Shadow Tank Alt (looking for PVE advice and having a hard time finding some)

[Marek_Arendis]

Now if people are gonna get on me for not just looking for it in already made threads, I looked for like 3-4 pages and never found anything that was helpful or not out of date.

 

Just wondering if somone could link me a solid PVE tank build, along with a good rotation.

 

Also Im complete tank newb, not that I expect to do much tanking in raids as Im a main healer, but still advice would be appreciated. I do see myself gearing this toon up once he reaches 50.

[jedifather]

noxxic.com/swtor has a decent talent build up for KC shadows...however parsing and most other shadows i know (know quite a few tank shadows,including myself ) all that that the priority should be the following (noxxic has double strike in their rotation):

 

KW

slow time

force breach

telekenetic throw

spinning strike

project

saber strike

what this does is maximize your harnessed shadows uptime, as well as give maximum threat, as well as maximum HPS.

[Kitru]

The spec you're going to want to use is this one. For leveling, you'll get more mileage out of dropping 2 points out of Mental Fortitude and putting them into Applied Force but, at 50, you won't be using Double Strike enough for it to be really useful.

 

I wouldn't really use the priority list given before, mainly because it's misleading. KW is off of the GCD, so it shouldn't even be listed (you should refresh it whenever it drops off anyways, though it doesn't compete with anything else so there's little point in bringing it up in a priority list). TkT should only ever be used when you've got 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows. Using it without that is largely a waste. Also, I would place Project above Slow Time, mainly because it's on a 6 sec CD compared to Slow Time's 7.5 second CD (which means that if you use Slow Time then Project, the two CDs are going to always come up simultaneously, which is bad for HS stack generation). Also, I tend to put Spinning Strike at the top of the priority list simply because it hits so friggin hard and has a chance to generate PA.

 

My priority list looks more like:

Spinning Strike>TkT(w/ 3 HS)>Project>Slow Time>Force Breach>Double Strike (only when you would otherwise waste Force via your regen)>Saber Strike

 

There are some minor special considerations, such as using DS twice in an attempt to get a PA proc if I have a Force Potency stack or will have on my next use of Project (if I don't get it in 2 attempts, I just use it without), but, overall, that priority list will manage you for pretty much every ST situation.

 

For AoE, you shouldn't really need to use Whirling Blow all that often to maintain aggro. Just open up with Slow Time + Force Breach and everything should be staring at you. If there are still enemies not staring at you (such as if the group were really spread out), move around and give love taps (via the normal ST priority) to the offending enemies until they decide that you're more interesting than their current target. Once everyone is looking at you, cycle your ST priority on whoever the DPS happens to be staring at.

 

In more general advice, as a Shadow Tank, it's *highly important* you learn all of the various attack types of the various abilities enemies use when you're tanking. Since Resilience and Deflection are both specific to certain attack types (Resilience to Force/Tech and Deflection to Melee/Ranged), if you're using them for the wrong type of attack (such as Deflection during Soa or Resilience while on Firebrand), you've functionally wasted them (which makes them unique as tank CDs). It's also important to remember when KBs are coming: unlike VGs and Guardians, you don't have a leap and, if you get knocked back while channeling TkT, you just wasted 3 HS stacks for little to no benefit (and TkT w/ 3 HS stacks is your biggest source of self healing as well as the attack with the best Threat per Force, so those wasted HS stacks are a big deal, especially early on in a fight).

[Marek_Arendis]

Wow Kitru thanks, thats some awesome insight.

 

Seems like an easy enough rotation to master actually. At this point Im only lvl 14 or something so I dont have a lot of these abilities, but I think I understand, Im sure once I hit fifty, Ill have all this down.

 

I just thought I should ask now, cause I leveled my Sage healer without really learning how to play it, and it took me a lot of time and raid wipes to re-learn how to play it. Id rather just get it straight right off the bat.

 

 

so thanks a ton

[Kitru]

Id rather just get it straight right off the bat.

 

Well, for the first 30 levels, your entire life is going to be Saber Strike, Double Strike, and Force Breach since you don't have access to Slow Time or Harnessed Shadows. Once you get Particle Acceleration, you start using Project when PA is up. When you've finally gotten Harnessed Shadows (and, soon after, Slow Time) your priority starts looking more like it does at level 50. Leveling a Shadow til your mid-30s where it actually starts actually playing like a fully developed class is boring as hell, but it's effective enough. You just have to wade through half of your class storyline before you get there.

[eventidephoenix]

I'm raising a shadow tank now as well.. The level in which your rotation starts looking like end game is about level 40 good luck!

[KeyboardNinja]

Worth noting that the math says Project should come after Slow Time in the priority queue. For optimal TkT timing, Slow Time should be used exactly on cooldown, while Project should be delayed by 1.5 seconds (exactly one GCD) to avoid force starvation.

[SteveGarbage]

Well, for the first 30 levels, your entire life is going to be Saber Strike, Double Strike, and Force Breach since you don't have access to Slow Time or Harnessed Shadows. Once you get Particle Acceleration, you start using Project when PA is up. When you've finally gotten Harnessed Shadows (and, soon after, Slow Time) your priority starts looking more like it does at level 50. Leveling a Shadow til your mid-30s where it actually starts actually playing like a fully developed class is boring as hell, but it's effective enough. You just have to wade through half of your class storyline before you get there.

 

Yup tell me about it. I'm working my way through Nar Shadaa now and it's Breach then smack them around with Double Strike until I proc a PA then Project. Not very scintillating going from Sentinel to Shadow, but I'm looking forward to later levels when I actually have some more skills to manage in tougher fights.

[eventidephoenix]

Worth noting that the math says Project should come after Slow Time in the priority queue. For optimal TkT timing, Slow Time should be used exactly on cooldown, while Project should be delayed by 1.5 seconds (exactly one GCD) to avoid force starvation.

 

interesting proposition, would like to hear more opinions on this

 

But then again I do know some Shadow Tanks who enjoy staying at the lower end of their force. Maybe this won't apply?

[WooduckAUS]

For me force starvation was never an issue. It only was when i spammed too many DS trying to proc your rocks!! Once you forget about that, it was easy.

 

For focus on single target, holding smaller adds, (using your rocks - slow time - FB - rocks = 3 stacks -TKT) was perfectly fine, throwing in the occasional DS if you have the spare force and your 2nd rock was not off cooldown. Never had to worry about adds peeling off with that one.

 

Spamming 2 slow times in the 1 rotation, looks like lower single target threat to me.

 

Just my opinion though.

[Kitru]

Spamming 2 slow times in the 1 rotation, looks like lower single target threat to me.

 

If you wanna get purely technical, Slow Time generates about as much as threat as Project (roughly 90% as much factoring in Upheaval, barring PA procs), thanks to the high threat modifier, for 55-60% of the net cost (depending on DBSD procs). As such, it generates roughly the same amount of threat without affecting your resource maintenance as much. Net Threat per Force is, over the course of an entire fight, more important than the specific Threat per Second of a specific ability because a lot of Shadow Tank threat (and survivability thanks to HS stack generation) is limited by your ability to regenerate your Force.

 

If you end up using Project on CD, you end up having to use Saber Strikes for otherwise empty CDs while your Force regenerates, which, functionally, increases the CD on Project.

[WooduckAUS]

If you end up using Project on CD, you end up having to use Saber Strikes for otherwise empty CDs while your Force regenerates, which, functionally, increases the CD on Project.

 

Interesting. Though i never used saber strike while tanking, took it off my bar completely, never needed it.

 

Does the extra single target damage count into this?

[Kitru]

Interesting. Though i never used saber strike while tanking, took it off my bar completely, never needed it.

 

You should have Saber Strike on your bar. Otherwise, no matter what you do, you're gonna have empty GCDs where you're doing nothing and waiting for your Force to come back (since there aren't any attacks with a Force/sec cost of less than the 10.2-12.2 Force/sec that you regenerate as a Shadow tank other than TkT, which should only be used once every 12-15 seconds thanks to HS stack generation). It's DS that is often elected to be removed from your bar completely. Saber Strike should be on there simply because it's better than nothing when you don't have the Force to use anything else.

[WooduckAUS]

Kk, nps.

 

I don't tank on my shadow anymore (so maybe i shouldn't post in shadow/tank forums....just bored at work), i don't recall having to wait for anything or needing saber strike BUT i am not doubting your math Kitru. I learnt not to a long time ago.....

 

So what you're saying is after 1 full rotation ending in TKT, with 1 double strike if i recall correctly before the 2nd rock, this ends in force starvation. I must have swapped a few rocks for ST and vice versa, to manage force. Maybe there was a split second or 2 that i was waiting for a little force but i don't remember any problems.

 

Either way, splitting hairs here. I still think we are talking on the same page about the nuts and bolts of the rotation. Never said i was perfect, just a simplified version for fairly solid tanking rotation for the OP. I just remember favoring 2 rocks in my rotation if possible and it worked pretty well for me. I never tanked TFB HM, he was retired by then but never had any problems tanking, at the time, all the current HM ops etc.

[KeyboardNinja]

interesting proposition, would like to hear more opinions on this

 

But then again I do know some Shadow Tanks who enjoy staying at the lower end of their force. Maybe this won't apply?

 

Here's the math: http://imgur.com/5IivI "x" is the average delay between Project usage, "y" is the average delay between Slow Time usage, and "z" is the average delay between Double Strike usage. As you can see, ST and Proj are both used almost exactly every 7.5 seconds, which is a 1.5 second delay following the Project cooldown. Double Strike is used…never. :-(

 

Note that this rotation is *exactly* Force Neutral. So, it's not a matter of "liking to stay in the low FP region". If you go with a different rotation, you will either achieve your TkT less frequently (and thus see a dramatically lower self-heal HPS) or you will run out of force entirely.

Edited November 29, 2012 by KeyboardNinja