Lightsaber Form Questions

[Temeluchus]

Yeah, so we kind of agree after all.

 

 

 

True. As far as I know Niman and Jar'Kai are closely related anyways. I'm not quite sure about the definition of Jar'Kai, though. I think it has become simply a term for dual wielding. So whenever you use Niman (or any other form) with two blades it is also Jar'Kai.

 

 

 

Niman and Jar'kai are closely related, Niman is an official Lightsaber Form but both Niman and Jar'kai come from pre-lightsaber fighting techniques that heavily used 2 blades. In the beginings of Niman, it was focused on dual blades, but over time it appeared to appeal more to those that use single blades for some reason.

 

The only people I can reliably recall using 2 blades or double bladed weapons using Niman are Exar Kun and the one Master Jedi from KOTOR II(what was his name? Dang it, that's going to bug me now). The rest of the dual wielding characters we have seen in canon all seem to use Ataru,Juyo or as their preferred Form or situationally used Jar'kai.

 

You're right, Jar'kai is kind of a blanket term for dual blade/saber fighting but it is a bit of a misnomer as Ataru has a dual blade variant.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Aurbere]

Niman and Jar'kai are closely related, Niman is an official Lightsaber Form but both Niman and Jar'kai come from pre-lightsaber fighting techniques that heavily used 2 blades. In the beginings of Niman, it was focused on dual blades, but over time it appeared to appeal more to those that use single blades for some reason.

 

The only people I can reliably recall using 2 blades or double bladed weapons using Niman are Exar Kun and the one Master Jedi from KOTOR II(what was his name? Dang it, that's going to bug me now). The rest of the dual wielding characters we have seen in canon all seem to use Ataru as their preferred Form or situationally used Jar'kai.

 

You're right, Jar'kai is kind of a blanket term for dual blade/saber fighting but it is a bit of a misnomer as Ataru has a dual blade variant.

 

His name is Kavar.

[Temeluchus]

His name is Kavar.

 

Thanks!

[Maaruin]

Niman and Jar'kai are closely related, Niman is an official Lightsaber Form but both Niman and Jar'kai come from pre-lightsaber fighting techniques that heavily used 2 blades. In the beginings of Niman, it was focused on dual blades, but over time it appeared to appeal more to those that use single blades for some reason.

 

The only people I can reliably recall using 2 blades or double bladed weapons using Niman are Exar Kun and the one Master Jedi from KOTOR II(what was his name? Dang it, that's going to bug me now). The rest of the dual wielding characters we have seen in canon all seem to use Ataru,Juyo or as their preferred Form or situationally used Jar'kai.

 

You're right, Jar'kai is kind of a blanket term for dual blade/saber fighting but it is a bit of a misnomer as Ataru has a dual blade variant.

 

I think the reason why so many Niman users use only one blade is because it is easier to channel the Force with the second hand free. The Force basically becomes your second blade.

 

Exar Kun later used a one-handed double saber, so I guess he also wanted to keep his second hand free for some reason.

[BrandonSM]

Woa, lots of absolutes here. How do you know for certain that Revan didn't use Niman? And why would Niman be weak on the battle feild?

e.

 

Its a pretty much strictly dueling.

 

I'd say Revan would use Djem So similar to Anakin Skywalker pre-Suit. Either that or Shien since we've seen several posters and concept arts of Revan wielding a saber backwards.

 

Djem So is a very offensive move and is pretty much fueled by emotions. Hence why Anakin Skywalker(The non-stop emotions machine) was so amazing at the form.

[GarfieldJL]

In my opinion Revan is likely to have used Juyo and shien saber forms. Shien is an offensive stance that directs blaster fire back at people, and juyo is an aggressive stance that can use two sabers.

 

 

As far as the saber forms I would have as a Jedi, it would probably be Shien and Ataru. The two seem to offset each other as far as perks and weaknesses.

[Aurbere]

Thanks!

 

No problem!

[MasterMe]

Its a pretty much strictly dueling.

 

I'd say Revan would use Djem So similar to Anakin Skywalker pre-Suit. Either that or Shien since we've seen several posters and concept arts of Revan wielding a saber backwards.

 

Djem So is a very offensive move and is pretty much fueled by emotions. Hence why Anakin Skywalker(The non-stop emotions machine) was so amazing at the form.

 

I would disagree that Djem So "is pretty much fueled by emotions." Obviously a Sith would do so, but there is no reason a Jedi would use emotions when using Djem So. Some Jedi just don't like the form because of its focus on attack.

[BrandonSM]

I would disagree that Djem So "is pretty much fueled by emotions." Obviously a Sith would do so, but there is no reason a Jedi would use emotions when using Djem So. Some Jedi just don't like the form because of its focus on attack.

 

From accounts of Darth Bane Trilogy and ROTS Novelization of the use of Djem So.

 

Bane used Djem So and as he got angrier or whatever his attacks became more heavier and quicker becoming more threatening.

[MasterMe]

From accounts of Darth Bane Trilogy and ROTS Novelization of the use of Djem So.

 

Bane used Djem So and as he got angrier or whatever his attacks became more heavier and quicker becoming more threatening.

 

Yes but he's a Sith, so obviously his emotions are gonna show in all that he does. I'm saying that there's nothing about Djem So that requires emotion (if your a Jedi).

[BrandonSM]

Yes but he's a Sith, so obviously his emotions are gonna show in all that he does. I'm saying that there's nothing about Djem So that requires emotion (if your a Jedi).

 

I may have worded it wrong.

 

 

Emotions Help when it comes to Djem So hence why Anakin and Bane were so amazing at it.

 

 

How about that?

[Beniboybling]

I'd be a master of all the forms and combine them together to form by own version of Grievous' style I'd also wield three lightsabers telekinetically when I can't be bothered to fight.

 

In truth though, if I had to pick one it would be Makashi, its very elegant and altogether very cool. Seethes importantness and stuff

[MasterMe]

I may have worded it wrong.

 

 

Emotions Help when it comes to Djem So hence why Anakin and Bane were so amazing at it.

 

 

How about that?

 

I guess that works.

[Aurbere]

I'd be a master of all the forms and combine them together to form by own version of Grievous' style I'd also wield three lightsabers telekinetically when I can't be bothered to fight.

 

In truth though, if I had to pick one it would be Makashi, its very elegant and altogether very cool. Seethes importantness and stuff

 

You'd probably have to remove a few of the bones in your wrist to get it to do all of that spinning.

 

Makashi is an excellent form and I would use it in similar fashion as Count Dooku. He's one classy guy.

[Beniboybling]

You'd probably have to remove a few of the bones in your wrist to get it to do all of that spinning.

 

Makashi is an excellent form and I would use it in similar fashion as Count Dooku. He's one classy guy.

 

True! Maybe I'll just stick with the telekinesis and Makashi, I reckon what would be a pretty classy combination.

[mantequ]

1. To all of you Niman haters out there...you are going to love this.

 

"However, it is my unofficial opinion that Revan would generally have used "Form VI - Niman". This form works well for anyone who is intelligent and adaptable, as Revan obviously was. It has no real weaknesses, and even though it is not as aggressive as other forms it enables the user to unleash powerful Force abilities more easily during combat. Revan was skilled in lightsaber combat, but knew true strength came from using all the other Force abilities in conjunction with lightsaber combat. Form VI would allow Revan to spend less time focusing on lightsaber skills, and more time developing other Force powers."

 

―Drew Karpyshyn (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Author)

 

This was the guy that was the Senior Writer for Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic at BioWare. So, technically this guy gave us Revan. This is supported by the next statement.

 

"...though he was skilled in all of them [lightsaber forms] - he was always more of a generalist than a specialist."

 

―Drew Karpyshyn (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Author)

 

So basically, he was skilled in all of them. Being a Jack of all Trades, Revan became a practitioner of Niman. While displaying Ataru and Soresu against the Sith Emperor and Juyo as a Dark Lord of the Sith, I believe that other than Niman, Revan frequently used Shien/Djem So and also Jar'Kai.

 

2. As to what form I would prefer as a Jedi/Sith, I would have to go with Form V: Shien/Djem So. It's the most practical in my opinion and also the form that, as a Jedi, I could pummel the crap out of people and not get *****ed at for leaning towards the Dark Side. As a Sith, it has more defense than Juyo, which means less openings. And it does kick ***.

[Ghisallo]

So the guy who created the Revan character, for video games, and who obviously thinks he is the bees knees, is a solid impartial source?

 

Also you completely miss what he says

it is my unofficial opinion that Revan would generally have used "Form VI - Niman".

Unofficial is a convenient dodge.

...even though it is not as aggressive as other forms it enables the user to unleash powerful Force abilities more easily during combat. Revan was skilled in lightsaber combat, but knew true strength came from using all the other Force abilities in conjunction with lightsaber combat.

 

First "knew" should be "believed". Second even if " knew" was correct, Niman only worked for him because of how powerful he was "force side". Third as we see when we watch people of equal (or close to equal) force ability fight, it comes down to their skill with the light saber because (as an example) Sidious' "unstoppable force" (pun not intended) hit's Yoda's "immovable object" (if not for the size of that tiny platform). Same with Luke and Vader in episode VI, Kenobi and Anakin at the end of Episode III.

 

So yeah...Niman is great when you are fighting non-force users or inferior force senstives, but the minute it becomes and battle of equals the light saber is the equalizer.

[Ghisallo]

True! Maybe I'll just stick with the telekinesis and Makashi, I reckon what would be a pretty classy combination.

 

It would indeed be so simply for dueling. However I think I would be a Soresu guy. Even more Energy efficient than Makashi and then just wait for my enemy to screw up. Worked quite well for Obi-Wan v Anakin.

 

I do think people are missing a point here though. You are NOT locked into using any single form at once. The books and movies make that clear. The forms are no different than RL Martial Arts. I have study Aikido, Isshin-ryu and Krav Maga. My job requires me on occasion to have to really fight with people. I won't just say "I will use Aikido right now because of the circumstances."

 

I engage my opponent and use what ever individual move from which ever system (using that term because technically KM is a fighting system not a martial art) is appropriate in that immediate instance. So I might

 

1. do a I-r hard block (a striking block as opposed to a parry/deflection) if he swings and I am too close. This has a two pronged effect. A. I don't get hit and B. People usually open with their strong hand and now I have hopefully either injured it or caused enough pain to mean they will be hesitant in using it again.

>>>>>>>>

2. followed by going to the guys nose with a palm strike to cause a lot of pain and stun em (KM). You do not have to break a nose for someone to "see stars" if you strike em there

>>>>>>>>

3. get them in an arm bar and take em to the ground (aikido)>then apply a wrist lock to maintain control and achieve pain compliance until the subject can be restrained (basic technique in all of them).

 

No thought to what form I am using just acting using my entire skill set.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Ghisallo