2.0 Carnage Slaughter Skill

[Ceile]

I'm having problems trying to work Slaughter's affects into my rotation.

When Slaughter procs, there are 2 paths that I see.

1. Use Gore + Viscous immediately

2. Save Gore and Use Viscous

I can see the simplicity of the second path, but my gut feeling is that not using Gore when it is off CD, is sub-optimal.

 

Do any more proficient Carnage Marauders have any ideas on how to incorporate Slaughter's effects?

[IAmViiOLENT]

I'm having problems trying to work Slaughter's affects into my rotation.

When Slaughter procs, there are 2 paths that I see.

1. Use Gore + Viscous immediately

2. Save Gore and Use Viscous

I can see the simplicity of the second path, but my gut feeling is that not using Gore when it is off CD, is sub-optimal.

 

Do any more proficient Carnage Marauders have any ideas on how to incorporate Slaughter's effects?

Im using massacre in the first gore, and almost always get the proc for the next gore immediately (once I get it I then scream), I then BA and gore>VT>Ravage and scream

[TradeLA]

For clarification for those not on the PTS--and from my own observations--what the tooltip for Slaughter does not mention is that it ONLY finishes the cooldown on Gore the first time you hit Gore. In other words:

 

He hits Gore, then Massacre until the Slaughter effect kicks in, finishing the cooldown on Gore. Then he hits Battering Assault and Gore again...only THIS time, Slaughter does NOT refresh Gore. Slaughter will not work again until the THIRD time you hit Gore--then after a massacre or two or three, Gore refreshes. It gets hard, with so many things to keep track of, to remember if you are on a "refreshable" Gore, or a non-refreshable one that takes the full 15 second cooldown.

 

In fact, from my observations, if you hit a "refreshable" gore, and end combat before hitting a non-freshable one, when you start combat again, you will start with the non-refreshable one.

 

In addition, even with a 45% chance that each massacre will trigger slaughter, with the randomization, there's a significant chance you're going to need more than two or three massacres to trigger it, and thereby miss your window to hit Force Scream while Gore is active.

 

I'm trying to figure out why they made these changes, and what the bottom line effect is, and what I come up with is this:

 

Bioware doesn't like Marauder's having the current 15-second cycles based around the Gore cooldown--Gore-Ravage-FS, then Gore-Massacrex2 or 3-FS. Things have been significantly complicated and randomized, making it more difficult--if not impossible--to map out a rotation.

[Xerain]

I'm having problems trying to work Slaughter's affects into my rotation.

When Slaughter procs, there are 2 paths that I see.

1. Use Gore + Viscous immediately

2. Save Gore and Use Viscous

I can see the simplicity of the second path, but my gut feeling is that not using Gore when it is off CD, is sub-optimal.

 

Do any more proficient Carnage Marauders have any ideas on how to incorporate Slaughter's effects?

 

How long is the buff for the vicious throw?

 

In a pvp standpoint I might wait for scream to come off CD before using gore>scream>vt

[Mandor]

How long is the buff for the vicious throw?

 

In a pvp standpoint I might wait for scream to come off CD before using gore>scream>vt

 

15 seconds

[Ceile]

Bioware doesn't like Marauder's having the current 15-second cycles based around the Gore cooldown--Gore-Ravage-FS, then Gore-Massacrex2 or 3-FS. Things have been significantly complicated and randomized, making it more difficult--if not impossible--to map out a rotation.

 

I actually don't think this is what they're doing.

Think about it. Slaughter has an almost 50% chance to finish the cooldown on Gore every 20s and Gore lasts about 4s.

So this is possible. (Also, a massacre can proc 2 ataru form hits. One for the guaranteed and one for the random chance)

Berserk > Gore > Massacre x3 > Force Scream > Gore > Ravage > Viscious Throw.

If we line up enough rage and fury, we can pop this every 20s or so.

 

At least, that's what I'm thinking.

Bioware doesn't seem to make Carnage more random, but instead make it more bursty.

[TradeLA]

I actually don't think this is what they're doing.

Think about it. Slaughter has an almost 50% chance to finish the cooldown on Gore every 20s and Gore lasts about 4s.

So this is possible. (Also, a massacre can proc 2 ataru form hits. One for the guaranteed and one for the random chance)

Berserk > Gore > Massacre x3 > Force Scream > Gore > Ravage > Viscious Throw.

If we line up enough rage and fury, we can pop this every 20s or so.

 

At least, that's what I'm thinking.

Bioware doesn't seem to make Carnage more random, but instead make it more bursty.

 

Multiple reasons why this is not just difficult, but impossible to implement, and wouldn't produce optimal results even if it was possible.

 

For one, the cooldown on Ravage is 30 seconds, not 20. Second, Force Scream's cooldown is 9 seconds, so if you do this, you're missing every other Force Scream. Third, you're not incorporating Dual Saber Strike, the new attack that hits about 40% harder than massacre and costs no rage (15 second CD on that one).

 

You're also using two of the six charges that berserk gives you at 30% increased alacrity on Gore, which is an instant attack with no cooldown. Not only does it waste those two charges, it shortens the period that Berserk is in effect, during which all abilities on CD cooldown 30% faster as well.

 

As far as I can tell, the best use of berserk is with Ravage, because Ravage is three seconds long (before alacrity adjustment) and though it is actually three strikes, it only costs one Berserk charge.

 

I'm certainly open to the possibility of a set rotation and would eagerly use it if someone finds it, but there are far more variables involved here than before, and if there is a set rotation, it's going to be very difficult to find. Hope others will join the conversation and comment on this.

[arkitip]

Multiple reasons why this is not just difficult, but impossible to implement, and wouldn't produce optimal results even if it was possible.

 

For one, the cooldown on Ravage is 30 seconds, not 20. Second, Force Scream's cooldown is 9 seconds, so if you do this, you're missing every other Force Scream. Third, you're not incorporating Dual Saber Strike, the new attack that hits about 40% harder than massacre and costs no rage (15 second CD on that one).

 

You're also using two of the six charges that berserk gives you at 30% increased alacrity on Gore, which is an instant attack with no cooldown. Not only does it waste those two charges, it shortens the period that Berserk is in effect, during which all abilities on CD cooldown 30% faster as well.

 

As far as I can tell, the best use of berserk is with Ravage, because Ravage is three seconds long (before alacrity adjustment) and though it is actually three strikes, it only costs one Berserk charge.

 

I'm certainly open to the possibility of a set rotation and would eagerly use it if someone finds it, but there are far more variables involved here than before, and if there is a set rotation, it's going to be very difficult to find. Hope others will join the conversation and comment on this.

 

Neither Ravage nor Gore consume stacks of Berserk AFAIK. I didn't get a chance to double check myself, but when I posed that thought along with some others on the PTS forum someone went and checked to make sure they didn't. Berserk (and alacrity period) do not affect Ravage at all currently.

 

Also, regarding Massacre vs. Double Blade Throw, the limited testing I did had Massacre out DPSing it during Gore the majority of the time.

[TradeLA]

Neither Ravage nor Gore consume stacks of Berserk AFAIK. I didn't get a chance to double check myself, but when I posed that thought along with some others on the PTS forum someone went and checked to make sure they didn't. Berserk (and alacrity period) do not affect Ravage at all currently.

 

Also, regarding Massacre vs. Double Blade Throw, the limited testing I did had Massacre out DPSing it during Gore the majority of the time.

 

Tested the effect of Berserk on Gore and Ravage and you are right about that. Regarding Massacre vs. Double Blade Throw, harder to judge...

[Ceile]

I'm certainly open to the possibility of a set rotation and would eagerly use it if someone finds it, but there are far more variables involved here than before, and if there is a set rotation, it's going to be very difficult to find. Hope others will join the conversation and comment on this.

 

I've spent about 30 minutes just working out something, but even then I can't come up with anything that is useful.

This is all I've can come up with, but I've listed all it's issues:

Berserk > Gore > 2/3 Massacre > DST > Gore > Ravage > FS > VT > 15s of "offtime"

This has the following problems:

Ravage won't be up whenever it resets.

I do not know if it's possible to build both Fury and Rage during the off time.

We leave DST and FS off CD a long time.

 

I think that (Gore > Massacres > DST > Gore > Ravage > FS > VT) is a good idea because is leaves a large amount of time to build up Slaughter and Execute while using all of our heavy hitters.

But a more spread out rotation could be better.

 

Please tear this to shreds so I can make a better one.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Ceile

[Ceile]

Here is another possible rotation that I've been working on.

 

Gore > FS > Ravage/Mass. + DST > Mass. x3 > Bat. Assault > Gore > DST/Mass. > VT > FS > 10s of "off time"

 

Here's the list of issues with this rotation:

Ravage is left off cooldown for a large amount of time, about 20s.

Berserk is not used currently.

I do not know if it's possible to build rage and Fury for each rotation.

 

Here's why I like this:

It uses every useful and hard-hitting ability within a Gore window.

It has a 99.65% to build a slaughter with just the Massacre x3 between Gores.

It has a >80% chance to build an Execute between both FS.

(I don't know the exact chance, but I'm betting around 85% or 90%)

Berserk could be integrated easily for the Masscre x3 and the next Gore.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Ceile

[TradeLA]

Here is another possible rotation that I've been working on.

 

Gore > FS > Ravage/Mass. + DST > Mass. x3 > Bat. Assault > Gore > DST/Mass. > VT > FS > 10s of "off time"

 

Here's the list of issues with this rotation:

Ravage is left off cooldown for a large amount of time, about 20s.

Berserk is not used currently.

I do not know if it's possible to build rage and Fury for each rotation.

 

Here's why I like this:

It uses every useful and hard-hitting ability within a Gore window.

It has a 99.65% to build a slaughter with just the Massacre x3 between Gores.

It has a >80% chance to build an Execute between both FS.

(I don't know the exact chance, but I'm betting around 85% or 90%)

Berserk could be integrated easily for the Masscre x3 and the next Gore.

 

I've been working with something similar--

 

(check other thread here--

the otherhttp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601630&page=5)

 

--in that I'm putting FS at the beginning of the first Gore window and at the end of the second. But you're building your rotation around Ravage's 30 second cooldown, using it every 30 secs by lengthening the window between the two Gores. So you're getting more Ravages, but fewer Gores. I think Gore and FS w/execute are both higher priority than Ravage in the new carnage set-up. Gore>VT>Massacre>FS is pretty close to Gore>Ravage>FS in damage. As you've pointed out, those DST's are generally weaker than Massacre. The DSTs do, however, spend no rage. On the other hand, they build neither rage nor fury either. I'm not using them at all right now.

 

Also, if you incorporate Berserk where you proposed, I don't think you'll be able to build up the fury to pop it on every rotation. I could be wrong, but while Berserk is active, those Massacres, Gores,etc are using up charges of Berserk instead of building Fury for another go round. Then in your 10 seconds of downtime/rage building, you have to pop a lot of Assaults, none of which build Fury either. Then the only other Fury builders you're using in your first Gore window are Gore and FS. You need eight 4-point fury builders after your last charge of Berserk to hit 30 stacks of Fury and pop Berserk again.

 

Maybe we should move this back over to the other thread to consolidate the discussion.