Dirty Fighting Smuggler

[Grobiou]

I'm playing Pyro this days and I can manage to be on top DPS on most warzones unless I'm the focus or there is one of those Marauders with who knows that spec that out DPS me. I can even kill 1 before I die in many cases when I have to deal with a 1 vs 2 situation.

 

My problem is that today I have found a dirty fighting smuggler that I can hardly se the HP going down in the WZ even if I hit with high numbers. I even isolated the smuggler to make sure it doesn't have a healer. I simply go down even using all my defensive abilities, stuns and adrenals and this smuggler is still over 60% HP in all the chances I had to fight it alone. When we were 2 vs the smuggler it was a close fight but still escaped us. Only got a kill blow in a 3 vs 1 situation.

 

I will try to find it in the logs but it was taking damage way better than a tank. This could be cheat or Dirty Fighting smugglers perform so well vs Pyros?

[Grimoir]

Sounds like a HoT'n'DoT spec to me

[Macroeconomics]

DF/Lethality is definitely an underrated subclass. When you look at their abilities closely you will see some things that make your eyes pop.

 

Consider their opening DoT attack vs. that of Pyro (Shrap Bomb vs. IM). Shrap Bomb has a 35m range, costs only 40% as much resources AND it's an AoE attack. That's right - AOE!!! Imagine the damage you could do if IM was an AoE with 35m range and cost only 10 heat?! W.T.F.! That's what the Lethality class has. And that's not all....

 

Their non-DoT AoE does as much damage as a tick of DFA, but it's instant cast and on a 6 sec CD. Seriously. SIX SECONDS! And if left alone they can overlap that with XS Freighter Flyby. That's a lot of AoE....

 

As for why you aren't hurting him with your damage, let's examine his defensive abilities....

 

For starters, he has two shields vs. your one. One of them is an awesome AoE shield that also protects allies. If he puts both of them up AND pops a warzone adrenal, your offensive output is going to be cut dramatically. Did I mention that his primary shield is on a 30 sec CD, vs. the 2 min CD on your shield?

 

When his shields are down he has Dodge which gives him 100% defense vs. ranged and melee attacks for 3 seconds. He's gonna pop that the instant you proc Rail Shot. Which means your Rail Shot misses. Doh.

 

He has Triage which means he can and will cleanse your DoTs. You can't cleanse his DoTs.

 

And if you ever get past all that stuff, he'll just exit out of combat stealth can come back later to kill you.

 

If that all sounds bad, it is. You can't fight this class at range. And yet if you get close, you get your ar-se stunned because his stun is on half the CD yours is, and more importantly he has multiple ways to mezz you - his DoTs don't interrupt a mezz. You can't mezz him because your DoTs do interrupt a mezz grenade. You get lucky and mezz him when he has no DoTs on, and you gain no advantage. He mezzes you and he heals himself while you stand there dazed. It's a bad setup. Just keep in mind that Lethality/DF is considered the weaker of the two Op/Scoundrel dps classes. Doesn't that make you feel OP? Well you are, 'cuz BW is gonna nerf you again in 2.1. Because they need to do that to make the game more balanced. LOL.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Macroeconomics

[Grobiou]

Your analysis sounds logical but it would be crazy to believe than a nerf to Pyrotech is coming in 2.1 LOL. Smash Guardians kill me way faster than I can kill them and I haven't come with a way to deal with them, just avoid that fight. Now I guess it's going to be the same with Dirty Fighting Smugglers. Sage healers are also a big pain to kill, even with help we can be dancing for minutes. Commando healers when guarded and worst if there is a 2nd healer you need some heavy hitters on your side to take that combo down.

 

I'm ok with the game having the rock-paper-scissors mechanics but when they said that PvP now was more about skills I was believing that skills was going to be the mayor factor in a fight. I have invested a lot of my time testing for a good spec and rotations and I can say that Pyrotech just have one option to not be a frustrating spec. Everything else that I tried just can't keep up with heat or simply can't deal enough damage to pay back for been the worse PT spec when it comes to survivability.

 

If they change Pyrotech again then should limit the amount of points that you have to invest to activate the full tree. It have a lot of defensive options that doesn't help much and does points are a better investment on something that add DPS.

[FeralPug]

Pyro was never a top-shelf 1v1 spec (assassins, concealment ops, and the occasional mara were better due to cooldowns), though it wasn't terrible either. Post 2.0, it's much weaker because of the heavy reduction in DoT damage. I find it to be a very fragile spec, perhaps the most fragile, in the game currently. The output is ok. It's certainly not where it was, but it's respectable. Add a little focus to a pyro, and you can effectively cut them out of the match.

 

If I insisted on running Pyro post 2.0, and I knew I was facing a lethality op/sniper, I'd definitely be picking up the DoT damage reduction in the Pyro tree. It'll help a little.

 

If you want to wreck stealthies and snipers though, full AP is probably one of the strongest 1v1 specs in the game right now. Yes, it will get out-damaged by specs like lightning, lethality etc, but your numbers can still be high if you're anal about your rotation. I'm pulling 1200+ dps with my non-min/maxed AP, and I'm durable as all hell. It's also a total unknown quantity. Players just don't know what to do. Operatives will try to cleans flame DoT's that don't exist. Stunlock-unto-death can't happen due to the massive damage reduction when stunned. Smashers do a flat 30% less damage to you. I actually view stuns and force chokes as buffs because they increase your damage reduction by 30% while you plug away with shoulder cannon (which is routinely hitting in the high 2's for me, which means over 14k damage off the GCD). I very rarely hit my stun break, which saves it for critical moments in a match.

 

The healers in my pre-made are frequently telling me how easy I am to heal vs. other spec/classes. 2.0 is a healer's game with healer output almost doubling the output of damage. This means that the specs that have durability built in are at a huge advantage over others in terms of up-time during a match. Between energy rebounder and stabilized armor, AP has an incredible amount of durability, especially considering the prevalence of AOE damage and stuns. My uptime is high, my damage is respectable, and AP is really great at pealing for healers.

 

I'm full AP 100% of the time now, and I'm not looking back. I'm the only one on my server from what I've seen so far. I'm sure there are others, but I've yet to see them in WZ's. I'm truly baffled by this. It's the sleeper spec of 2.0.

[Luckeyduckey]

Pyro was never a top-shelf 1v1 spec (assassins, concealment ops, and the occasional mara were better due to cooldowns), though it wasn't terrible either. Post 2.0, it's much weaker because of the heavy reduction in DoT damage. I find it to be a very fragile spec, perhaps the most fragile, in the game currently. The output is ok. It's certainly not where it was, but it's respectable. Add a little focus to a pyro, and you can effectively cut them out of the match.

 

If I insisted on running Pyro post 2.0, and I knew I was facing a lethality op/sniper, I'd definitely be picking up the DoT damage reduction in the Pyro tree. It'll help a little.

 

If you want to wreck stealthies and snipers though, full AP is probably one of the strongest 1v1 specs in the game right now. Yes, it will get out-damaged by specs like lightning, lethality etc, but your numbers can still be high if you're anal about your rotation. I'm pulling 1200+ dps with my non-min/maxed AP, and I'm durable as all hell. It's also a total unknown quantity. Players just don't know what to do. Operatives will try to cleans flame DoT's that don't exist. Stunlock-unto-death can't happen due to the massive damage reduction when stunned. Smashers do a flat 30% less damage to you. I actually view stuns and force chokes as buffs because they increase your damage reduction by 30% while you plug away with shoulder cannon (which is routinely hitting in the high 2's for me, which means over 14k damage off the GCD). I very rarely hit my stun break, which saves it for critical moments in a match.

 

The healers in my pre-made are frequently telling me how easy I am to heal vs. other spec/classes. 2.0 is a healer's game with healer output almost doubling the output of damage. This means that the specs that have durability built in are at a huge advantage over others in terms of up-time during a match. Between energy rebounder and stabilized armor, AP has an incredible amount of durability, especially considering the prevalence of AOE damage and stuns. My uptime is high, my damage is respectable, and AP is really great at pealing for healers.

 

I'm full AP 100% of the time now, and I'm not looking back. I'm the only one on my server from what I've seen so far. I'm sure there are others, but I've yet to see them in WZ's. I'm truly baffled by this. It's the sleeper spec of 2.0.

Hey Jerc,

 

 

I play AP too, so you're not alone, although I've yet to hit 55 on my PT. Seen a few Tactic VGs though, but hardly any AP. And yeah, this spec is definitely underrated. I can easily take people down 1v1, and have massive AoE damage.

 

Considering DF, it's easy to stop. We don't have cleanses, but we do have LoS. If it's a Scoundrel, then stay away from melee. Spam flameburst if you have to. They use Shiv/Blaster Whip for most of their damage (Cull and Wounding) so staying in 10m+ Range is a good idea.

 

You should've have too much trouble with them, if you're ready for it.

[Aetrus]

If you want to wreck stealthies and snipers though, full AP is probably one of the strongest 1v1 specs in the game right now. Yes, it will get out-damaged by specs like lightning, lethality etc, but your numbers can still be high if you're anal about your rotation. I'm pulling 1200+ dps with my non-min/maxed AP, and I'm durable as all hell. It's also a total unknown quantity. Players just don't know what to do. Operatives will try to cleans flame DoT's that don't exist. Stunlock-unto-death can't happen due to the massive damage reduction when stunned. Smashers do a flat 30% less damage to you. I actually view stuns and force chokes as buffs because they increase your damage reduction by 30% while you plug away with shoulder cannon (which is routinely hitting in the high 2's for me, which means over 14k damage off the GCD). I very rarely hit my stun break, which saves it for critical moments in a match.

 

The healers in my pre-made are frequently telling me how easy I am to heal vs. other spec/classes. 2.0 is a healer's game with healer output almost doubling the output of damage. This means that the specs that have durability built in are at a huge advantage over others in terms of up-time during a match. Between energy rebounder and stabilized armor, AP has an incredible amount of durability, especially considering the prevalence of AOE damage and stuns. My uptime is high, my damage is respectable, and AP is really great at pealing for healers.

 

I'm full AP 100% of the time now, and I'm not looking back. I'm the only one on my server from what I've seen so far. I'm sure there are others, but I've yet to see them in WZ's. I'm truly baffled by this. It's the sleeper spec of 2.0.

 

Problem with AP is that it has even less burst than gutted Pyro does. No ability hits 6k in the rotation and Immolate and Railshot CDs are too long which leaves you with awkward 'Flame Burst spam' waiting for CDs to come up. Against other premades with 2+ healers or in rateds it completely blows because you never kill anything.

 

I will definitely agree with you that it is amazing for 1v1, and I used it exclusively for about a week after 2.0 dropped and Bolster was really broken just because its defenses by far trump what Pyro has to offer and keep you up far better. I was generally 20-80k behind what I pull with Pyro. Not too bad. But what brought me back to Pyro was the burst. If I get lucky with PPA procs I can still take targets and healers down.

 

If there's a lot of deathmatching or few healers on your server, I'd definitely rep AP. As for the original topic, if 'Smuggler' means Gunslinger there's nothing you can do. Pre2.0 Snipers were my [expletive]. Now they're OP. At 55 and against good players the only classes I've seen able to reliably beat them are Lightning Sorcs and Conceal Ops.