Dusted off my PT...read about 2.0 changes

[thecoffeeguy]

Just resubbed after a break.

Dusted off my level 46 PT, getting ready for the double xp weekend.

Now, reading some of the forums on 2.0, it sounds like PT/Vanguards are getting bent over pretty good on some nerfs, which is disappointing.

 

I leveled with a hybrid shield tactics/advanced prototype. AP was my favorite tree. Now, reading the PTS notes (well, they are gone now), what the hell. The just gutted AP?

 

So my question is, is it as bad as it seems? Sorta disappointing. I was never a big fan of the pyro tree, mostly because thats what everyone else seem to run.

 

I'll still get to 50, but disappointed to hear whats coming in 2.0.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

[WaldoA]

I wouldn't call it a nerf. Powertechs always applied their damage far too easily, and they will continue to do so, but in 2.0 they'll simply not do as much.

[thecoffeeguy]

I wouldn't call it a nerf. Powertechs always applied their damage far too easily, and they will continue to do so, but in 2.0 they'll simply not do as much.

 

Alright. Curious to see how it goes.

Thanks.

[ScytheEleven]

I wouldn't call it a nerf. Powertechs always applied their damage far too easily, and they will continue to do so, but in 2.0 they'll simply not do as much.

 

...er, yeah, it's a nerf.

[WaldoA]

...er, yeah, it's a nerf.

 

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

[ScytheEleven]

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

 

For PVE content, yes, it is a nerf. If you examine the parses, the only viable PT DPS spec is now a hybrid build...though judging from past hybrids that out-DPS their full tree counterparts (i.e. eng/lethality hybrid), it will get nerfed.

 

PVE wise, the 50% damage reduction for CGC dropped PT DPS to 2nd lowest when all things are equal. You'll see that many parses have PT's hitting 2500 DPS and you'll think "oh they're fine!" but those numbers were scored using 2.0 stim, 2.0 adrenal (which is a huge huge boost), and 2.0 augments (which give +36 main stat). Compare that 2500 to other classes using the same (2.0 stim, adrenal, augments), and PT's are about 100 (Sorcs/Sages, Juggs) to 200 DPS (Mara/Sniper) behind other classes. Even Operatives now have us beat by a little bit.

 

So yes, a nerf.

[af_raptura]

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

 

its all relative. If smashers had their autocrit removed, is that a nerf? If leaps and pulls now worked on a sniper in cover, is that a nerf?

 

Of course, they also nerfed AP, which no one ever stated was close to OP.

[Luxidenstore]

I wouldn't call it a nerf. Powertechs always applied their damage far too easily, and they will continue to do so, but in 2.0 they'll simply not do as much.

 

You don't know what you're talking about. He specifically talked about AP, moron.

 

And Pyro is also bad now, while we have no CC or real utility to speak of in PvE and we could go tank, but sadly, we're also the weakest tank.

 

OP, you're better off spending the precious double XP time on another class the way things are going right now.

[Demonsong]

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

 

If that's what they are doing then Marauders should be hit with a sledge hammer... but they are not.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Demonsong

[KainrycKarr]

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

 

Sorry, but how did AP need a nerf? It was already underpowered.

[thecoffeeguy]

OP, you're better off spending the precious double XP time on another class the way things are going right now.

 

Thats kinda what I was afraid to hear.

[SneiK]

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

 

You are not seriously talking about AP?

[Kooziejr]

Bringing a class back down to where they should be is a nerf?

 

Like... you are clearly an idiot. The class isn't OP...one spec is OP and we all know it. Pyro has been insanely overpowered since... well since launch. Advanced prototype and Shield tech are harder to play, require more skill and AP certainly does not have high damage output even when you do great AOE damage. So what i'm trying to say is you need to **** and l2p.

[Ugolino]

Like... you are clearly an idiot. The class isn't OP...one spec is OP and we all know it. Pyro has been insanely overpowered since... well since launch. Advanced prototype and Shield tech are harder to play, require more skill and AP certainly does not have high damage output even when you do great AOE damage. So what i'm trying to say is you need to **** and l2p.

 

Just accept bioware dislikes you and that you'll never be snipers.

[KainrycKarr]

Just accept bioware dislikes you and that you'll never be snipers.

 

AP is melee, so whatever you're trying to say...it's wrong.

[Ugolino]

AP is melee, so whatever you're trying to say...it's wrong.

 

I'm saying that any PVP viability you might have with any Bounty Hunter spec is an accidental fluke. Bioware wants you to be second fiddle, always, and inherently inferior to their pet classes for DPS or healing.

[APeckenpaugh]

Hey guys. I've seen a lot of posts about "nerfs" to Advanced Prototype. In reality, AP was nerfed only on PTS. For 2.0, we initially made some errors in AP's balance, which we later corrected on the PTS.

 

Players coming to 2.0 straight from the live game will not see any nerfs to Advanced Prototype. Some damage has been moved from some skills and put into other skills, but AP is not getting nerfed from the live game to 2.0. In fact, like every other skill tree, AP is receiving the appropriate amount of damage increases to see it hitting new targets at level 55.

[JarenWelen]

Hey guys. I've seen a lot of posts about "nerfs" to Advanced Prototype. In reality, AP was nerfed only on PTS. For 2.0, we initially made some errors in AP's balance, which we later corrected on the PTS.

 

Players coming to 2.0 straight from the live game will not see any nerfs to Advanced Prototype. Some damage has been moved from some skills and put into other skills, but AP is not getting nerfed from the live game to 2.0. In fact, like every other skill tree, AP is receiving the appropriate amount of damage increases to see it hitting new targets at level 55.

 

Whilst we appreciate that this may be the case in terms of damage, many of us feel, as pointed out extensively in posts on the PTS forums which have since been removed, that losing the uniqueness of our ability Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line is, if I may put it bluntly, a bit of a "screw you" to the Advanced Prototype/Tactics community.

 

I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread but if so, we would really appreciate it if you could tell us (without going into details) whether anything is being planned to bring something back to this tree. For some players, Hold the Line was one of the only reasons to play AP/Tactics, and despite its 2 second buff, its availablity to everyone cheapens the tree. I understand the reasons given for making it available to Commandos/Mercs, though believe that a better solution could have been implemented, but for the other Vanguards/PTs not so much.

 

This was one of the major gripes about 2.0 PTs/Vanguards that seems to have been overlooked due to the complaints following the 14th March patch. AP/Tactics needs something unique to bring to a team now, as it stands our major selling point is PFT/PG and that, as discussed before, has issues when trying to get all ticks off, particularly in PvP.

 

Edit: I am not suggesting that HO/HtL be restored to AP/Tactics only. One can only imagine the outcry of such a reversion. But instead I'm asking that Tactics be given something to differentiate ourselves as we used to, to bring back the surprise factor we've now lost. There are many suggestions around the forums; a knockdown, damage buff against <30% health opponents, root, snares (many of these would also fix our PFT/PG issues), we ask that they are at least considered.

 

I had a large thread about this on the PTS forums that sadly never received a response, it would be great if you could please give us some sort of comment. As it stands, a lot of AP/Tactics players are feeling a bit cheated.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply above, the communication means a lot to us all.

 

Thanks,

J

Edited March 29, 2013 by JarenWelen

[ScytheEleven]

Hey guys. I've seen a lot of posts about "nerfs" to Advanced Prototype. In reality, AP was nerfed only on PTS. For 2.0, we initially made some errors in AP's balance, which we later corrected on the PTS.

 

Players coming to 2.0 straight from the live game will not see any nerfs to Advanced Prototype. Some damage has been moved from some skills and put into other skills, but AP is not getting nerfed from the live game to 2.0. In fact, like every other skill tree, AP is receiving the appropriate amount of damage increases to see it hitting new targets at level 55.

 

We do appreciate your response, but a lot of us are very concerned about the damage output that AP/Tactics does.

 

You can't really say that in a raid, the damage AP does will be viable given 1) other class armor debuffs or 2) sub-30% health burning phases.

 

An armor-debuff does nothing for AP (or Pyro spec for that matter), since 90% of the base attacks are elemental and bypass armor anyway. The only ability that gains is Rail Shot.

 

For sub-30% health burn phases, AP/Tactics has no "execute" move, as in no ability to deal extra damage to target's below 30% health (Sniper's Takedown, Mara's Vicious Throw, Pyro's Burnout ability).

 

I know you guys do not like to use dummy parses as a measure of damage, but for an AP/Tactics build it's a very accurate assessment (because as I pointed out, the two factors above do nothing for an AP/Tactics spec). As it stands right now, it is nowhere close to the other classes. Very few people actually run AP/Tactics even on live currently because the damage output is not that good.

 

Initial buffs to AP in 2.0 on the PTS were solid, but they've been taken away. Many of us would like to see those back with a few additions to make AP a great spec to take into competitive raiding...because as it stands right now, it is not. Why take a PT/VG AP/Tactics spec (which is essentially melee) over a Mara, who brings great utility (Predation, Bloodthirst, insane damage)? There's really no reason. And truth be told, when you are in a raiding guild, you will be asked to sit one of your characters in favor of a better one so your group can clear content easier.

 

Please, look into AP more before 2.0 hits. It does need help.

 

EDIT: In regards to the 20% armor debuff put on targets from other classes, I made a mistake. Rail Shot, Rocket Punch, and the direct hit from Retractable Blade all gain from it. However, the core rotation for AP revolves around Flame Burst, Immolate, and PT Flamethrower, all of which are elemental. Thus, an armor debuff really doesn't help us out too much.

Edited March 30, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[KainrycKarr]

Hey guys. I've seen a lot of posts about "nerfs" to Advanced Prototype. In reality, AP was nerfed only on PTS. For 2.0, we initially made some errors in AP's balance, which we later corrected on the PTS.

 

Players coming to 2.0 straight from the live game will not see any nerfs to Advanced Prototype. Some damage has been moved from some skills and put into other skills, but AP is not getting nerfed from the live game to 2.0. In fact, like every other skill tree, AP is receiving the appropriate amount of damage increases to see it hitting new targets at level 55.

 

Excuse me, but we took a net 2% dps loss from our cylinder, and with the surge taken from flame burst and placed onto retractable blade, we lose considerably more dps. Flame burst is higher damage, longer range, and elemental, thus benefitting from our cylinder. Retractable blade does considerably less base damage, more than half the range, and does not even benefit from our cylinder.

 

would love to hear your theories and how that is anything but a nerf.

[BigjoeHoe]

PT's are where they should be for DPS wise cant have the easiest rotation in the game and be able to pull top numbers now that Full Pryospec is better and you have to watch your heat more only good PT's are gonna be pulling good numbers it is a bit of a joke with there AOE DoT though...

[KainrycKarr]

PT's are where they should be for DPS wise cant have the easiest rotation in the game and be able to pull top numbers now that Full Pryospec is better and you have to watch your heat more only good PT's are gonna be pulling good numbers it is a bit of a joke with there AOE DoT though...

 

And what of AP?

[Luxidenstore]

PT's are where they should be for DPS wise cant have the easiest rotation in the game and be able to pull top numbers now that Full Pryospec is better and you have to watch your heat more only good PT's are gonna be pulling good numbers it is a bit of a joke with there AOE DoT though...

 

Translation: "Herp de la derpa derp. I have problems reading and comprehending even the simplest senetences, but since this thread is located in the Powertech subforums, I'll post my uninformed complaint about the Pyro Powertech that owned me in a WZ yesterday while I was backpedaling away on my new, shiny Focus Sentinel. Btw, this AP this thread speak of? *** is that lol?"

 

Btw. Number padding AoE dmg while killing noone is as effective as shooting yourself in the head with a shotgun to make a headache go away.

 

Hey guys. I've seen a lot of posts about "nerfs" to Advanced Prototype. In reality, AP was nerfed only on PTS. For 2.0, we initially made some errors in AP's balance, which we later corrected on the PTS.

 

Players coming to 2.0 straight from the live game will not see any nerfs to Advanced Prototype. Some damage has been moved from some skills and put into other skills, but AP is not getting nerfed from the live game to 2.0. In fact, like every other skill tree, AP is receiving the appropriate amount of damage increases to see it hitting new targets at level 55.

 

Wow, just.... Wow. While I do appreciate at least a response, since it does show you're at least reading the posts, saying that a spec that is already bad on Live servers has not been nerfed on the PTS, really isn't a valid excuse. At least we used to be able to spec pyro and faceroll our way to victory, now we have 3 underperforming specs. Honestly, we both know that the Pyro rotation is stupidly simple and what time is better to make several key adjustments to a class and/or spec than.... I don't know.... An "expansion"?

Edited March 30, 2013 by Luxidenstore

[ScytheEleven]

PT's are where they should be for DPS wise cant have the easiest rotation in the game and be able to pull top numbers now that Full Pryospec is better and you have to watch your heat more only good PT's are gonna be pulling good numbers it is a bit of a joke with there AOE DoT though...

 

Fun fact: full Pyro build is still inferior DPS wise for PVE. Dropping TD and putting points into other talents yields around a 30 DPS increase.

 

Nice try though, come back soon

[xxIncubixx]

Fun fact: full Pyro build is still inferior DPS wise for PVE. Dropping TD and putting points into other talents yields around a 30 DPS increase.

 

Nice try though, come back soon

 

he means pvp , the nerfs and buffs were focused on pvp, balancing pve is easy.