General Vengeance feedback

[Ishtharo]

I like the way to spec flows now over all. Vicious Throw is a good filler as well as Ravage. I feel tanky, but not immune to damage (as I did 1.7). Veng has decent burst with excellent sustained damage. Crit is unfortunately still important to use to burst (Impale + scream is far better than Shatter + Impale + Scream), but that isnt to much of an issue. With 150 crit rating I have a 27% force crit (77% with 1 stack of savagery), and I feel that is enough for the most part.

 

Gripes:

PvP - There isnt enough burst, you must rely on procs to burst. Now I prefer this system over all because it makes burst "situational" and not something that can be done all the time. However this is balanced against the auto-crit specs, and therefore "situational" burst isnt near as good.

 

But how do we remedy this?

There is only one change I see being needed, and that is to modify Savagery. 2 stacks, each stack adding 50% crit, however it should only proc from Shatter and Impale and also affect Vicious Throw as well as Scream. I get Vicious Throw procs from ravage thanks to Destroyer, which means I can predict when Im going to need to start in on Impale to get my Savagery buffed Vicious Throw. That one talent change would make a world of difference while trying to burst down either an unguarded healer (which are hard as hell to solo now sometimes), or a tank.

 

The second thing I have an issue with is up-time on a target.

Deadly Reprisal needs a re work. I made a thread a while ago about suggestions for Veng Uptime which the Devs responded to, and Im very happy about that. Im adding one more here, and linking the original thread.

[2.0] [suggestion] Our only slow uses 1/6th of our resource. Ahem... Booo!

 

Now for the new suggestion, which is likely easier, and accomplishes everything in that thread that i wanted:

Rework Deadly Reprisal. Add to it either a 30% speed buff, or a 50% slow while targets are affected by our bleeds.

That one change will make Veng jugs able to keep up with all the increased movement now in PvP.

 

PvE - I would honestly like to see Seething Hatred reworked for the better. As is, it is a horrible talent and comes no where close to addressing the biggest concern I find with Veng Jug in PvE, and that is the rage cost of our aggro dump. So to fix this, I suggest reworking Seathing Hatred in this manner:

Allow Saber Throw to give stacks of [insert new ability name here that replaces Seething Hatred] up to two stacks. Each stack discounts the cost of of Enraged Defense by one rage.This would allow us, after the initial dump, to use Enraged defense at a discounted rage cost every 50 seconds, or about when it is off CD.

 

Honestly, this is a change i would very much like to see, it applies almost exclusively to PvE (Due to the set bonus), could be viable in PvP, and doesnt interrupt our priority to pop enrage, when we could possibly save it for a time when we really need it.

 

Thanks for reading all, lets get some constructive thoughts below.

 

 

[EDIT]

I forgot to mention my specs I use currently.

PvP

PvE

And as a bonus, here is a screen of a Hyper Gate I just did before posting this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/B4kst4br/Screenshot_2013-04-13_15_09_02_667074_zpsd54103d2.jpg

Edited April 13, 2013 by Ishtharo

[Elyxin]

Overall, I'm happy with all the changes. I'm neutral on the Unstoppable change, and everything else IMO was great.

 

Still not a fan of the new flow, but I haven't played it long enough yet to get really adapted, so im holding out on my judgement on that (still feel like its just new to me).

 

I liked that other thread, lots of good ideas and discussion. can't comment on the PvP ideas you have up there, but I like the idea of more movement, and so far the suggestions have all been very balanced IMO.

 

also your idea for seething rage is nice...but I'm actually a fan of what it currently does as well. I spend most of my time solo, and I tend to plow through mobs fast...having those three skills available every group is nice. I'm also still getting used to not using sunder after every leap find myself capped on rage allot with the new setup, so Sunder isn't necessary immediately, and thats nice (but new). still, I like having those available, and I'd hate to get rid of it.

 

But I see no problems with adding the rage reduction to it. It is definitely needed...we still suffer from lack of CC and healing abilites, so our defensive abilities need to be more readily accessible.

[MouldyCrow]

Vengeance needs a Mortal Strike type effect. Then the lack of burst isn't as much of an issue.

 

If Jugg DPS isn't ever going to be on Par with Marauders, at least give them some utility that makes them attractive.

Edited April 15, 2013 by MouldyCrow

[Ishtharo]

Vengeance needs a Mortal Strike type effect. Then the lack of burst isn't as much of an issue.

 

If Jugg DPS isn't ever going to be on Par with Marauders, at least give them some utility that makes them attractive.

I believe Jugg in general already has utility that makes them more attractive than Mara. Force Push and intercede alone makes me like the Jug better. As far as DPS, I can usually solo a mara, but I have a mara as well so I know the moves and mechanics.

 

The above is my own opinion.

[Elyxin]

I believe Jugg in general already has utility that makes them more attractive than Mara. Force Push and intercede alone makes me like the Jug better. As far as DPS, I can usually solo a mara, but I have a mara as well so I know the moves and mechanics.

 

The above is my own opinion.

 

Plus the change to a single application of sunder = full stack is a huge boost. the ability to get that up fast is actually a DPS increase in group fights...especially those with lots of movement. Where before we could only get 1 or two stacks (if were lucky) for 8%, we get a full 20%....thats a pretty big difference in armor reduction.