DPS -Tactics Build and Rotation (2.0)

[xkellyx]

People have been asking for a build and a rotation for Vangaurd DPS so I wanted to write out what I have been doing. I have been rather pleased with it so far. If anyone wants to pick it apart or toss in suggestions, I am completely open to constructive criticism. As a side note this build is strictly PvE. The talent build is pretty fun in PvP but the rotation is way off.

 

First off, this is my build... 8/36/2

 

 

Secondly, here is my rotation (priority):

 

Before I start, I'll get Shoulder Cannon loaded and ready. My Opener is what I call my Burn Phase. What I try to do on my opener is weave in my Shoulder Cannon between every ability, as it doesnt respect the global cooldown and doesnt use any ammo anyway. its free damage so cram it in where you can. I feel this is more efficient then just spamming all 7 charges down.

 

Opener:

1) Battle Focus

2) Gut

3) Fire Pulse

4) Stockstrike

5) High Impact Bolt (HIB)

6) Ion Pulse x2 (to finish up building 3 charges of Pulse Generator)

7) Pulse Cannon (Make sure you have all 3 stacks when you use this for the full 60% bonus)

 

By the time you get through this burn, Bleeding is about ready to fall off, so use Gut to refresh it and then start burning through again. sometimes Stockstrike will cooldown before Fire Pulse, and that's ok... just use it as it comes.

 

As a side note, this build is very good on Energy Cell (Ammo) usage, but if you start getting a little low, use Reserve Powercell before Pulse Cannon as it uses the most resources in the rotation (25 Energy Cells). Then Recharge Cells if you're still hurting. Do your best to maintain 60% of your ammo.

 

There really isn't much to it. Pretty simple. Let me know where I can make this better. I'm all for beating stuff down harder

Edited April 26, 2013 by xkellyx
update content

[bglodt]

First your assuming your opening up right next to someone and not gap closing.

 

2. Stock strike first then gut to take advantage of proc and because it does more upfront damage

3. Don't HiB until your critical procs or you could waste it

4. In the meantime ion pulse

5. You should provably hold the line before Pulse Cannon if you are fighting a class with knockback

6. You need to be firing off shoulder cannon too as it doesn't respect GCD

 

It might be beneficial to think of ability priorities vs ability rotations. Just my 2 cents.

 

Gl/hf

 

**edit*** just saw your shoulder cannon comment ... I use them all at once while I do IP/HiB/ss.... As fast as I can push the buttons and the animation allows lol

Edited April 17, 2013 by bglodt

[xkellyx]

First your assuming your opening up right next to someone and not gap closing.

 

2. Stock strike first then gut to take advantage of proc and because it does more upfront damage

3. Don't HiB until your critical procs or you could waste it

4. In the meantime ion pulse

5. You should provably hold the line before Pulse Cannon if you are fighting a class with knockback

6. You need to be firing off shoulder cannon too as it doesn't respect GCD

 

It might be beneficial to think of ability priorities vs ability rotations. Just my 2 cents.

 

Gl/hf

 

**edit*** just saw your shoulder cannon comment ... I use them all at once while I do IP/HiB/ss.... As fast as I can push the buttons and the animation allows lol

 

2) Stockstrike first to take advantage of what proc? I use Gut First to take advantage of the tree talent Triumph which gives a 3% damage bonus to bleeding targets.

3) Are you referring to Combat Tactics? Thats the autocrit for HiB after Stockstrike

 

I just realized as I wrote this, I didn't clarify... This is strictly for PvE, although this build does work well in PvP. Thanks for the input though

Edited April 17, 2013 by xkellyx

[ChaoticDynamite]

First your assuming your opening up right next to someone and not gap closing.

 

2. Stock strike first then gut to take advantage of proc and because it does more upfront damage

3. Don't HiB until your critical procs or you could waste it

4. In the meantime ion pulse

5. You should provably hold the line before Pulse Cannon if you are fighting a class with knockback

6. You need to be firing off shoulder cannon too as it doesn't respect GCD

 

It might be beneficial to think of ability priorities vs ability rotations. Just my 2 cents.

 

Gl/hf

 

**edit*** just saw your shoulder cannon comment ... I use them all at once while I do IP/HiB/ss.... As fast as I can push the buttons and the animation allows lol

 

Use Fire Pulse before stockstrike because Fire Pulse has 100% chance to give a free stockstrike.

[JimmyTheCannon]

Looks like a great max DPS opener, with the caveat of starting right at the target as opposed to having to run in (which is rare unless you Harpoon him to you).

 

Don't forget you can use Explosive Surge to stack up your Pulse Generator between fights, so you can leave out those 2 Ion Pulses and go right into Pulse Cannon.

[bglodt]

Fire pulse first yes.

 

For me, i like Stock strike before gut because you might... 50% chance, proc auto crit HiB. I also like to open with SS (open is loosely used and i mean it as my first attack within 4 meters) because I want to use it again sooner, even 1GCD sooner, then I gut, and hopefully have an auto crit HiB now between the two.

 

That's for pvp though. Some people advocate for gut first for the slow (if specced into) and because if you get knocked back the bleed might proc the auto crit HiB which yiu can use from distance. I personally don't find the snare useful if you get knocked back since most KB has an immob on it... Still I like SS better because most good players don't immediately knock yiu back... They will save it for a better time, like when you pop the crit increase buff... Then try to distance/Los you till it's gone. I will say though most "good VGs" that play tactics will gut before SS to start the ticking and open up for HiBs... I just think SS hits so hard you want as many as possible... As soon as possible... Even meaning loosing the extra 6% damage on the initial strike.

 

Sigh... I feel like I just talked myself into conforming... Eff that... SS at 4 meters first!

[Keypek]

Fire pulse first yes.

 

For me, i like Stock strike before gut because you might... 50% chance, proc auto crit HiB. I also like to open with SS (open is loosely used and i mean it as my first attack within 4 meters) because I want to use it again sooner, even 1GCD sooner, then I gut, and hopefully have an auto crit HiB now between the two.

 

That's for pvp though. Some people advocate for gut first for the slow (if specced into) and because if you get knocked back the bleed might proc the auto crit HiB which yiu can use from distance. I personally don't find the snare useful if you get knocked back since most KB has an immob on it... Still I like SS better because most good players don't immediately knock yiu back... They will save it for a better time, like when you pop the crit increase buff... Then try to distance/Los you till it's gone. I will say though most "good VGs" that play tactics will gut before SS to start the ticking and open up for HiBs... I just think SS hits so hard you want as many as possible... As soon as possible... Even meaning loosing the extra 6% damage on the initial strike.

 

Sigh... I feel like I just talked myself into conforming... Eff that... SS at 4 meters first!

 

Kinda confused by some of what you say. SS has a 100% chance to proc auto crit for HiB not 50%. And most reasons you use gut first is because it's a 15 second DoT so the earlier you use it the more damage you get out of it if the target dies under 15 seconds.... snare helps also if pvp'in. Ideally if you are running to the target you fire pulse to get its long CD ticking and free SS up once you hit 10m range... then gut when in 4m range next... then free SS... then auto crit HiB. By the time you go through the coupld ion pulses and pulse cannon your SS will be back up (hopefully with another freebie from two ion pulses before). rinse and repeat as available.

[bglodt]

Mia culpe on the HiB crit.

 

Still when I'm closing in pvp it's sticky, FP, SS... To get both cooldowns going and get a meh burst. Gut is a good skill, it's just not my first 4m skill. If they blow a def cd that early before I can get a gut off its not going to end well for them.

 

Tactics doesn't have a whoe ton of on demand burst, and I find by starting like that I get some initial punch, as everything else takes prep time, ie gut before HiB and 2 more IPs before PC. Just saying for pvp... I like the back to back pops of those three to start.

[smellmop]

anyone have any parse numbers for this build?....or should I just stick with my slinger for dps and relegate my van to a pve tank?

[xkellyx]

I'm going to get some parse numbers going here soon. I ran some preliminary parses and ill be honest, it's looking a little sloppy at first glance. My first parses were running about 1600. However, keep a few things in mind...

 

1) My gear wasn't optimized properly yet

2) My gear item average was about 155

3) Items that don't reflect my average item lvl (ear, implant, relics, etc) still need work. After looking at my relics, I noticed pvp pieces (huh?) and so on, I see that I see a lot of room for work to be done.

4) NONE of my gear has been augmented.

 

All that said I have to say Thank You!! This is really helping my get my character to be optimized better.

 

Bottom line: parse of 1600 doesn't look impressive at all, however there is a LOT of room for improvement. As I get better geared and start running more parses and taking into acct any tips I may get from this or other threads, I'll keep adding and updating. If I could get more vanguards out there to start running this spec or others, we can start getting this class off the ground. I see a lot of people complaining that our class has been nerfed. M not saying this is unjustified, but perhaps it's too early to tell. Lets do our homework and see what we can bring to the surface. I love my van and I'm not going to shelf him anytime soon till I've picked at him from all angles.

[Dordrac]

I have a parse of about 2200 with tactics right now on a dummy. This was using the 8 36 2 build. This was also around 5 days ago where I had only around half 69 gear. Also I missed/resisted 7% of my total attacks on the dummy as my accuracy is not up to par yet.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/184819

[xkellyx]

I have a parse of about 2200 with tactics right now on a dummy. This was using the 8 36 2 build. This was also around 5 days ago where I had only around half 69 gear. Also I missed/resisted 7% of my total attacks on the dummy as my accuracy is not up to par yet.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/184819

 

Well I'm a little blown away. I looked at your parse numbers and sure enough, you are putting out some great numbers. But what I can't figure is how you are pulling the numbers you are. Looking at your log, your crits on pulse cannon are about 600points higher then what I am pulling. I've optimized my gear much better, I'm mostly in 69 gear. If I'm out-gearing you, and we have the same spec, can you please shed a little light? Where are you putting your emphasis on in stats? I've been using the old formula of aiming for 30% crit rating, 75% crit bonus, stacking Aim, and so on. Am I way off base? I mean, this isnt a matter of rotation at this point. The numbers are just higher... grossly higher lol.

 

Edit: In the case of Pulse Cannon, I never use it without Pulse Generator fully stacked

 

Thanks, in advance.

Edited April 24, 2013 by xkellyx
additional info

[Keypek]

I have a parse of about 2200 with tactics right now on a dummy. This was using the 8 36 2 build. This was also around 5 days ago where I had only around half 69 gear. Also I missed/resisted 7% of my total attacks on the dummy as my accuracy is not up to par yet.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/184819

 

This is certainly not out of the question based on op boss results I've had so far. I've been running mostly 69s (couple 66), no set bonus, mk-6 augments, blackmarket implants and earpiece, and 69 MH/OH with a full tactics build and have been hitting on average 2000 dps on ops bosses between HM TFB & SV that don't require ton of movement. I'm pretty confident I could make up a couple hundred dps on a stationary dummy.

 

And same on the accuracy problem... never thought I'd be looking for pieces with accuracy lol. Finally got my ranged back to 97% (tech 107%) last night as I was able to get some underworld gear and use some ultimate comms for a piece with accuracy on it.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Keypek

[xkellyx]

Ok... time for me to eat crow. Did some more digging and apparently the softcaps have been changed in 2.0 and up till now my gear has been WAY off the mark. My crit was entirely too high... So I have been re-modding my gear, topping out Accuracy, dropping crit and stacking power afterwards. My crit is down to about 300ish. And I am seeing a huge increase in damage. Thanks guys for the feedback. Though I have been getting misinformed by whatever sources I have used up until now, I think I have discovered my issues.

 

I know this is an elementary issue for a lot of players... I feel a little sheepish... but I'm a lot more confident in the Vanguard class for dps.

[Dordrac]

Ok... time for me to eat crow. Did some more digging and apparently the softcaps have been changed in 2.0 and up till now my gear has been WAY off the mark. My crit was entirely too high... So I have been re-modding my gear, topping out Accuracy, dropping crit and stacking power afterwards. My crit is down to about 300ish. And I am seeing a huge increase in damage. Thanks guys for the feedback. Though I have been getting misinformed by whatever sources I have used up until now, I think I have discovered my issues.

 

I know this is an elementary issue for a lot of players... I feel a little sheepish... but I'm a lot more confident in the Vanguard class for dps.

 

Yup, your crit was probably way too high. Accuracy should be topped off, but I still took my crit up to around 25%, and you should still want surge to around 70% as well. I actually haven't tested my dps with the gear I now have (mostly 69 with the blue augments temporarily and somewhat fixed accuracy to 97%.)

[Aelaias]

That rotation is what I use in pvp with one addition. I throw out a sticky after flame pulse and before SS to have its damage stack with HIB for all the burst this class can do now.

[Morpurgo]

People have been asking for a build and a rotation for Vangaurd DPS so I wanted to write out what I have been doing. I have been rather pleased with it so far. If anyone wants to pick it apart or toss in suggestions, I am completely open to constructive criticism.

 

First off, this is my build... 8/36/2

 

 

Secondly, here is my rotation (priority):

 

Before I start, I'll get Shoulder Cannon loaded and ready. My Opener is what I call my Burn Phase. What I try to do on my opener is weave in my Shoulder Cannon between every ability, as it doesnt respect the global cooldown and doesnt use any ammo anyway. its free damage so cram it in where you can. I feel this is more efficient then just spamming all 7 charges down.

 

Opener:

1) Battle Focus

2) Gut

3) Fire Pulse

4) Stockstrike

5) High Impact Bolt (HIB)

6) Ion Pulse x2 (to finish up building 3 charges of Pulse Generator)

7) Pulse Cannon (Make sure you have all 3 stacks when you use this for the full 60% bonus)

 

By the time you get through this burn, Bleeding is about ready to fall off, so use Gut to refresh it and then start burning through again. sometimes Stockstrike will cooldown before Fire Pulse, and that's ok... just use it as it comes.

 

As a side note, this build is very good on Energy Cell (Ammo) usage, but if you start getting a little low, use Reserve Powercell before Pulse Cannon as it uses the most resources in the rotation (25 Energy Cells). Then Recharge Cells if you're still hurting. Do your best to maintain 60% of your ammo.

 

There really isn't much to it. Pretty simple. Let me know where I can make this better. I'm all for beating stuff down harder

 

Problem is that by the time you are through the first 4-5 abilities you are already dead.

It probably works in pve but in pvp the burst from Tactics is simply not enough to kill.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Morpurgo

[xkellyx]

Ok putting this in big bold letters... THIS IS FOR PvE ONLY!! NOT A PVP BUILD!!!!!!

 

This thread is bugged. I cannot edit the original post at all. I have tried many many times to edit the title and I cant do it. I did, however, write in the original post that this is strictly PvE although the build works well in PvP. The Build. I stated it again in another post. I know the rotation for PvP is different.

 

To be even clearer, this is a rotation for extended fights (i.e.- raid bosses, hm bosses, testing damage parses, etc)

 

Sorry if this sounds a bit crappy, but I have repeated myself multiple times, and I am a little frustrated because I am unable to correct or edit the title on the original post. I know this is causing confusion, My frustration is pointed toward BW, not the community. You guys have been an outstanding help in helping me improve my character. Thank you

Edited April 26, 2013 by xkellyx
correcting post

[Keypek]

I now have underworld mh and pants and a couple other 72s and a couple mk-9 augs. Still no set bonuses though. But am pulling straight tactics on op dummy in the 2300s now. Tried every spec I could come up with and could not beat the 8/36/2 tactics with anything. I can actually keep tactics around 2400-2500 for 2-3 minutes but it starts to flatline as the fight goes on which is probably more user error on my part. The other specs were within 100-150 dps usually. Have had more practice post 2.0 with tactics though as it's the only thing I've used in raids since it went live so may have flaw in other spec rotations.

 

Edit: Just a note that this is my 8/36/2 build not the previously linked one. Battlefield training and reflexive shielding are debateable. Reflexie shielding provides a little damage redux but shield shouldn't be used all that often in pve and BT is not that useful in most pve but guess it would be useful in some of the SV fights for better mobility. No point in hamstring though.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Keypek

[HarbingerZealot]

Agreed on build(mostly) and rotation fully. Also check out my post for stat distribution.

 

2.0 CrowdGearing (Tactics)(PvE)

[XisscVekno]

anyone have any parse numbers for this build?....or should I just stick with my slinger for dps and relegate my van to a pve tank?

 

I ran a parser on a HM EC run I did for fun with my guild. I was spiking up to 2600 dps during my burst phases and sustaining 14-1600 dps depending on fight. I know this isn't against max level targets, but the other DPS that where in group with me where mains and had a mix of purple 66-69 stated gear with augments. I had no augments and was in all 66 blues and was able to keep up.

 

Needless to say I was shocked when I saw the numbers. I was expecting a dps increase from pre-2.0, but not this big of an increase. This has made me very happy since I didn't like Pyro at all, and I have hung up my tanking armor and this has become my new Melee raiding toon.

Edited May 3, 2013 by XisscVekno