Are Commandos really as weak in PvP as everyone says?

[Dabrixmgp]

I keep hearing how Commandos, both specs, are gimped in PvP. Scoundrels are much better as healers and sages have shields so what does a Commando healer bring? Also why do people say the DPS specs are just as bad? I mean why would I want to roll a Commando over a Smash-monkey or a Shadow or a Gunslinger? I know you should just play whats fun for you. But if fun was a non-factor why would you want a Commando on your team over the other classes I mentioned? Edited January 4, 2013 by Dabrixmgp

[Kitru]

Commandos are generally reviled in PvP for a very simple reason: they are a functional turret class that has no turret protections or burst mobility.

 

By "turret class" I refer to the fact that, in order to be effective, they have to just stand there and cast: Gunnery is all about Grav Round and Full Auto (HiB and Demo Round require multiple Grav Round casts in order to deal damage effectively and Full Auto is the big, heavy hitter of the spec), Assault is all about Charged Bolts and Full Auto (both are required to get HiB CD resets), and Combat Medic relies on MP and AMP for a vast majority of its healing (Hammer Shot is marginal healing at best, Bacta Infusion is on a 21 sec CD, and Kolto Bomb is on a 6 second CD; to get decent healing, you've *got* to use AMP and MP to fill in the empty GCDs).

 

"Turret protections" refers to the benefits that Gunslingers get while in cover: they are immune to leaps, pushback, and interrupts, and get a 15-20% increased defense chance against ranged attacks; this means that, even though they aren't able to effectively move around while attacking, they are harder to close with (thanks to being immune to leaps), can still stand and cast while they are being beat on (immune to interrupts and pushback), and, if they are fighting someone that can blast them from range, they're sturdier to account for the decreased mobility.

 

"Burst mobility" is relatively simple: it's the ability to move reasonably long tactical distances in short time frames on reasonably short CD. In WoW, Mage Blink is burst mobility. In TOR, Consular Force Speed is burst mobility. For ranged classes, it's important because it allows you to recreate protective distance after you have been closed with. Since all melee classes have a gap closer of some kind (Shadows get stealth and Force Speed, Knights get Force Leap, VGs get Harpoon, Scoundrels get stealth and, if you're Scrapper which is the largely pure melee spec, you also get Sneak w/ Fight or Flight), this necessitates the inclusion of burst mobility (which could just as easily be referred to as a "gap creator") for those turret classes without turret protections.

 

In short, Commandos are considered bad for PvP because they can't sit there and shoot like Gunslingers and can't run around like Sages. Commandos really just have to stand there and die if a melee wants to take 'em down.

[Dabrixmgp]

So then basically they are at the top of the buff list sitting somewhere in a stack of papers at Bioware?

[Furiel]

The TL;DR version of Kitru's wall of text that he loves so much...

 

Commandos lack the 3 things you need in PvP, survivability, escapability and burst.

 

Commandos can do competitive damage IF they are left alone to just stand there an cast, but no good player is going to allow you to do that so you end up easy meat. I know when I play lowbie PvP I always look for any commandos/mercs out there, and if I find one I always make a point of hunting them all match because I know they are going to be easy kills because they are rather squishy for being in heavy armor, won't be able to escape, and are easy to lockdown/out of their core abilities.

 

And no, we are near or at the bottom. There was/is a long list of complaints, ideas, etc that have been given to BW for how to change commandos and mercs for PvP to make them more viable and BW's completely oblivious response was suggesting that we use LoS more and that they intend to give us an escape ability and that will balance us in their opinion. An idea which was roundly decried by the community as false, and that feedback was subsequently ignored.

 

So I have no hope for Commandos being viable in PvP any time soon outside of CM spec, and in that spec you have to make sure to NEVER use HS on an ally. The second you do that every melee in the WZ leaps to you and kills you because you just flagged yourself as a healer and with no escapability you die instantly. And then you respawn, run out, and they do it again because now they know. I made that mistake once in Huttball and I never survived more than 30 seconds outside the spawn point the rest of the match because as pair of marauders devoted the rest of the match to hunting and killing me at every opportunity and none of my teammates would back me up.

[Azdraik]

Here I thought everyone knew gun was a horrible spec in pvp.

 

Your telling me you don't hear Melvin (Simpsons) pointing and laughing at you when you queue up?

[Kitru]

The TL;DR version of Kitru's wall of text that he loves so much...

 

From the looks of your post, you *also* love the Walls of Text.

[Dabrixmgp]

Your telling me you don't hear Melvin (Simpsons) pointing and laughing at you when you queue up?

 

I have an old Commando on a server I havent touched since they were merged. Decided to just see if they were that bad for myself. I tried to queue and it said "Invalid class please reroll."

[oaceen]

So then basically they are at the top of the buff list sitting somewhere in a stack of papers at Bioware?

 

hopefully scoundrel dps and commandos get a buff soon, but i suspect a lot of the devs fear the state of pvp as it was at launch when they were very OP

 

unfortunately, a lot of the things that made commando OP were bugs with the way the class worked and problems with PVP in general. a lot of people weren't even aware of them.

 

 

so when bioware fixed the bugs, got rid of adrenals in PVP, lowered the surge multiplier, and then nerfed a bunch of classes for good measure, commandos were left at the bottom, and it's mostly stayed that way. we've actually gotten a few more nerfs and only a few fairly negligible buffs

[Furiel]

I tried to queue and it said "Invalid class please reroll."

 

I'm pretty sure I get that same error any time I try to log into an class that doesn't weild a glowbat...

 

From the looks of your post, you *also* love the Walls of Text.

 

Mine was more of a fence than a full on wall, but touche good sir!

Edited January 4, 2013 by Furiel

[ArchangelLBC]

hopefully scoundrel dps and commandos get a buff soon, but i suspect a lot of the devs fear the state of pvp as it was at launch when they were very OP

 

unfortunately, a lot of the things that made commando OP were bugs with the way the class worked and problems with PVP in general. a lot of people weren't even aware of them.

 

 

so when bioware fixed the bugs, got rid of adrenals in PVP, lowered the surge multiplier, and then nerfed a bunch of classes for good measure, commandos were left at the bottom, and it's mostly stayed that way. we've actually gotten a few more nerfs and only a few fairly negligible buffs

 

 

I'd say the only thing that made commandos OP was others not knowing that interrupts are important.

 

And we've gotten several very good buffs, but sadly most of those were more along the lines of fixes (Deadly Cannon, FA suffering from bad pushback if you were breathed on heavily, things like that). Sadly when they nerfed grav round the damage rebalance they did was based on Vortex Stacks not being accounted for properly and when they fixed that we were left twisting in the wind till they grudgingly changed a dubiously useful accuracy talent into an Armor Pen talent for HiB and FA.

 

Overall I'd say we're on the bottom list of buffing priorities because they don't know how the class works at all despite designing it (see the stockstrike change) and because they don't care enough to learn.

[ladwar]

So then basically they are at the top of the buff list sitting somewhere in a stack of papers at Bioware?

 

no they mean its basically on the top of the nerf hammer list. they tend to over nerf something that is fine and if its still playable to nerf it even harder and as they sit they are playable.

 

i like playing mine but i liked it most before 1.2, i hate 1.4 but i still hold hope but i sense the nerf hammer coming again.

[Dabrixmgp]

no they mean its basically on the top of the nerf hammer list. they tend to over nerf something that is fine and if its still playable to nerf it even harder and as they sit they are playable.

 

i like playing mine but i liked it most before 1.2, i hate 1.4 but i still hold hope but i sense the nerf hammer coming again.

 

They are already the worst class in the game. How can they get nerfed more?

[Jherad]

They are already the worst class in the game. How can they get nerfed more?

 

We were the worst PvP class in the game prior to 1.4, when they reduced the range of our stun, and for gunnery took away a knockback in exchange for a melee range root.