Gramps Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Hey there. I personally came over to SWTOR from arguably the 'best' F2P game on the market, which got its direct feedback from its sister f2p game which were developed by the same company. Because of my experiences with both of those games I've been able to have a long term grasp of what works and what doesn't in those games. I believe based on my time here, that some of these following items could work here aswell. -MOUNTS. You can have an artist rip through a couple dozen of these, and/or have a community 'contest' where we submit drawings for cartel exclusive mounts. Each month, or every other month release a new one. Have very special mounts cartel exclusive for special events like Expansions, anniversary's ect. -Class specific mounts. This is where your artists (and the community) can really shine. What would a Sith Marauder's mount look like? What about a Commando? -World specific mounts. -Additional speed, difficulty to be dismounted. Yes ppl in the community will get pissed. So tell them to either suck it up, you've got bills to pay OR throw in the new fast speed on a random rep grind mount and call it a day. People will get over it. -CONSUMABLES Mana. These should be a med. amount base restore with a HoT effect with additional. Low cooldown. You want us to eat through these things. The 'world firsts' groups and most raiders will absolutely tear through these. Health. Same as above. Lower total restore then top tier crafted, but with a much lower cooldown. Raiders and PvP folk will buy a boat load of these. Immunity to CC These are where your pvp crowd really dump some cash. Basically additional trinkets. You can scale them based on pvp rank, with the higher tier pots having a shorter cooldown with a longer effect costing most. You can make them as consumable pots, or permanent brands. I personally like 'brands' with a lowest tier brand being something like "breaks CC if one is applied, Immunity to CC for 2s, 6hr cooldown" something really bad. With a top tier brand being something like "breaks CC if one is applied, Immunity to CC for 20s, 5m cooldown" something really good. Chance to crit on crew skill, chance to reverse engineer. Adds income from a totally separate player base. Take some engineering time I'm sure, to code them in. But once done giving players an additional 20% to Reverse Engineer, or 20% for a crit is something that people would buy. Run Speed Very simple, but popular in every game I've played that offered them. Usable in Warzones, flashpoints, ect. Stackable with other run speed buffs. Stat tomes. These things are amazingly popular and the #1 best seller each month (in total income just above mounts) Tiered Tomes, starting with a very basic +10 Strength usable at any lv, followed by a stackable +20 Strength must be lv 15, followed by a stackable +50 Strength must be lv 25...so on and so forth. Add them to the store as bundles too. These will be your number one money maker with out a doubt. In addition to all that, where you WILL get players saying "Add these I'll unsub" or "OMG sign me up" or "This isn't *name game here*" you must must must add a way for players to earn coins in game. Be it through your achievements, or rep, or as very rare drops. My biggest issue with your current F2P is your going to get a ton of players who would stay and play IF they had a CHANCE of getting coins in game. The benefit of giving a few coins to these players is that say they have 150 coins, but they're 100 short for that mount they want. Some will leave the game before they purchase, some will continue to grind and purchase, but some will say screw it, I'm just going to buy coins. The main goal of being F2P is getting people to stay logged in. Thats it. If they we stay logged in and there is something we want, chances are, one way or another we're going to buy it. As it stands right now there isn't alot in the store when its all said and done. You've got Armour, and mounts. Legacy perks if I had to guess would be one of your top sellers so I would expand on that aswell. Kthx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Agree on the ,outs the others however are waaay too close to P2W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Considering you're talking about "stat tomes" I can only guess that the "best" F2P game means DDO, and its sister game being LotRO... What works for those games wouldn't work in a straight copy paste to SW:TOR - the whole stat tomes thing would instantly kill the PvP community (something DDO doesn't have to worry about) because it is outright P2W. Edited March 26, 2013 by Callaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 -CONSUMABLES Mana. These should be a med. amount base restore with a HoT effect with additional. Low cooldown. You want us to eat through these things. The 'world firsts' groups and most raiders will absolutely tear through these. Health. Same as above. Lower total restore then top tier crafted, but with a much lower cooldown. Raiders and PvP folk will buy a boat load of these. Immunity to CC These are where your pvp crowd really dump some cash. Basically additional trinkets. You can scale them based on pvp rank, with the higher tier pots having a shorter cooldown with a longer effect costing most. You can make them as consumable pots, or permanent brands. I personally like 'brands' with a lowest tier brand being something like "breaks CC if one is applied, Immunity to CC for 2s, 6hr cooldown" something really bad. With a top tier brand being something like "breaks CC if one is applied, Immunity to CC for 20s, 5m cooldown" something really good. These three items would be "must have" for any PvP encounter and any operation, after a while probably for every HM-FP... and therefore I cannot stress the "NOOOOO" long enough. Cartel market items may never become a "must have", or else we finally arrived at Pay to Win for sure. Also, the "mana" thing you suggest would take the most critical part of playing your char away... namely ressource management. If you could just consume "mana potions" like water, and never worry about running out of ressources, absolutely every boss fight would suddenly be laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 After re-reading my OP this morning just wanted to clarify abit about mounts-I realize you already do this, I'm just hoping for more more more. To the replies: P2W. As someone who's been through this whole argument before, in total honestly and in no way am I trying to minimize your concerns but, it just doesn't end up being this way. Take Tomes as an example. I can throw-up any random numbers for tomes. But its on the devs to find a balance. Based on current mods available in game, based on feedback from the community and based on the war-room/round-table of devs throwing ideas against a wall. If you look at it objectively, adding (for arguments sake) a set of 5-tomes that would add 250 Aim, when you're sitting at 1500 aim now, Is that P2W? Is that something thats going to break content? No, I dont think so. Also look at current legacy perks. Some legacy perks add +stat based on buffs. Would tomes be any different? Again, no I dont think so. Additionally an argument has been made in the past that it further separates 'end-game' players, or those with deep pockets from the casual playerbase. When in fact it actually lowers the gap between those playstyles. Diminishing Returns. Those with avg (or worse) gear that use a full tome set vs a player with 'end-game' mods/gear/ect, the avg player gets a much larger benefit from tomes. In a game that is largely a 'gear-check' game vs 'skill-check' this can only go to improve overall balance in classes, players and content. Speaking of content. I agree that skill/resource management is something that should be a priory for the dev teams. I dont think anyone wants content that you can face-roll. However, this is on the dev teams. It comes down to money when its all said and done. If the Live Team thinks that adding consumable pots to the store is a good business decision then they will simply walk down the hall, knock on the door of the content teams and they will in turn have to do a pass on content that requires us the players to be aware of our resources. Dont forget that management of your resources is what separates a good player from a bad player. If you've got one of each, both with consumable store pots in an encounter that turns into a dps race at 10%. The Good player SHOULD know to keep his pots open for that 10%. The bad player will USUALLY use them much earlier and suffer cooldown/drawbacks. Finally, yes. Lotro/DDO. However Lotro being the 'best' DDO being the 'sister' Everything Lotro F2P launched with was a direct result of DDOs success. I also acknowledge that everything that works for those games wouldn't work here. Which is why I left out many many other things that I felt wouldn't fit. These I believe would work. I would require some work. Balance, community input, community damage control and a set of stones. But in the end, it will pay more bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 If you look at it objectively, adding (for arguments sake) a set of 5-tomes that would add 250 Aim, when you're sitting at 1500 aim now, Is that P2W? Is that something thats going to break content? No, I dont think so. Also look at current legacy perks. Some legacy perks add +stat based on buffs. Would tomes be any different? Again, no I dont think so. Yet you do agree, that it does make a difference, even if only a small one. You are talking ov 250 Aim, when sitting at 1500... that is a 16% buff on top of anything else, that is already mandatory. And the absolute only way to get it, would be by paying real money. Dont forget that management of your resources is what separates a good player from a bad player. If you've got one of each, both with consumable store pots in an encounter that turns into a dps race at 10%. The Good player SHOULD know to keep his pots open for that 10%. The bad player will USUALLY use them much earlier and suffer cooldown/drawbacks. The point made is, that both the good and the bad player in your scenario use the potion, which is only available for real money. You do not challenge the fact that a potion would be a visible gameplay advantage at all and that exactly is pay to win. Paying more bills sounds good at first glance, but if you force subscribers to spend additional money to be competitive still, then many subscribers will pay no more bills to EA. Cartel Market can have all kind of nice items, but the moment an item of the CM is mandatory to get a job done, BW irreevocably crossed the last line of defense(or dignity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wefi Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Whats this... mana you talking about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukaShen Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 YES. There should be a way to gain cartel coins in game (even if it is just a small ammount for things like map completions, world bosses, hardmode operations, chapter completions, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 Yet you do agree, that it does make a difference, even if only a small one. You are talking ov 250 Aim, when sitting at 1500... that is a 16% buff on top of anything else, that is already mandatory. And the absolute only way to get it, would be by paying real money. Agree fully. The point made is, that both the good and the bad player in your scenario use the potion, which is only available for real money. You do not challenge the fact that a potion would be a visible gameplay advantage at all and that exactly is pay to win. There is no challenge to be made here. I could say that 'pay to win' is a bit of hyperbole, then you'll just say its not. So I'll leave it as is. Bottom line, it pays the bills. Paying more bills sounds good at first glance, but if you force subscribers to spend additional money to be competitive still, then many subscribers will pay no more bills to EA. Seen this argument and tbh, when its all said and done Bioware will weigh the amount of players who will leave the game (There will be a few) against the increased amount of income from those that stay. Which ever is more is the decision they make. Its very simple math. I usually try to stay away from the way ppl word their concerns, but your really reaching here. "Force" "Competitive" This is flat out hyperbole, tinfoil hat. Paying the bills is all that matters. Specifically for Bioware. They went F2P because they had to. They will continue to push the boundaries of the playerbase, pushing to see whats acceptable for the Cartel Market. This is the way of F2P. Everysingle last F2P MMO has done this. Lemme tell ya, Bioware's Live team (Store team) has a white board COVERED with things they want to put in the store right now today. Chances are most of these OP suggestions are already on there. Cartel Market can have all kind of nice items, but the moment an item of the CM is mandatory to get a job done, BW irreevocably crossed the last line of defense(or dignity). Is it mandatory to buy the expansion? No of course not. Are you going to buy it? Of course you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) They will continue to push the boundaries of the playerbase, pushing to see whats acceptable for the Cartel Market. Ecactly, which is why we (as the playerbase) should state clear, that we (each individual on their own) would not accept such potions, tomes or stims, which can only be bought on the cartel market and would make a significant difference in the chars performance. To me, such "cartel market stims" would be unacceptable and I sincerely hope, that you are a insignificant minority in accpeting them. The difference in buying the expansion (which I do see as mandatory) is, that it is a "buy once" thing, not some consumable, which I would have to buy on top of my subscription everytime I want to do an OP or go PvP. Edited March 27, 2013 by JPryde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossesman Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Like the idea of class specific mounts, but they really shouldnt be on the cartel market imo, they should be obtainable ingame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts