Beware: Dye Modules, TOTAL RIPOFF

[DarthTHC]

I believe they are, its perfectly alright for BioWare to add the dyes in the cash shop, they do need to make $$ but to have them "random" is pushing unethical.

 

I mean that's like ordering a pizza and hoping you get your favorite toppings but 9 times out of ten getting anchovies, pineapples and play-dough as toppings.

 

I wonder if EA/BioWare would like it if we subscribed and just give them ONE number from our credit card and made them guess the rest? lol

 

And hey! Someone in Florida learned its easier to win 600 million dollars then it is getting your favorite dye color in SWTOR

 

It's more like having a choice of where to order your pizza. You can go to this one pizza joint that takes your local currency, pay $X, and get it at random as you say.

 

Or you can go to this other place that takes Monopoly money, has all the pizzas laid out for you to choose from and they're all just as piping hot and delicious as from the random place. But you can pick exactly what you want.

 

Are you going to complain or even care that the place charging you $ for the random pizza exists? Or are you just going to go buy a monopoly game and eat all the pizza you care to eat while pointing and laughing at people who pay $ for the random pizza?

[Andryah]

Looking at the kiosk implementation, I'm rather glad they went the gambling pack / can sell on the GTN route for the dyes rather than forcing us to burn cartel coins on them. And, let's face it, for anyone with a bit of intelligence (or the ability to read stickies) and time, credits are nothing.

 

Very much agree with you on this.

[Repman]

It's more like having a choice of where to order your pizza. You can go to this one pizza joint that takes your local currency, pay $X, and get it at random as you say.

 

Or you can go to this other place that takes Monopoly money, has all the pizzas laid out for you to choose from and they're all just as piping hot and delicious as from the random place. But you can pick exactly what you want.

 

Are you going to complain or even care that the place charging you $ for the random pizza exists? Or are you just going to go buy a monopoly game and eat all the pizza you care to eat while pointing and laughing at people who pay $ for the random pizza?

 

Show me a pizza joint that accepts Monopoly money...

 

Besides I am new and don't have the credits to shell out on the GTN, I apologize if I believe they should of just added the dyes by color and let you choose, am I not allowed to have an opinion, I do live in America you know.

 

I've noticed you've always got a rebuttal for anyone voicing their opinion about this game. So what if I don't like the way the "take a chance" Cartel Market system works, why should you care?

[Bluequicksilver]

Yeah you spend money on cartel coins you should have control what colors you get not spend 200$ coins to get ugly,random ,and the ones you want chief exploiting peeps on the GTN charge a million for the good colors ,like all white or black it should be exactly like the apperenace designer where you can choose your look . I mean who would color the armour purple and white or green on top of light green,yuk!

[DarthTHC]

Show me a pizza joint that accepts Monopoly money...

 

Besides I am new and don't have the credits to shell out on the GTN, I apologize if I believe they should of just added the dyes by color and let you choose, am I not allowed to have an opinion, I do live in America you know.

 

I've noticed you've always got a rebuttal for anyone voicing their opinion about this game. So what if I don't like the way the "take a chance" Cartel Market system works, why should you care?

 

Hey, someone else started the bad analogy. But mine's still better. Credits are to cartel coins as monopoly money is to US dollars.

 

If you don't have the credits, try reading stickies in the crafting forum.

 

If you don't like the way the dye packs are implemented, then you don't like the way dye packs are implemented. That's great. That's what the forums are here for - to express your feedback in a constructive manner.

 

I rebut people who are looking at it one-sided or twisting it:

 

• Opening random packs is not the ONLY (or even the best!) way to get dyes.
  
• Random dye packs are NOT unethical (as a blanket statement for all). Ethics are personal and individual. A person may choose not to gamble on them because gambling of any sort (not just the casino kind, but any game of chance) is against their personal code of ethics. But that doesn't mean they violate EVERYONE's code of ethics.
  
• Random dye packs do not MAKE for FORCE anyone to spend cartel coins or to purchase cartel coins; that is a CHOICE the player makes.
  
• Random dye packs ARE (a form of) gambling.
  

 

If you watch closely, THOSE are the types of things I rebut.

 

Just because you live in America doesn't mean you're allowed to voice your opinion. There are plenty of places you will get responses ranging from shouted down to beaten down or worse for voicing an unpopular opinion in the wrong place. Legally, sure. Practically... best think first.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DarthTHC

[DarthTHC]

Yeah you spend money on cartel coins you should have control what colors you get not spend 200$ coins to get ugly,random ,and the ones you want chief exploiting peeps on the GTN charge a million for the good colors ,like all white or black it should be exactly like the apperenace designer where you can choose your look . I mean who would color the armour purple and white or green on top of light green,yuk!

 

Here's a better solution. Keep your real, hard-earned money in your wallet. Instead, spend play money and get to pick exactly what you want.

 

How hard is it to understand that concept?

 

1) Spending real money / things of value like cartel coins = random, unhappy result.

 

2) Spending play money / valueless money = exactly the result you want.

 

17 out of 17 people with functioning brains pick the second option.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Andryah]

17 out of 17 people with functioning brains pick the second option.

 

Heh, true.. but we are talking about MMO players here..so it will be some fraction of 100% that get what you are explaining.

 

Opinions vary as to what the fractional % is. But at least you and I know it's not 0%

Edited May 24, 2013 by Andryah

[ObiJuanShenobi]

I agree. Dye modules suck.

 

The solution to this is simple. Implement (for the millionth time mentioned on the forums) TRADITIONAL Sith and Jedi robes from the movies! Sith Robes should be all black and completely cover what you are wearing. Period. I guaranteed if BW put traditional robes with hood toggles on the cash shop and charged 50 bucks worth of Cartel Coins for it they would make so much money on it because its exactly what everyone wants.

 

Not that I wanna pay that muh, I'm just saying. People would spend the money and everyone's issues of getting black colored robes would be solved

[DarthTHC]

Yeah, those inflated lifevest collars suck IMO.

 

I'm not sure what Cartel armor sets you have unlocked, though for a one-off you could just purchase a set or mix and match from the GTN. I have quite a collection unlocked, so I have a lot of flexibility now with Collections. Personally, I'd probably put Theran in Classic Despot (except for the helmet) because it responds really well to most dual dyes, and is not bulky. Then I'd dye him in the dark-blue/brown cartel dye which will give you a nice deep blue and dark gold finish, yet not glossy. [if you want to go with a light color scheme.. white/orange is hard to beat, though with Despot the medium-gray/green works well] You could probably do something similar with the Red Blade chest/legs (though the legs are color 2 so they would pop as gold) or even Thul Loyalist Chest/legs would work well.

 

And if you were into long coats, and have access to the TroubleMaker set (I just unlocked a copy today) that set colors up extremely well (it's why I aquired it). You could go medium-gray/geen, or dark-brown/white, or all the way up to white/orange if you want a leet medical lab look. If you want to do it on the cheap..Rist Statman's Coat works too, just not as well.. but generally is cheaper an easier to find.

 

Tell me what outfits you got.. I'll give you my 2-cents on dyes.

 

Troublemaker is nice, but it's crazy spendy on my server. I'm way too cheap to drop 3/4 mil on a jacket for a pet who I use because I have to not because I want to (need healer vs. want Nadia).

 

I went with Classic Despot for chest, legs, boots, and belt. Looks decent in its natural (black) color and meshes well with the gloves I got for him from a HMFP. Can't see bracers under the gloves and I keep the helmet turned off so those are irrelevant and I went with least expensive moddable.

 

Did not like the dark blue / light brown dye module. Interesting that the secondary color is the majority of that armor. I wanted something dark on most of the armor. The deep red and black looks pretty good on that armor. I'm half tempted to put him in deep pink + deep purple because... that represents what I think of him pretty accurately. But I probably couldn't stomach looking at that all the time.

 

The deep purple + black looked OK but was crazy spendy and I think I mentioned before i'm cheap?

 

I think I'm going to go with deep red & black, so off to Section X I go. I don't know if I have the rep for it, but on GTN they're only 75k so if I don't that's fine.

[Anzel]

Yeah you spend money on cartel coins you should have control what colors you get not spend 200$ coins to get ugly,random ,and the ones you want chief exploiting peeps on the GTN charge a million for the good colors ,like all white or black it should be exactly like the apperenace designer where you can choose your look . I mean who would color the armour purple and white or green on top of light green,yuk!

 

And don't forget... they are one time use. How convenient right? Then you get to start buying more and more gambling packs.

 

Also, your subscription is due...

[DarthTHC]

Heh, true.. but we are talking about MMO players here..so it will be some fraction of 100% that get what you are explaining.

 

Opinions vary as to what the fractional % is. But at least you and I know it's not 0%

 

Hey! Look! I think I found one who can't put it together intellectually! Right here in this very thread! (not you)

Edited May 24, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Quendishir]

SURE WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD CHANGE THE COLOR OF OUR GEAR!!!!

 

But we can't... still.

 

Each piece of gear has at least 3 (THREE!!!!!!!!!!!) colors. The Dye Modules change up to 2 (TWO?!?!?) colors. Meaning that gear which would otherwise be nice looking like the Pathfinder's set... remains primarily a dismal color. In this case brown.

 

How about an option to change the third color? We'd pay you for it! How about AT LEAST an option to match the third color to one of the other two?

 

I bought the Pathfinder set in anticipation of 2.1. Thinking FINALLY a style with a hood AND cloak colored like a Sith!! You DO know that many of the Sith in your trailers and in canon wore clothes with a black hood and a cloak, right? Sadly you've only made this style Jedi colored. What a pity...

 

I would not pay for it. Then again, I think this game is a joke at this point.

[Anzel]

I would not pay for it. Then again, I think this game is a joke at this point.

 

I wonder if EA even recognizes what's happening here. Last year we had a mass exodus from this game. Players were all pissed off. Everyone saw F2P coming. Yet there were the same forum trolls acting like everything was fine. Eating up everything BW fed them with a spoon while MILLIONS of players quit.

 

Here we are again. Repeating the same mistakes. All of the same warning signs. Massive player unrest. Cynicism all over the forums, Facebook, etc. Anyone home out there?

[DarthTHC]

I wonder if EA even recognizes what's happening here. Last year we had a mass exodus from this game. Players were all pissed off. Everyone saw F2P coming. Yet there were the same forum trolls acting like everything was fine. Eating up everything BW fed them with a spoon while MILLIONS of players quit.

 

Here we are again. Repeating the same mistakes. All of the same warning signs. Massive player unrest. Cynicism all over the forums, Facebook, etc. Anyone home out there?

 

There you go again.

 

MILLIONS (plural) of players didn't quit at that time, though certainly something over 1 million did. Exaggeration.

 

Massive player unrest... nothing like it was back then, even percentage-wise. There are a handful of vocal posters, such as yourself. That's it.

 

I would imagine that BWEA is keeping a nice, close eye on subscriptions at this point, just as they were back then. The difference being that now, they can probably react much more quickly than they did back then.

 

If you are indeed right and a significant percentage of subscribers have cancelled citing cartel market / dyes / random as the reason, I am confident BWEA will change direction simply because of that.

 

Have YOU spoken with your subscription? When you cancel your account, you get a chance to tell them exactly why. If you haven't done it, you might consider it so your voice can be more clearly heard by BWEA. It really does seem to be the method they pay the most attention to. You can always re-up before your playtime runs out if you still want to play, but your cancellation info will still be noted.

[anesvik]

This is stupid. ummm I am able to craft some dyes. And the red-white dye is popular, yet only goes for about 8k. And it makes my gear look bad ***. And are people complaining about using cartel coins to get dyes? wow, really. They are a ton of people that are free to play. How would you all suggest they make money? hmmm?

I love the dye system. this was a great idea. Room to improve? sure. But i am sure minor changes will be made in the future.

Here is a thought. You cant make EVERYONE happy. I dont like how i need to pay to be cathar...but im over it. I will buy the unlock off gtn using creds i worked my rear off for. Bioware needs to make money to offset the cost of development and pay their employees. Dont whine. Play the game. Enjoy it. Its freaking Star Wars. If you dont like it, i will take over your account for you all...

Its not perfect...but it is fun.

[OpenSorce]

This is stupid. ummm I am able to craft some dyes. And the red-white dye is popular, yet only goes for about 8k. And it makes my gear look bad ***. And are people complaining about using cartel coins to get dyes? wow, really. They are a ton of people that are free to play. How would you all suggest they make money? hmmm?

I love the dye system. this was a great idea. Room to improve? sure. But i am sure minor changes will be made in the future.

Here is a thought. You cant make EVERYONE happy. I dont like how i need to pay to be cathar...but im over it. I will buy the unlock off gtn using creds i worked my rear off for. Bioware needs to make money to offset the cost of development and pay their employees. Dont whine. Play the game. Enjoy it. Its freaking Star Wars. If you dont like it, i will take over your account for you all...

Its not perfect...but it is fun.

 

Try to remember the majority of the point of this thread is that parts of each armor piece are undyable, you can't fix this problem with anything you've mentioned. I'm glad you like the colors you can make, some of us can't get them as easily.

[GweedoBane]

This is stupid. ummm I am able to craft some dyes. And the red-white dye is popular, yet only goes for about 8k. And it makes my gear look bad ***. And are people complaining about using cartel coins to get dyes? wow, really. They are a ton of people that are free to play. How would you all suggest they make money? hmmm?

I love the dye system. this was a great idea. Room to improve? sure. But i am sure minor changes will be made in the future.

Here is a thought. You cant make EVERYONE happy. I dont like how i need to pay to be cathar...but im over it. I will buy the unlock off gtn using creds i worked my rear off for. Bioware needs to make money to offset the cost of development and pay their employees. Dont whine. Play the game. Enjoy it. Its freaking Star Wars. If you dont like it, i will take over your account for you all...

Its not perfect...but it is fun.

 

I would somewhat agree with you....but a lot including me (from peep I talk with ingame) are more annoyed at the randomness of the packs you buy from the CM (I only use my free coins). Why can't you choose the colour you want is all I'm saying. Would love the black colours but don't think I should have to pay a 1-2m (or more) on the gtn for it nor copious amounts of CC's from the CM for it and even then only a maybe that I get it. That part of the dye implementation is crazy imo.

 

Hopefully they will allow crafters to make ALL the colours and we can see some normality with this.

[Ancaglon]

here is your mistake, you bought the lie, 500K-750K times 15$ is atleast 7.5M per month, hardly doing bad

 

How much do you think it costs each month to pay the wages, employer's tax contributions, healthcare, office space, not to mention all the hardware, software and network costs involved in running a game that supports maybe 100-200k simultaneous players? And, of course, the license fees to Lucasfilm/Disney....

 

Those numbers add up fast. And, businesses have to generate profit in order to stay in business, this is not a Charity. I suspect their profit margin is in the 10-15% range.

 

More directly back on topic, I have only bought a few White-Red dye from the Security Key vendor at 5k a pop -- and it works wonderfully well on many of my characters including my main. But then again, I'm not very "sithy"

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ancaglon

[Snowangel]

Nope. Wrong-o.

 

Random dye kits do not MAKE anyone do anything. Every single person who thinks they might want a dye pack has choices. They may CHOOSE to spend some cartel coins to open a random pack and maybe (but probably not) get the color(s) they want.

[...]

You're a consumer. You're probably an adult. Start acting like one and take responsibility for your own choices and actions rather than saying, "Someone else MADE me do it". That's nothing but an admission of immaturity and weakness of character.

 

What about the young ones? Don't you think Cartel Packs and Dye Packs look seductive to those under 18 years? Don't you think that exactly this lack of self-control, you are talking about, couldn't make them give in their desires and gamble for a cool, phat item which they got to get or die? As far as I know this game is not restricted for teenagers and that shouldn't be ignored.

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Edited May 24, 2013 by Snowangel

[Thundergulch]

Eating up everything BW fed them with a spoon while MILLIONS of players quit.

 

Really? MILLIONS?

Stop lying to try and prove a point. It makes you look like an idiot.

[Snowangel]

Looking at the kiosk implementation, I'm rather glad they went the gambling pack / can sell on the GTN route for the dyes rather than forcing us to burn cartel coins on them. And, let's face it, for anyone with a bit of intelligence (or the ability to read stickies) and time, credits are nothing.

 

To me game credits are everything. For me earning game credits means burning not only time but also energy. Its easier and much more comfortable for me too earn real money and turn it into game credits - which I need in large amounts for I am running a small guild. Bank Tabs are very expensive. I would have no problem with buying lots of items in the Cartel Market. I would trade them on GTM with my fellow players who prefer to pay with game credits and everyone would be happy. I just don't want to gamble for Dye Modules or any item at all.

In fact, I would have spend more money in the Cartel, if the items would simply be listed - after all, I don't need a second or third account in SWTOR so... And there is still a lot of stuff I want but can't get because of the gambling.

 

Check that out: I'm a customer with an open wallet and they suck at getting it...

I don't know who is responsible for Dye System, Gambling Packs or the strategy to offer sets instead of single gear pieces in the Cartel. Nor I don't know who hired the guys who designed the ugliest gear I have ever seen in a game before. However, I know exactly what I would do if I were in charge: Fire them!

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[Snowangel]

Here's a better solution. Keep your real, hard-earned money in your wallet. Instead, spend play money and get to pick exactly what you want.

 

How hard is it to understand that concept?

 

1) Spending real money / things of value like cartel coins = random, unhappy result.

 

2) Spending play money / valueless money = exactly the result you want.

 

17 out of 17 people with functioning brains pick the second option.

 

 

... unfortunately, the other idots whith melted brains are the ones who keep - kept actually, I quit yesterday - the game running...

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[Snowangel]

I agree. Dye modules suck.

 

The solution to this is simple. Implement (for the millionth time mentioned on the forums) TRADITIONAL Sith and Jedi robes from the movies! Sith Robes should be all black and completely cover what you are wearing. Period. I guaranteed if BW put traditional robes with hood toggles on the cash shop and charged 50 bucks worth of Cartel Coins for it they would make so much money on it because its exactly what everyone wants.

 

Not that I wanna pay that muh, I'm just saying. People would spend the money and everyone's issues of getting black colored robes would be solved

 

Hahaha... true!!! I would prefer the light-colored stuff.

Hey, watch out what you are saying or they invent a new "Customer Service" called 'Traditional Pack' were everything but 'Gungan Fashion' and 'Tatooine Slave Wear' is a super-lightning-ultra-rare-drop!

 

PS: I can't imagine that they are too stupid to sell the clothes everyone wants. I bet its a matter of rights.

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Edited May 24, 2013 by Snowangel

[DarthTHC]

To me game credits are everything. For me earning game credits means burning not only time but also energy. Its easier and much more comfortable for me too earn real money and turn it into game credits - which I need in large amounts for I am running a small guild. Bank Tabs are very expensive. I would have no problem with buying lots of items in the Cartel Market. I would trade them on GTM with my fellow players who prefer to pay with game credits and everyone would be happy. I just don't want to gamble for Dye Modules or any item at all.

In fact, I would have spend more money in the Cartel, if the items would simply be listed - after all, I don't need a second or third account in SWTOR so... And there is still a lot of stuff I want but can't get because of the gambling.

 

Check that out: I'm a customer with an open wallet and they suck at getting it...

I don't know who is responsible for Dye System, Gambling Packs or the strategy to offer sets instead of single gear pieces in the Cartel. Nor I don't know who hired the guys who designed the ugliest gear I have ever seen in a game before. However, I know exactly what I would do if I were in charge: Fire them!

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Lots of fun stuff in there.

 

I'm sort of confused about your pattern of turning IRL $ into credits. I get why you want to do it and don't object to the practice if that's what you want to do. But if I were to do that, I think I would be posting items unopened onto the GTN. Could be the cartel packs, could be dye packs, could be other things that people who don't want to spend real money but credits would buy like outfits (the few good looking ones, I guess), character slot unlocks, species unlocks, etc. Have to look at the market a bit to figure out the best credit-to-dollar ratio. But for the random packs, there is far more value in them unopened than opened.

 

Right with ya on the armor. Seems only a very small percentage even approach looking good, and it's not improving with time.

[DarthTHC]

What about the young ones? Don't you think Cartel Packs and Dye Packs look seductive to those under 18 years? Don't you think that exactly this lack of self-control, you are talking about, couldn't make them give in their desires and gamble for a cool, phat item which they got to get or die? As far as I know this game is not restricted for teenagers and that shouldn't be ignored.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Anyone under 18 should have limits imposed upon their ability to spend money on the game by their parents, if their parents care. If they blow their wad that comes with the sub, then they can learn a lesson at 16 or 18 or whatever that some learn at 8 or 9 via allowance.

 

So, no, I'm not too worried about minors rolling dice in a game when it should absolutely not have any chance of costing them a real dime.