New to PT tanking...how to maximize tanking gear?

[dcgregorya]

Seriously? The game is run on "fancy math and theorycrafting". Or did you think little gnomes run around behind the scenes and roll 20-sided dice? If that sounds a bit snarky...it's because...it is.

 

To be fair, the way that poster did their math they focuses on how to mitigate the most incoming damage without taking into account armor DR%. Armor DR% is important when weighing out augments and the relative value of endurance vs defense vs shield vs absorb because you can't get both endurance and defense on an augment and many healers and types of heals (like hots) are going to perform better with a steady but reduced incoming damage as opposed to "spiky" types of mitigation you get from defense stacking.

 

Hence, while defense stacking may give you the theoretical best total damage reduction in a world where you have infinite amount of HP, actual results may vary due to over-healing and spikes. Since neither shield nor absorb hit DR very quickly and since they both have more "% per point" yield and since shield specs gain energy for shielding attacks and can hit +absorb faster by shielding attacks, I think there's a compelling argument to stack endurance augments, shield and absorb on gear.

 

I'm a huge fan of theorycrafting but if you're going to do it, go all the way and factor in how people do healing in the game. Healers don't always have reactive heals to spikes and the hots that all healers get don't play nicely with sitting at 100% health then suddenly taking 20% of your health in one hit.

 

For the tanks right now I'd gear them like this :

 

Sin - defense > absorb > shield - augment for defense.

PT - shield > absorb > defense - augment for endurance.

Jugg - defense > shield > absorb - augment for endurance.

Edited May 21, 2013 by dcgregorya

[SgtKlavier]

Sin - defense > absorb > shield - augment for defense.

PT - shield > absorb > defense - augment for endurance.

Jugg - defense > shield > absorb - augment for endurance.

 

People need to stop assuming that tank gearing can be so cut and dry; the guideline given above does not offer any useful advice for tanks because gearing a tank is a complex balance of stats that changes with a changing stat pool and is unique to each player as they improve a gear set. If one goes by the above priorities, does that mean that a PT tank should have all absorb and zero defense (because absorb is always prioritized before defense)? Or does it mean that each stat with a higher priority must have a higher rating value than the stat below it, in which case each absorb could be 1 point higher than defense and they would be about equal. There is no simple interpretation given by such "guidelines," and thus the only way to get a true idea of how to gear a tank is to go with the numbers presented by theorycrafters.

 

In the case of having far more defense rating than absorb, the actual gains/changes in mitigation are quite marginal assuming a properly allocated stat budget, so the healer's perception of spikiness versus consistent damage is going to be very slight and most likely unnoticeable. What will be noticeable, however, is the relative ease of healing when comparing a high mitigation and high endurance allocated tank.

[Uggliey]

And stacking endurance augments is just a terrible use of the slot imo. Mitigation stats > endurance. As long as you are 35K+ HP you are fine. Hell you can really drop it down to 32K+ if your ops group heals well enough and you properly control the encounter. Stacking endurance augments to get closer to 40K HP is just going to make you a bigger waste of healer resources as you are eating that much more damage that you could of been mitigating. Stacking END augments causes you to lose 448 mitigation points. That's a huge amount.

 

I'm stacking shield higher than defense, and a minimal amount of absorb. With stim I'm at ~21% Def. ~42% shield, and ~32 absorb. with over 50% energy/kin 19% int/ele armor DR and just over 35K HP. Still lacking 72 armor mods in most gear, so numbers will go up a bit more. I keep my Heat Blast absorb bonus up more than 50% of the time so I'm usually >60% absorb. I plan to bump my absorb up a bit more as I optimize my gear.

[dcgregorya]

I'm not giving guidelines, I'm just saying what my relative prioritization is based on the current mechanics of the game. If you think healers don't notice "spikes" in damage then clearly you've never played raid heals before. 1.7 and 2.0 are not the same. The gear has significantly more endurance, heals are significantly higher and the DR curves are much less steep. Once you're in full 72's it is less important because as you noted, you'll have 35k+ HP. Edited May 22, 2013 by dcgregorya

[Marb]

Sin - defense > absorb > shield - augment for defense.

PT - shield > absorb > defense - augment for endurance.

Jugg - defense > shield > absorb - augment for endurance.

 

Choosing not to follow the optimal stat spreads is one thing, but what the hell are you talking about. Defense doesn't make you spikey. This is a pretty old argument from back in the rakata gear days.

 

Endurance is never going to win out on mitigation in a 1 to 1 ratio no matter how you feel about a deep health pool. There is never a good reason to augment for endurance, even if you want more health. And then you suggest doing this for the two classes that get the least value from endurance, yet recommend the assassin augment for defense.

 

Juggs don't have shield as a stat priority, as it comes on all enhancements and ear/implants. They can't lower it to be optimal, so they balance the value of defense with absorb.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Marb

[dcgregorya]

• Defense doesn't make you spikey. This is a pretty old argument from back in the rakata gear days.
  
• Endurance is never going to win out on mitigation in a 1 to 1 ratio no matter how you feel about a deep health pool.
  

 

1) Sure it can, if your other stats aren't up to par. Defense you either entirely avoid it or take the damage and you cannot use defense against tech and force attacks. Shield you take reduced damage, with a better success rate, against a broader variety of attacks. If you have a choice between 10% shield and 5% defense and you're gearing up - take the shield, as a PT at least.

 

2) Sure it could unless you're already way "over-tanking" the boss. Depends on how much endurance you have otherwise and where you're at on the DR curves. There's several fights where there's spikes of damage from the boss or the rest of the raid is taking damage and healers are splitting heals for a short period of time. Saying it can never possibly have value is just wrong.

Edited May 22, 2013 by dcgregorya

[frisco]

Numbers don't lie...Full 72 gear including relics, just missing main hand barrel but that doesn't add mitigation, only health and dps/threat generation. 66 barrel for now.

 

Buffed and stimmed:

Health: 39122

Armor: 10057

Mitigation: 2184(1033/881/270)

Optimized mitigation for 2184 (1034/874/275)

 

HM TFB run: http://www.torparse.com/a/231357

 

I prefer the dread guard fight on this op to compare tanking stats...it has the most pressure for pure incoming DPS perspective and there isn't much downtime compared to the other fights that are tank swaps and you wait until it's your turn to taunt.

 

incoming DPS 908.52

EPHS: 81.53 (up and personal)

Total unmitigated DPS taken: 826.98

 

Will post a HM S&V full clear when I get time.

[Marb]

1) Sure it can, if your other stats aren't up to par. Defense you either entirely avoid it or take the damage and you cannot use defense against tech and force attacks. Shield you take reduced damage, with a better success rate, against a broader variety of attacks. If you have a choice between 10% shield and 5% defense and you're gearing up - take the shield, as a PT at least.

 

2) Sure it could unless you're already way "over-tanking" the boss. Depends on how much endurance you have otherwise and where you're at on the DR curves. There's several fights where there's spikes of damage from the boss or the rest of the raid is taking damage and healers are splitting heals for a short period of time. Saying it can never possibly have value is just wrong.

 

Swtor uses a 2-roll system, its not defend or die. If you don't defend an attack, you get a roll against your shield, then the damage is adjusted down based on absorption then through to damage reduction and armor. Many boss attacks are also broken up into individual attacks that all roll against your mitigation simultaneously, each applying their own 2-roll check to each small attack. For pve, crit and surge are not relevant as boss's don't crit unless its a specific attack or mechanic.

 

Shield does work on kinetic and energy attacks that are force/tech, it doesn't work on force/tech attacks that are elemental/internal. If returns on this stat stayed like they did on the PTS, we would all be stacking shield, but only because it would act as an extension of armor. Shield is an important stat, but juggernauts don't get any more shield then they have to because of the large returns they get on defense rating, and the devaluation defense has on shield and consequently absorb, all compounded by the returns on shield/abs being adjusted before 2.0 went live.

 

You took what I said out of context, which is that health has no value in a 1 to 1 trade with mitigation, not that health has no value at all. You can twist my words all you want but endurance augments are still the worst possible choice, even for Ye Olde endurance stackers. You do need health, but you don't need any more health then what you get on high mitigation mods/enhancements and your armorings. I'm not going to sit here and go over the old arguments about endurance when there is enough information on the topic on these forums if you want/care to look for it.

 

"over-tanking" what does this even mean.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Marb