Burgdawg Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Assuming we're talking about all of these in their prime: 1: Luke Skywalker 2: Yoda 3: Mace Windu 4: Darth Sideous Sideous has Mace in ability to use the force, but not in lightsaber combat. Read the book. Mace pwned with Vaapad. Also, Yoda is considered the sword master of the jedi at the time and Mace couldn't quite catch him in their duels. Yoda's just too adaptive. Again, read the books, don't just watch the movies and go "oh that looks cool, he must be awesome" or "he looks like he threw that fight" ect. Now the fight for 5-10 should be more interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Assuming we're talking about all of these in their prime: 1: Luke Skywalker 2: Yoda 3: Mace Windu 4: Darth Sideous Sideous has Mace in ability to use the force, but not in lightsaber combat. Read the book. Mace pwned with Vaapad. Also, Yoda is considered the sword master of the jedi at the time and Mace couldn't quite catch him in their duels. Yoda's just too adaptive. Again, read the books, don't just watch the movies and go "oh that looks cool, he must be awesome" or "he looks like he threw that fight" ect. Now the fight for 5-10 should be more interesting... No way yoda was a better SWORDSMAN than Mace. Wiser and overall force user yes, Yoda is stronger, but blade to blade, buck stops at Mace Windu. Even Luke at his prime is still not the swordsman Mace Windu was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 No way yoda was a better SWORDSMAN than Mace. Wiser and overall force user yes, Yoda is stronger, but blade to blade, buck stops at Mace Windu. Even Luke at his prime is still not the swordsman Mace Windu was. Several sources seem to point to Yoda as the better duelist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Several sources seem to point to Yoda as the better duelist. Which ones? I mean as a total package, yes Yoda was a better fighter. But just on saber skills alone, I'm still leaning towards mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Which ones? I mean as a total package, yes Yoda was a better fighter. But just on saber skills alone, I'm still leaning towards mace. It's mentioned in Shadow Hunter that Yoda's lightsaber skill is better than Mace's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Is it me, or was there a thread Necro'd by a super secret Dev, that just had all of our posts Deleted? Star? Was i Imagining that? o.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Is it me, or was there a thread Necro'd by a super secret Dev, that just had all of our posts Deleted? Star? Was i Imagining that? o.0 It was. But now the thread is gone... strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 It was. But now the thread is gone... strange. ErmahGurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Obi-Wan Kenobi deserves more credit than people give him. I am not going as far as saying he is the best. But his mastery of Soresu combined with his high level of competency in Ataru gives a skill set that allows him to contest duels against flashier opponents. He beat Anakin in RoTS by maintaining his Soresu stance and his composure (pretty much the same thing) and then when Anakin made his inevitable mistake Obi-Wan took full advantage of this and ended the duel with a triple Cho-Mok which is definitely a final resort for a Jedi such as him. As a Padawan (nearing the end of his training) with only some combat experience and a moderate level of training in Ataru (refined under Qui-Gon) he was able to best Darth Maul once more using his intelligence to read into his opponents weaknesses and using Sun Djem to best an opponent fighting with an exotic and lethal fighting style. In Episode II when Obi-Wan fights Dooku (after Anakin is shocked) he fights using a style reminiscient of Ataru with some Soresu blocks and stances. He looses this fight as he plays into Dooku's strengths and once he is cut on the thigh he is quickly dispatched by Dooku. The Clone Wars made Kenobi into one of the most-skilled Soresu practitioners. The Clone Wars not only improved his technical skill but also his mental fortitude one of the key elements of Soresu. His style somewhat reminds me of Bane in that he draws his opponent in and they waste their energy and lose focus allowing him to take advantage of his opponents weaknesses. This is conveyed perfectly by his fight with Anakin in Ep III. Kenobi's Soresu and his intelligence allowed him to read his opponents and hone in on their weaknesses such as during his fight with General Grevious on Utapau where he was able to accomplish a feat that Tarr Seirr, Sha'a Gi, Aayla Secura, K'Kruhk, and Jedi High Council members Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti could not (Clone Wars: Battle of Hypori) in this battle Grevious had had very little practice wielding multiple lightsabers. He held his own against Grevious for an extended period of time (on more than one occassion) and completed multiple Cho Mai strikes then later killed him (his intellect and luck rather thank Lightsaber Skill). This then implies that he would be able to defeat Galen Marek who managed to with some difficulty defeat and kill Shaak Ti (Force Unleashed). Which then implies he would be able to defeat Darth Vader and at least hold his own against the Emperor as Marek did. Continuing from this it is implied that he could at least hold his own against or best anyone who Vader bested as well as anyone the Emperor bested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I'd Nominate Dooku, Kenobi and Qui-Gon, however, we're working on Number one, and they don't get close enough to even stand for 5... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 This then implies that he would be able to defeat Galen Marek who managed to with some difficulty defeat and kill Shaak Ti (Force Unleashed). Which then implies he would be able to defeat Darth Vader and at least hold his own against the Emperor as Marek did. Shaak Ti spent her entire time in Exile refining her skills, preparing to face Vader. So no, that Doesn't work at all. Kenobi would stand no chance against Sidious, and in the Novel, neither did Marek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) Okay, assume Shaak Ti improved her skills 100% or even 200% this still puts her behind Kenobi at his peak. 6 Jedi, 2 of them Council Members and they didn't leave a scratch on Greivous. But Kenobi ALONE managed to remove 2 of Greivous' lightsaber wielding hands and you have to account for the increase in Greivous' skills as well. Edited August 7, 2013 by siaphierrogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Okay, assume Shaak Ti improved her skills 100% or even 200% this still puts her behind Kenobi at his peak. 6 Jedi, 2 of them Council Members and they didn't leave a scratch on Greivous. But Kenobi ALONE managed to remove 2 of Greivous' lightsaber wielding hands and you have to account for the increase in Greivous' skills as well. No you don't. Grevious got Force-Crushed by Windu, leaving him Permanently injured, harder to breathe Etc, prior to his battle with Kenobi. Also, not sure how Canon that duel was... Either way, they were all Incredibly tired, Ki-Adi and her would have taken him easily had they known his Tactics like Kenobi did at the time of Grevious' death, and had been on fine physical form... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Marek never fought the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Taking into account that Kenobi defeated Anakin when Anakin was in a rage and that Anakin (while raging to a much lesser extent) killed Dooku, Kenobi theoretically at his peak could have beaten Dooku as Anakin did. Dooku was beaten by Yoda in Ep II and so I would say that Kenobi was on a level near Yoda using only movie references or so called Lucas Canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) Taking into account that Kenobi defeated Anakin when Anakin was in a rage and that Anakin (while raging to a much lesser extent) killed Dooku, Kenobi theoretically at his peak could have beaten Dooku as Anakin did. Dooku was beaten by Yoda in Ep II and so I would say that Kenobi was on a level near Yoda using only movie references or so called Lucas Canon. ABC logic does not work here. Edit: Per Nick Gillard and GL, Yoda is a level 9 and Obi-Wan is a level 8. Obi-Wan made a gamble to beat Anakin, Palpatine confirms that Anakin would have been killed fighting Yoda. Edited August 7, 2013 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Marek never fought the Emperor. I stand corrected. They did have a confrontation but it was all force powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I stand corrected. They did have a confrontation but it was all force powers. Yes, but they never actually fought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 ABC logic does not work here. Edit: Per Nick Gillard and GL, Yoda is a level 9 and Obi-Wan is a level 8. Obi-Wan made a gamble to beat Anakin, Palpatine confirms that Anakin would have been killed fighting Yoda. Just out of curiosity do you have a link to your source? Not disputing just interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Just out of curiosity do you have a link to your source? Not disputing just interested. The levels? Kenobi is confirmed a level 8 in the ROTS DVD Commentary. I can't remember where Yoda's level is mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 And another thing. In The Making of Star Wars George Lucas confirms that only Yoda and Mace Windu were able to contend with Palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) Just thinking doesn't it seem a little strange that light side lvl 8 RoTS Anakin can tear apart lvl 9 Dooku with ease and then falls to a lvl 8 Kenobi after falling to the Dark and becoming a lvl 9? This lvl system seems quite flawed Edit: Add: Depa Bilaba was able to best Mace Windu on one occasion so where does she fit into this whole lvl system? Edited August 7, 2013 by siaphierrogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Just thinking doesn't it seem a little strange that light side lvl 8 RoTS Anakin can tear apart lvl 9 Dooku with ease and then falls to a lvl 8 Kenobi after falling to the Dark and becoming a lvl 9? This lvl system seems quite flawed Anakin's mentality was fragmented when he was fighting Kenobi. A more focused Anakin would have bested Kenobi, as Kenobi was being thoroughly dominated by Anakin during their duel. He won only through luck and a broader and more focused mind-set. Against Dooku Anakin's rage was focused and his mentality wasn't fragmented. Edit: Add: Depa Bilaba was able to best Mace Windu on one occasion so where does she fit into this whole lvl system? In Shatterpoint? Both were heavily wounded (Mace moreso, as he was stabbed), and Windu was holding back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siaphierrogue Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Anakin's mentality was fragmented when he was fighting Kenobi. A more focused Anakin would have bested Kenobi, as Kenobi was being thoroughly dominated by Anakin during their duel. He won only through luck and a broader and more focused mind-set. Against Dooku Anakin's rage was focused and his mentality wasn't fragmented. I would say Kenobi was more fragmented as the man he saw as a brother and/or son had turned on the light side and had become a monster. The scene where we see Kenobi's reaction to the recording at the temple and then again when he sees just how far Anakin has fallen. It is the ultimate betrayal. Kenobi managed to produce an indomitable defence at the time when he felt the most upset and volatile. In that situation almost any jedi would give in to their emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I would say Kenobi was more fragmented as the man he saw as a brother and/or son had turned on the light side and had become a monster. The scene where we see Kenobi's reaction to the recording at the temple and then again when he sees just how far Anakin has fallen. It is the ultimate betrayal. Kenobi managed to produce an indomitable defence at the time when he felt the most upset and volatile. In that situation almost any jedi would give in to their emotions. Obi-Wan was not upset. He put aside his emotions so that he could "do what he must." Even in the novel we see that he isn't caught up in emotion, whereas Anakin is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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