluster and unoriginal.

 

Vanguard Strengths: AoE Damage, Passive Mitigation, Overall Consistent Damage

 

Vanguard Weaknesses: Practically non-existent burst damage, No finishing power(ie. execute, under 30% damage increase), Defensive cooldowns very lackluster, Utility not unique and a little lacking in protecting healers

 

 

Some Tank Comparisons

 

Talent Examples

 

Guardian

 

Guardian Talents are very well constructed as of 2.0, where many talents provide more than one useful addition.

Daunting Presence: Force Leap has 50/100% chance to finish the cooldown on Force Kick. In addition, Saber Reflect last 1 second longer and generates a high amount of threat to all enemies within 30 meters.

Shield Specialization: Increases shield chance by 2/4% and reduces the cooldown of Saber Ward by 15/30 seconds.

Beacon of Might: Reduces the cooldown of Warding Call by 30 second, increases damage of Hilt Strike and Guardian Slash by 15%, and reduces the cooldown of Riposte by 1.5 seconds.

Inner Peace: Increases the duration of Enure by 10 seconds. Increases elemental and internal damage reduction by 5%.

These are not all the talents that have more than one useful addition but you get the idea.

 

Vanguard

 

There are only two talents that have more than one useful addition. Energy Blast, which is very similar to Guardian Slash so those two pretty much don’t count as both are very useful 36 point talents. The other is Supercharged Ion Cell which gives extra damage to Ion Overload, High Impact Bolt the ability to spread the dot from Ion Cell and that dot the ability to not break CC. The remaining multi-purpose talents have useless additions. Soldiers Grit, besides augmenting your Adrenaline Rush, gives you 5% alacrity during Battle Focus which is garbage. Guard Cannon, besides giving your Shoulder Cannon the ability to heal, gives 5% extra threat to Shoulder Cannon and Explosive Surge again a practically useless addition.

 

Conclusion

 

Bioware gave great depth and uses to Guardian Talents while additions to Vanguard Talents seem to have been an afterthought. I’m not saying all talents, and tanks for that matter, should be the same, merely stating that Vanguard talents lack imagination or willingness to give Shield Tech anything special. In the Guardian Defense Tree ALL of their defensive cooldowns get a reduction in time and/or improved effectiveness. That’s not even mentioning the talents which improve ALL of their CC abilities (and give an extra one). In the Vanguard Shield Tech Tree one out of Vanguard’s measly two defensive cooldowns gets augmented slightly and not even a time reduction, and slight improvement on Vanguard CC (mostly snare).

 

Abilities and Utility Including Defensive Cooldowns and CC

Guardian

6 second AoE Mez

Free (No Cost) AoE Snare

Two 4 second hard stuns that do not need to be channeled (force stasis 4 sec. with pvp set bonus)

Force Push

Saber Ward

Saber Reflect

Warding Call

Enure

Enemy Leap (With cooldown reduction on damage taken)

Friendly Leap

Challenging Call Specced to give allies moderate absorb bubbles

Blade Barrier

Blade Barricade

Guardian Slash DR

5% Accuracy debuff to enemies

Armor Debuff AoE

Focused Defense (at least it’s about as useful as AR)

Force Kick Interrupt

Extra speed when guarded person is attacked

Riposte

 

Vanguards

Enemy Leap (with extra speed only if attacked within 4 seconds after leap)

Reactive Shield

Adrenaline Rush

Harpoon (Enemy Pull)

Battle Focus (admittedly the only thing Guardians Tanks don’t have is an offensive cooldown)

AoE damage snare (damage can be helpful or hurtful)

Hold the Line

Neural Surge (2.5 sec AoE hard stun)

Riot Strike Interrupt

Riot Gas

Ranged Taunts

4 second hard stun

Shoulder Cannon

Stealth Scan

 

The amount of active defensive cooldowns isn’t even close. Guardian has two 4 second hard stuns, an AoE mez and a very strong single target knockback while Vanguard has only one 4 second hard stun and one 2.5 second AoE hard stun (which is the only thing unique to Vanguards compared to other classes) but no AoE mez and no knockback. Both have an enemy leap but Guardians is definitely on a shorter cooldown because of the talent Battlefield Command. Guardians have a friendly leap and Vanguards do not. Both have lackluster healing abilities which are only effective when other defensive cooldowns are popped at the same time. Riot Gas is a strong cooldown but even so Guardians put an accuracy debuff and armor debuff with a single move which is used often. And Guardians put a bubble on friendly targets with AoE taunt. Vanguards AoE snare is only free and pretty much cost efficient after you Storm (Enemy Leap) while Guardians is free all the time. Vanguards AoE snare does do damage but this can be a negative thing if you want to pre-apply snare to targets which are mezzed. To sum up the only abilities that give Vanguards any type of advantage compared to a Guardian are Harpoon(a pull), Hold the Line(Root and Snare Immunity), Stealth Scan and Battle Focus. Everything else Guardian does just as well or in most cases better.

 

Main Concerns

 

PvE: In PvE the Vanguard tank is very much viable and sits in a pretty comfortable spot. The main concerns are Adrenaline Rush needs to be buffed and/or redesigned, and the lack of Anit-F/T cooldown that the other tanks can completely negate mechanics with. (Although in perfect fairness Hold the Line does allow VGs to negate some knock-back mechanics that the other tanks cannot)

 

PvP: In PvP Vanguard tank (and in fact dps as well) is by far the weakest of the three tanks, it has no niche that makes it desirable compared to the other tanks, especially with field respec so a shadow will always be tank in huttball making VGs not unique. Removing field respec would almost require teams to bring a VG except that a Shadow tank in tank or dps gear would definitely be better at node guarding and still better for protecting healers, but then again this is another tangent which has little to do with changing the class. Vanguard tanks need something unique that makes them desirable compared to the other two tanks, especially in ranked. Shoulder Cannon was a great idea/start but as I mention below has many flaws and needs to be buffed/changed. The easiest way to give VG tanks more value and uniqueness is to improve the unique abilities they already have through the talent tree, these abilities being Stealth Scan, Harpoon, Hold the Line, Riot Gas and Shoulder Cannon. Some of these abilities are already augmented in the tree but overall VG tanks need these abilities augmented even further to be considered useful in top level PvP. Also Vanguard tanks lack burst damage, in general really. Yes we have Battle Focus but when BF isn't up our crit is crap and we don't have any surge talents to augment BF to actually provide burst. Furthermore we have no auto-crit abilities, such as Shadow's project proc, or an execute (which both other tanks have). Battle Focus does not = burst damage if your surge is 0 and is on a 2 minute cooldown which is not very impressive.

 

 

Suggested Changes (May affect more than tank spec)

Adrenaline Rush: The changes to AR in 2.0 were a good idea to give Vanguards a type of invulnerability similar to Force Shroud and Saber Reflect. However in practice it is not very effective except when used with Reactive Shield. Only healing the trooper to 30% still leaves him susceptible execute attacks which can burst through the healing done. Which brings me to my next point the Shield Spec talent Soldier’s Grit should be baseline for all troopers, in other words above 30% health it will heal 2% of your health every second after triggered. That should NOT be a talent, it should be how this underachieving defensive cooldown works (in other words baseline for all troopers). Furthermore upon triggering AR (by going under 30% health), AR should give the trooper a 10% healing received buff for the duration which is 8 seconds. These two changes would give this defensive cooldown the necessary buff it needs to be taken seriously. On top of that the talent Soldier’s Grit would have to be changed to improve AR or something else.

 

Shoulder Cannon: This is the only ability in the game that can be used while stunned making its utility potential very good. The problem with SC and Shield Spec is that Bioware decided to make SC another defensive cooldown. While it is nice to be able to heal yourself while being stunned they have created a trade off system. SC utility (i.e. stopping caps) and burst damage are completely negated if you have to use it as a heal and vice versa. Another problem with SC is the load time. The Charged Loaders talent in the Tactics Tree makes SC load 4 missiles immediately and gives them 15% extra damage. This should not be a talent for the exact same reason Soldier’s Grit should not be, this should be how SC works as a baseline. SC in its current state is a joke, while Guardian tanks get Saber Reflect as a new ability all Vanguards get is a little extra damage, big whoop. It needs to load at least 7 missiles and have that 15% extra damage to make it even noticeable. Also for tanks this will make it possible to use a few missiles for healing and a few for utility/slash damage if desirable.

 

Reactive Shield: There are many ways this talent could be improved for tanks and possibly all troopers (but Shield Spec especially needs better defensive cooldowns). Shadows as of 2.0 acquired the talent which makes Battle Readiness increase DR by 25% for 15 seconds and an immediate 15% of health heal, 2 minute cooldown. Guardians have Warding Call which reduces all damage taken by 40% for 12 seconds, 2 and a half minute cooldown. Reactive Shield is 25% DR for 15 (18 with pve bonus) seconds, 2 minute cooldown. RS compared to the two other DR cooldowns is fine but the problem is it's VG's/Commado's only effective defensive cooldown. As such it either needs shorter cooldown and/or a buff attached to the Shield Spec Tree.

 

Harpoon: Harpoon is where we get into new ideas for Shield Specs effectiveness at guarding healers in pvp. Shield Tech should be given a talent which allows them to friendly pull with Harpoon. This would allow them very unique utility compared to the other two tanks for getting to their healer or saving someone who is stun locked, but mostly aimed at giving Vanguards another way to effectively guard their healers. Guardians have 2 leaps, one of which gets them directly to a friendly target and reduces that targets damage taken, and they gain extra speed every time their guarded target is hit. Shadows have a force speed that breaks roots and snares, resilience (which allows a shadow to simply walk back to his healer no problem) and phase walk (which I understand still has some problems). Vanguards have Hold the Line (which only lasts 6 seconds giving 30% move speed + root/snare immunity) and an enemy leap (Storm). Vanguard needs another option and if it’s going to be worse than Guardians in terms of pure CC, it needs something special of its own.

 

Hold the Line: Should have 2 (at least) extra seconds added to it by making it an addition to a pre-existing talent (i.e. Defensive Guards which only serves to give 4% defense atm).

 

Stealth Scan: The Defensive Measures talent should either make Stealth Scan last as long as the cooldown or make the cooldown as short as the Stealth Scan. This is one of the only abilities that makes Shield Spec unique compared to other tanks and should therefore be prominent in its use.

 

Riot Gas: While a fairly good PvE cooldown, in PvP it is little more than a lasting AoE Snare that can be moved out of which incidentally also completely negates the reduction of accuracy. To be effective in PvP it needs to completely root targets for the duration forcing them to use CC Breaker, Roll, etc. in other words important defensive cooldowns/escapes.

 

There are many other things that could be done by pretty much copying ideas from the Guardian Defense tree but I/we want the class to be unique not an exact copy of Guardian just because it’s the best atm.

Thanks for reading

I appreciate feedback (constructive or otherwise it's still a bump)

Edited August 16, 2013 by BARSAL

[Kitru]

Shadows as of 2.0 acquired the talent which makes Battle Readiness increase DR by 25% for 15 seconds and an immediate 15% of health heal, 2 minute cooldown. Guardians have Warding Call which reduces all damage taken by 40% for 10 seconds, 2 and a half minute cooldown. Reactive Shield is 25% DR for 12 seconds, 2 minute cooldown. RS is clearly the weakest cooldown out of the three and is a trooper’s and worse a Shield Tech’s only true defensive cooldown atm.

 

First off, you need to get your numbers right. Reactive Shield, for VGs, has a 15 second duration thanks to Into the Fray. If you're a PvE tank, it's an 18 second duration. For PvE Guardian tanks, Warding Call has a 12 second duration.

 

Now that you've got the numbers right, you need to look at the comparative performance of each CD in practical use rather than in the abstract. Reactive Shield and Battle Readiness provide the same DR, but, since Reactive Shield is a VG CD and VGs have a crapton more DR than Shadows, they also end up getting a lot more out of it. A VG tank should have a baseline 50% K/E DR; bring that up to 75% and it's, effectively, a 50% reduction in damage taken. A Shadow tank should have a baseline 35% K/E DR; bring that up to 60% and its, effectively, a 40% reduction in damage taken.

 

As such, if you look at duration and the actual practical benefits, Reactive Shield is actually the *best* of all of the CDs you referenced, and Warding Call is the worst, by a lot. Of course, this doesn't mean I'm disagreeing with you. Based upon the single CD logic here, Guardians would need to get some love to their CDs, which just isn't needed (they've already got the best CD suite in the game at the moment).

 

CDs should not be looked at individually. You have to look at them as an entire suite. Shadows have Battle Readiness, Deflection, and Resilience. Guardians have Enure, Warding Call, Saber Ward, and Saber Reflect. VGs have Riot Gas (varies based upon how you define a tank CD), Reactive Shield, and Adrenaline Rush. As an entire *suite*, VGs are the worst off: Reactive Shield is *great*, especially with the tank set bonus, but the longer duration doesn't really make up for Adrenaline Rush being the worst of the hp effect CDs (Battle Readiness is only 15% and Enure provides a massive 30% cushion; Enure is the, de facto, best of the lot; Adrenaline Rush suffers from being horribly situational and requiring a *very* specific level of incoming damage to be useful) and the only CD suite that lacks a defined anti-F/T CD.

 

Basically, VGs need Adrenaline Rush fixed so that it's useful once again (i.e. have it trigger when knocked below 50% and split the current regeneration into 3 separate stacks where all 3 are active below 30%, 2 are active below 50%, and only 1 is active above 50%; the Adrenaline Rush talent would just add an extra 2% on top of it at all times or allow an extra stack to be active when above 30%), and tank VGs specifically need some form of explicit anti-F/T CD functionality provided, whether it's attached as a rider to an existing ability (Battle Focus, Reserve Powercell, or Riot Gas) or a new ability entirely.

[BARSAL]

In PvE yes I would call Riot Gas a defensive cooldown but for PvP I would go as far as to call it an over-glorified AoE snare but in reality the only way it would be effective in PvP is if it acted kind of like an AoE Electro Net that would prevent camo, rolling, leap, etc. w/o doing damage but still incorporating the accuracy debuff and snare. I would be ok with a longer cooldown of course because this would make it a considerably powerful cooldown but as is it just doesn't do much since people can move out of it quickly if they aren't stupid.

I can definitely agree with the collective bargaining of defensive cooldowns but Reactive Shield was more of an unfinished thought. The real point was meant to be along the lines of how each tank had practically the same DR cooldown but if Vanguard was going to be left in the dust concerning other cooldowns then RS better be one hell of a cooldown and certainly better than its counterparts (Warding Call, Battle Readiness) which as you pointed out kind of is but not necessarily, more along the lines of for a VG tank 25% extra DR is enough.

Anti-F/T would be great but that was another point of the post that I don't think VG need another copy cat of Resilience (Saber Reflect), but what they really need is something unique otherwise it just get's to the point where it's "oh this tank has this cooldown, I deserve something the exact same as that or it's not fair." A perfect example is the change to Battle Readiness (I do not think above quote was used as a complaint, this is just an example), maybe Shadows didn't really expect to get a similar cooldown but they did which makes it seem like that is Bioware's answer to complaints about tank imbalance, "just give them the same thing and call it something different." Incidentally maybe one of the easiest way to give anti-F/T is to take an idea from Commando's talents and make Vanguard Diversion have an anti-F/T ability talented into, of course you would have to take away the drop in threat as well.

[MGNMTTRN]

I appreciate the original poster's efforts to try to include PVE considerations, but there are a few things I wanted to note from my (mostly PVE) perspective.

 

Vanguard utility in PVP:

The Vanguard has plenty of snares (Explosive Surge, Riot Gas, Ion Cell/HIB) and a few other tricks up his sleeve. Coupling this snaring with kiting could allow them to avoid a decent amount of damage against Knights/Warriors who have little recourse outside of the 4m range. However, 1) Shadows have a decent time kiting enemies, what with Force Slow, Slow Time, Force Speed, and all of their important attacks having a 10m range 2) this slightly increased range is the only utility I see for Vanguards; Force Speed and Guardian Leap >> 30% speed boost from Storm. Additionally Riot Gas seems to be the entrenching buff that Vanguard tanks are supposed to provide to teams on the defensive, similar to the effects of Guardian AOE taunt or Shadow Phase Walk. In PVP Riot Gas is, frankly, boring, and is countered in numerous situations (all ranged classes outside its area of effect, Sages/Sorcs at any distance, Slingers/Snipes with Target Acquired/Illegal Mods, all Vanguard DPS attacks save HIB bypass this acc roll, many Balance Shadow attacks bypass this acc roll, many Dirty Fighting Scoundrel abilities bypass acc roll, Knights' Force Sweep bypasses acc roll). So while Riot Gas is easily 'countered', it's hard to 'counter' Guardian AOE taunt or Shadow Phase Walk, and while these two other abilities help a team entrench themselves in a defensive position, Riot Gas simply cannot help protect your entire team against as many threats as Guardian AOE taunt or Phase Walk will. Not to mention, Riot Gas is highly susceptible to area denial abilities like Forcequake, Flyby, and Incendiary Grenade; Phase Walk only requires that healers stand within the radius, and Guardian AOE taunt requires no special provisions once the ability is used.

 

Vanguard tank burst damage in PVP:

I don't feel that Vanguard tank burst damage is in need of a fix. Vanguards have both Recharge Powercells (recover half of class's resource) and Battle Focus (+25% crit for ~12 sec, on 2 minute cooldown) while Guardians have an ability that gives 6 focus (of 12) on 45 sec cooldown and Shadows have an ability that only elevates the crit chance of its next two Force attacks. So Vanguard burst cooldowns are certainly available, even to tanks, and seem to provide competitive effects compared to those of the other two tank ACs. Whether they have more burst damage is an exciting an unanswerable question, for a variety of reasons. Chief among them: a significant amount of Vanguard tank damage is mostly Tech and/or Elemental, while the other tank ACs tend to have somewhat more Melee Kinetic damage. Since comparing Vanguard tank damage to non-Vanguard tank damage requires taking armor and defense ratings of enemies into account, and since enemy armor and defense vary quite a lot in PVP, it's hard to make generalizations based upon dummy parses or even parses of a Vanguard tank and non-Vanguard tank against the same group of enemies for the same amount of time. Apart from Vanguard burst cooldowns already being available and an inability to measure tank burst damage, there's also a question of whether it's good game design to even allow tank specs to put out good burst damage; if Vanguard tanks could burst enemies down, then why bring Vanguard DPS? Why bring Sentinel DPS?

 

Vanguard stuns in PVP:

One annoyance that the original poster brought up was the lack of stunning abilities that Vanguards possess. I do agree that Vanguards are short on stuns compared to Guardian tanks and Shadow tanks. For single-target stuns Vanguards only get Cryo grenade, and that's on a 1 minute cd; each of the other tank ACs also has a similar 1 minute cd single-target stun, but Guardian tanks also get Hilt Strike and Shadow tanks get Spinning Kick in combat. In PVE, while tanking HM SNV on my Vanguard, the lack of stuns with which I can stop Carver shockwaves is definitely something that my Shadow has that I miss.

 

Vanguard cooldown state in PVE:

After having run HM SNV/TFB for months and wiped a fair bit in NIM SNV/TFB, after rigorously planning my cooldown usage, and looking at the AC's typical damage taken per second, overall I feel that long-term durability is something I'd prefer more than short-term durability. So if our short-term defensive abilities would be bolstered at the cost of our long-term mitigation then I don't want this change made.

 

Vanguard steadiness in PVE:

As I noted above, I want Vanguard long-term durability to to be improved. The cooldown reduction change to Energy Blast made Vanguard tanking require a bit more skill to do decently, and sent the maximum skill threshold skyrocketing past all other classes in the game. So if that change was intended to make the Vanguard tank class more complicated, well done. But we did lose steadiness due to the other change to Energy Blast, the reduction in uptime from near-100% to ~50%. Further, our shield and absorb chances are no longer exceptionally differentiated from that of Shadows, and our damage reduction from armor is no longer exceptionally differentiated from that of Guardians. Between armor and shield/absorb we might overall be in a decent place, but all that's discernible right now is that Vanguards and Guardians don't take big hits like Shadows. Whereas there should have developed a clear order of damage taken profiles, in increasing steadiness: <Shadow, Guardian, Vanguard>. Maybe the problem is that in current gear and for current boss damage profiles we're not differentiated; I am a patient guy, and though I do think Vanguard steadiness vs that of Guardians is a problem that should be corrected, I'm willing to wait until the next round of operations comes out before making a decision.

Edited August 13, 2013 by MGNMTTRN

[BARSAL]

Edited the doc.

[Kitru]

The cooldown reduction change to Energy Blast made Vanguard tanking require a bit more skill to do decently, and sent the maximum skill threshold skyrocketing past all other classes in the game.

 

If you honestly think that the EB CD reduction is "skill based", I seriously have to wonder how you define "skill based". All you have to do is the same thing that VGs have *always* done: Stockstrike and HiB on CD; Ion Pulse at max cells, Hammer Shot when not. Sure, it's not on a static CD, but it's not like it vacillates heavily from one use to the next because of the proc rate on Ion Cell and the guaranteed procs on certain abilities.

 

The max skill threshold on a VG is still well below what a Shadow has, mainly because EB is, honestly, a *very* simply variable to manage. The closest it gets to "complex and skill based" is sometimes wanted to hold it in wait to catch a spike, which, honestly, isn't really needed since VGs are super stable anyways. On top of that, there aren't really any huge and important CDs to manage: Riot Gas is used on CD; Reactive Shield is used for *any* major spike or emergency situation, and Adrenaline Rush is just... terrible. This is getting into a more general discussion of tank comparison, but it's more than a bit fallacious to claim that, because of EB, which is *still* a really easy ability to use even if the CD has some slight variation, VGs are now harder to play than any other tank. VGs got made *slightly* more complex, but it's not like they suddenly became hard core skill tanks.

[MGNMTTRN]

Stockstrike and HiB on CD; Ion Pulse at max cells, Hammer Shot when not

Mmm, I love red herring. The rotation/priority you posted requires very little skill.

 

The rotation that requires exceptional skill is one where you keep ammo as close to 3rd tier/degenerated regeneration as possible, while replacing Ion Pulses with Hammershots whenever your Energy Blast cooldown reduction lockout is not up. There are a few ways to identify these windows of opportunity, but tracking your Energy Blast cooldown is the standard method. This second-to-second tracking of Energy Blast requires much more attention than even Kinetic Ward refreshing.

[Kitru]

This second-to-second tracking of Energy Blast requires much more attention than even Kinetic Ward refreshing.

 

And the actual performance increase it provides is virtually nonexistent. You can say that it "requires skill", but when it doesn't actually *affect* anything, you don't really have much ground to stand on.

[MGNMTTRN]

And the actual performance increase it provides is virtually nonexistent. You can say that it "requires skill", but when it doesn't actually *affect* anything, you don't really have much ground to stand on.

A long time ago I examined some related priority lists and the results this has in fighting an ops dummy. I found that my effective energy blast cooldown moved from 13.11 seconds (without attempting optimal proccing of Energy Blast cooldown reduction) to 11.94 seconds (with all attacks proccing Energy Blast cooldown reduciton), and my DPS only changed from ~1034 to 975. Your statement that 'it doesn't actually *affect* anything' is shown to be false in dummy settings; in an operation setting it's much harder to test, but I don't see why the ops outcome would be different.

 

While this difference between 45% and 50% might be small, it is certainly more significant than, say, any single augment's effects, and it's analogous to the management that Shadows have to exercise with Kinetic Ward. It's also going to become more and more important as shield chance increases/as gear progresses. Since both augments and good Kinetic Ward management are considered important, we shouldn't dismiss Energy Blast maintenance's relevance either.

 

I haven't shown that Vanguard Energy Blast maintenance takes more skill than that of Shadow Kinetic Wards. If you don't dispute that precise Energy Blast management can improve survivability and do dispute my claim that Vanguard Energy Blast maintenance takes more skill than whatever Shadows do, I might pen an argument for that. Somehow I suspect you won't be convinced, so I probably won't bother...

Edited August 13, 2013 by MGNMTTRN

[Justcae]

Hi! I'm Cae!

 

Let me preface all of this by saying two things. First, I have basically zero experience PvP on my Vanguard since 2.0. I cannot comment on the state of them simply because I have very few hours logged. Running around gank squad style on Ilum and doing the occasional queue do not give me the background to make any informative opinions. Second, in all HM and previous content I never ever felt like my Vanguard was lacking in any way shape or form. From NiM Kephess in Vanilla, or clearing the 55 HM ops in little more than 63's I never ever felt gimped. Yes other classes may have had ways both new and old to gimp content, but it truly didn't concern me. Felt better for it in some ways.

 

Since the release of the two new NiM's I have lost a lot of love, and had increasing amounts of frustrations just based on simple things which really hurt our class. This is further highlighted by the fact that our raid group currently uses two Vanguards in progression. So just full on Vanguard experience. Before I go into what I've felt was lacking though, lets go with what I truly enjoy about this class tanking.

 

1) Reactive Shield - Is an amazing cooldown. When I have it up i feel as if I'm almost invincible. It plays directly to our strength. Our armour. Any game you play whether its strategy, RPG, or whatever you take an attribute of your character and focus on it. This ability does that, and it pays dividends.

 

2) Hold the Line - Short cooldown, increase speed, and immune to physics. Very useful on basically every fight at some point or another. The only fight that comes to mind where I don't use it religiously is TFB, and limited use on Dread Guards. Every other fight as some aspect that this will help.

 

3) Storm/Harpoon - Are a nice combination of push/pull. Happy that we have the set up we do with them, however would be nice if the Storm(Leap as well it seems) bug were resolved.

 

That's about it right now unfortunately. I previously was a big supporter of Riot Gas/Smoke Grenade, but I'm finding in NiM it isn't giving me the damage reduction I need. Certain fights I'm absolutely being carried by nothing more than RNG and the iron will of our healers. I do not need to repeat what has already been said about AR/SC. They very poorly functioning right now. More so Adrenaline Rush.

 

Bioware is very fond of 45 second cycles in their Boss design. Whether its Kephess jumping, Snipers spawning, TWH moving, Terminate (HM, NiM is actually 25s I do believe) etc. a very significant percentage of mechanics function off of this timer. Now not all of the clearly affect us overly I'm just using them as an example. Vanguards are very weak to mechanics that function around a 45s cooldown. If you have a hard hitting ability that you would involve a tank swap, or if the natural mechanics of a fight rotate around a set time of 1 minute or greater Vanguards will function very well. It allows Vanguards to have their Reactive Shield off cooldown for some round of spike damage. Ideally you're tanking for 1 minute, and the other tank is tanking for one minute (or longer). As soon as the fights rhythm dips below this number (ie: 45s) Vanguards become helpless to built in spikes of damage and must rely on their healers to cover for them. Which leads into...

 

Tanks have two cooldowns specific to incoming damage that help mitigate damage or are supposed to. Vanguards two damage reducing cooldowns are Riot Gas (-30 accuracy, effectively dodge as it affects the to hit roll), and Reactive Shield.

 

On a 1 minute rotation Vanguards will function fine due to the fact that they will always have Reactive shield available. When you get to the 45s rotation the vanguard will only have Riot Gas available which simply under preforms. Which means that you'll have to use your support cooldowns to try and make up the difference. That and hope your healers can carry you through that part of the fight.

 

When you look at the overall picture, it really isn't anything the other tanks have to deal with simply because of how their cooldown suites are setup. The other tanks won't have the same issue with this, won't stress the healers in the same way.

 

tldr: We suffer from not having two cooldowns that reduce damage effectively. Riot gas is subpar, and AR/SC don't cover the gap.

 

Blah blah blah, shadows are skill tanks, Vanguards are not.

 

Just no. Shadows are no more skill based than Vanguards or Guards. The actual skill requirement for effective tanking is in the same ballpark for all. The only people I've ever heard say Shadows are "skill based" are Shadows with their nose to high in the air.