Lightsaber Form Questions

[MasterMe]

With the recent lightsaber forms in mind, I've got two questions:

 

1: What lightsaber form do you guys thing that Revan would have used? I imagine that he would've used Niman, because I imagine him wanting a very adaptable form that would suit whatever plan he had up his sleeve.

 

2: If you were a Jedi/Sith, what lightsaber form would you use? I've always liked Juyo for its heavy focus on offense. What about you guys?

[TalonVII]

Revan would of used Jer'Kai since he loved fighting with 2 sabers which is an ofshoot of Nemian. If not those then Juyo would be my best guess.

[MasterMe]

Revan would of used Jer'Kai since he loved fighting with 2 sabers which is an ofshoot of Nemian. If not those then Juyo would be my best guess.

 

But I didn't think it was canon that he used two lightsabers. Yes we've seen him using two in a cutscene, but we've also seen him using one in a cutscene. Also, we've seen him using one in the novel.

 

Do you guys think that Revan might have carried two lightsabers just so he could switch around when it would be most advantagous to do so?

[ToEasy]

I am not sure about what lightsaber form Reven used, maybe Niman. I would use Djem So primarily and use Ataru to help compensate for Djem So's lack of mobility.

[MyDarkSunshine]

1. If I'm not mistaken, Revan is said to use acrobatic maneuvers during lightsaber duels, which would suggest he used (at least to an extent) Ataru. This would remain consistent, as (assuming I'm not mistaken again) Ataru is said to have been a popular lightsaber form during the time of the Mandalorian Wars - which seems silly, as they were against blaster wielding foes.

 

2. Soresu.

[Aurbere]

Revan did not use Niman. Niman is a form that is weak on the battlefield. The Clone Wars saw the deaths of every Niman master in the Order*. He most likely used Ataru or Makashi.

 

If I were to use a form, it would be Makashi. I would probably use it in the same way Dooku used it.

 

*Masters that used solely Niman, of course.

 

EDIT: He may have used Jar'Kai when ever he dual-wielded, but it seems most likely that he used Makashi, Juyo, or Ataru. I think he may have had his own fighting style. Not sure on that though.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Aurbere

[Maaruin]

1. I'm not sure. I still try to figure out which opening stance he shows in

. Probably they didn't thought about it while making the video, but maybe it is an indication.

 

2. I'm a Consular at heart and would use the Force as my primary weapon on the battlefield. I'm undecided about which form:

 

Makashi - I like this style the most. But I probably wouldn't use it much. It is of most use against lightsaber wielding opponents, and if you are not a Sith hunter, it won't help you against most opponents. But since the would be my primary weapon, why not specialize on Makashi for sparring matches.

 

or

 

Niman - Probably a better choice than Makashi. It is a form which allows you to easily channel Force attacks into your moves. But it takes much more time to master and given how lazy I am I would probably not become very good at it and get killed on Geonosis. And Makashi just has more style.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Maaruin

[MasterMe]

Revan did not use Niman. Niman is a form that is weak on the battlefield. The Clone Wars saw the deaths of every Niman master in the Order*. He most likely used Ataru or Makashi.

 

If I were to use a form, it would be Makashi. I would probably use it in the same way Dooku used it.

 

*Masters that used solely Niman, of course.

 

EDIT: He may have used Jar'Kai when ever he dual-wielded, but it seems most likely that he used Makashi, Juyo, or Ataru. I think he may have had his own fighting style. Not sure on that though.

 

Woa, lots of absolutes here. How do you know for certain that Revan didn't use Niman? And why would Niman be weak on the battle feild?

 

And as for the Clone Wars comment, how do you know that 100% of Niman users died? Even then, was it there use of Niman that was their downfall?

 

I'm not trying to talk you down here at all, I just see a lot of things here that doen't seem legit to me.

[Aurbere]

Woa, lots of absolutes here. How do you know for certain that Revan didn't use Niman? And why would Niman be weak on the battle feild?

 

And as for the Clone Wars comment, how do you know that 100% of Niman users died? Even then, was it there use of Niman that was their downfall?

 

I'm not trying to talk you down here at all, I just see a lot of things here that doen't seem legit to me.

 

While Form VI was not a weak fighting style, it was an inadequate form for the open battlefields of the Clone Wars. Notably, all adherents of the style involved in the Battle of Geonosis perished,

 

-source Wookieepedia

 

I'm not saying that he did not use it at all. I'm saying that he did not use it during the wars. Maybe I wasn't clear. His fighting style is more similar to Makashi or Ataru.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Aurbere

[Maaruin]

While Form VI was not a weak fighting style, it was an inadequate form for the open battlefields of the Clone Wars. Notably, all adherents of the style involved in the Battle of Geonosis perished,

 

-source Wookieepedia

 

I'll post my objections to that in your upcoming Niman thread

[Aurbere]

I'll post my objections to that in your upcoming Niman thread

 

By all means, post them here. I don't think I will be discussing Niman's application in war-time in that thread.

[MasterMe]

While Form VI was not a weak fighting style, it was an inadequate form for the open battlefields of the Clone Wars. Notably, all adherents of the style involved in the Battle of Geonosis perished,

 

-source Wookieepedia

 

I'm not saying that he did not use it at all. I'm saying that he did not use it during the wars. Maybe I wasn't clear. His fighting style is more similar to Makashi or Ataru.

 

Wow, well that's odd. So I guess Niman is purely meant for one-on-one stuff? I realize that that's canon, but you wouldn't think that it was particularly weak on the battlefield, know what I mean?

 

But if you think about it, would Makashi be any better when facing multiple opponents? It's more of a fencing form that seems strictly for dueling. I wouldn't think that it'd be very good for open battle. Would you guys agree or disagree?

 

Back to what Revan used, do think that he could have (instead of focusing on a single form) perhaps semi-mastered several forms? For example he could be a practitioner of Soresu and Ataru (and maybe one other) so he could have a lot of adaptability.

 

- Also: why is it you think that Revan would've used Ataru?

[Aurbere]

Wow, well that's odd. So I guess Niman is purely meant for one-on-one stuff? I realize that that's canon, but you wouldn't think that it was particularly weak on the battlefield, know what I mean?

 

But if you think about it, would Makashi be any better when facing multiple opponents? It's more of a fencing form that seems strictly for dueling. I wouldn't think that it'd be very good for open battle. Would you guys agree or disagree?

 

Back to what Revan used, do think that he could have (instead of focusing on a single form) perhaps semi-mastered several forms? For example he could be a practitioner of Soresu and Ataru (and maybe one other) so he could have a lot of adaptability.

 

- Also: why is it you think that Revan would've used Ataru?

 

I would have thought Niman was good for battlefield combat, but it seems to be more of a peace-keeping form. Hence the name Diplomats Form.

 

Actually, Makashi is not good for multiple opponents, but we have seen Count Dooku display exceptional mastery of Makashi to the point where he could engage multiple opponents simultaneously and still perform well.

 

As to Revan, it is quite possible that he implemented several forms into his battle style. I actually played Revan in KOTOR as if he was an Ataru user so its a theory of mine.

[Maaruin]

By all means, post them here. I don't think I will be discussing Niman's application in war-time in that thread.

 

As you wish.

 

Niman is a form with no specific strengths and no specific weaknesses. It includes elements of all forms. So on the open battlefield, against multiple blaster wielding opponents, it would be better than Makashi, but not as good as Soresu or Shien.

 

Niman can be used as a fighting style for those who aren't that into lightsaber combat anyways, which would of course put you on a disadvantage on the battlefield. But those who train really, really hard with Niman basically become a master of everything. On the battlefield, the Niman masters wouldn't come any short of masters of other lightsaber forms.

 

Finally, Niman encourages the use of the Force during the fight (though that does require some training). Those who are skilled with the Force in battle could use Niman as a backup and the Force as their main weapon.

 

 

I think the reason why so many Niman practicers died in the Clone Wars is the following:

 

Those PT Jedi who picked Niman didn't intend to use it in battle. They weren't fighters, but diplomats and scholars. So they focused on their area of expertise and didn't make practicing lightsaber combat a priority.

 

I would assume that for example the Jedi who practiced Niman and lived in the time of the Great Galactic war would have no problem applying it in battle. But the clone wars didn't last long enough to produce a new generation of Niman users who trained Niman for war-time.

[TalonVII]

The way i understood nimain it was one of those forms that was all around, it was a balanced form, all around. wasn't really weak at anything, but very strong at anything either.

 

I think that is the reason why so many Nimian users died. Again it's not a bad form. It's a more advanced from of Shi-cho that includes more usage of the force. Atleast i think it is.

[Maaruin]

I would have thought Niman was good for battlefield combat, but it seems to be more of a peace-keeping form. Hence the name Diplomats Form.

 

Not exclusively.

You know who also used Niman, I think.

Exar freakin' Kun

 

And he was everything but a diplomat. For diplomats Niman is the easy route for sufficient lightsaber use, but they are not Niman masters.

 

Jensaarai explains it better than I could:

Edited October 20, 2012 by Maaruin

[MasterMe]

The way i understood nimain it was one of those forms that was all around, it was a balanced form, all around. wasn't really weak at anything, but very strong at anything either.

 

I think that is the reason why so many Nimian users died. Again it's not a bad form. It's a more advanced from of Shi-cho that includes more usage of the force. Atleast i think it is.

 

Exactly. I had always thought that it was a level better Shii-Cho in a way.

 

Off topic: I really don't like the way Shii-Cho is portrayed. It is supposed to be the basic/level 1 form, yet men like Kit Fisto use it to the point where it is at the level of other forms. This just doesn't make since to me.

[MasterMe]

Not exclusively.

You know who also used Niman?

Exar freakin' Kun

 

And he was everything but a diplomat. For diplomats Niman is the easy route for sufficient lightsaber use, but they are not Niman masters.

 

Exactly. Even though it is practiced mostly by diplomats who don't devout much time to dueling, Niman can still be used to the level of any other form. At least that's what I've always thought....

[Aurbere]

As you wish.

 

Niman is a form with no specific strengths and no specific weaknesses. It includes elements of all forms. So on the open battlefield, against multiple blaster wielding opponents, it would be better than Makashi, but not as good as Soresu or Shien.

 

Niman can be used as a fighting style for those who aren't that into lightsaber combat anyways, which would of course put you on a disadvantage on the battlefield. But those who train really, really hard with Niman basically become a master of everything. On the battlefield, the Niman masters wouldn't come any short of masters of other lightsaber forms.

 

Finally, Niman encourages the use of the Force during the fight (though that does require some training). Those who are skilled with the Force in battle could use Niman as a backup and the Force as their main weapon.

 

 

I think the reason why so many Niman practicers died in the Clone Wars is the following:

 

Those PT Jedi who picked Niman didn't intend to use it in battle. They weren't fighters, but diplomats and scholars. So they focused on their area of expertise and didn't make practicing lightsaber combat a priority.

 

I would assume that for example the Jedi who practiced Niman and lived in the time of the Great Galactic war would have no problem applying it in battle. But the clone wars didn't last long enough to produce a new generation of Niman users who trained Niman for war-time.

 

The way i understood nimain it was one of those forms that was all around, it was a balanced form, all around. wasn't really weak at anything, but very strong at anything either.

 

I think that is the reason why so many Nimian users died. Again it's not a bad form. It's a more advanced from of Shi-cho that includes more usage of the force. Atleast i think it is.

 

You're both correct. The Jedi of the PT didn't train in Niman in preparation for war, they applied the form in its natural environment: peace talks or peace-keeping missions. They had other forms for war. The form is a balanced form, but it was mainly used for peace-keeping missions and did not excel in war-times.

 

Generally, after the battle of Geonosis, the only Niman users left were either still training at the Temple at the time or were practitioners of other forms.

[Preventer-Blaze]

Not exclusively.

You know who also used Niman, I think.

Exar freakin' Kun

 

And he was everything but a diplomat. For diplomats Niman is the easy route for sufficient lightsaber use, but they are not Niman masters.

 

Jensaarai explains it better than I could:

 

That's why I really like Niman, know? But, I really don't know much about either.

I was one of the guys who wants to make "my official" Jedi with Form VI in swtor.

 

And I look into seeing what you all have to say about this Form.

[Aurbere]

Not exclusively.

You know who also used Niman, I think.

Exar freakin' Kun

 

And he was everything but a diplomat. For diplomats Niman is the easy route for sufficient lightsaber use, but they are not Niman masters.

 

Jensaarai explains it better than I could:

 

Yes, Kun did make use of the Niman form. In fact, he is one of the most skilled practitioners of Niman. And like you and I have both said, it was a form meant for peace-keeping missions, which is what the PT Jedi trained in it for. Kun mastered the Form for the purpose of defeating his enemies. He's probably the only person to use it for that reason. Others adhered to the basic principles.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Aurbere

[Temeluchus]

Not exclusively.

You know who also used Niman, I think.

Exar freakin' Kun

 

And he was everything but a diplomat. For diplomats Niman is the easy route for sufficient lightsaber use, but they are not Niman masters.

 

Jensaarai explains it better than I could:

 

Kun was a Niman Master, but he differed a bit from the others by using his double bladed saber, application of the Form and his use of Jar'kai. If memory serves, he used to wipe the floor with other Padawans and Jedi using standard Niman but would be beaten by his Master;he then used Jar'kai and soundly defeated his Master and practically anyone else that got in his path.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Aurbere]

Kun was a Niman Master, but he differed a bit from the others by using his double bladed saber, application of the Form and his use of Jar'kai. If memory serves, he used to wipe the floor with other Padawans and Jedi using standard Niman but would be beaten by his Master;he then used Jar'kai and soundly defeated his Master and practically anyone else that got in his path.

 

^This. Kun mixed the aggression of Jar'Kai with the balance of Niman to create a devastating form. He mastered this combination and bested everyone in his path. The Jedi order was forced to defeat him using 'unconventional' methods.

 

Darth Maul also followed in Kun's steps, which made him one of the best duelists of his time.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Aurbere

[Maaruin]

Yes, Kun did make use of the Niman form. In fact, he is one of the most skilled practitioners of Niman. And like you and I have both said, it was a form meant for peace-keeping missions, which is what the PT Jedi trained in it for. Kun mastered the Form for the purpose of defeating his enemies. He's probably the only person to use it for that reason. Others adhered to the basic principles.

 

Yeah, so we kind of agree after all.

 

In Niman there is a huge gap between what I would call "casual Niman" and "hardcore Niman" and "casual Niman" sucks in times of war.

 

But I don't think Exar Kun was the only one. According to Wookiepedia Johun Othone also used Niman during the war quite well, but neglected his training after Ruusan. I would assume that many Consulars in the TOR era trained Niman for war too.

 

 

That's why I really like Niman, know? But, I really don't know much about either.

I was one of the guys who wants to make "my official" Jedi with Form VI in swtor.

 

And I look into seeing what you all have to say about this Form.

 

I use it as RP form for my Sage too, mainly because it is very Force friendly.

 

(And ingame the Sage only has two lightsaber moves, so it is quite likely that even "casual Niman" will do.)

 

Kun was a Niman Master, but he differed a bit from the others by using his double bladed saber, application of the Form and his use of Jar'kai. If memory serves, he used to wipe the floor with other Padawans and Jedi using standard Niman but would be beaten by his Master;he then used Jar'kai and soundly defeated his Master and practically anyone else that got in his path.

 

True. As far as I know Niman and Jar'Kai are closely related anyways. I'm not quite sure about the definition of Jar'Kai, though. I think it has become simply a term for dual wielding. So whenever you use Niman (or any other form) with two blades it is also Jar'Kai.

 

^This. Kun mixed the aggression of Jar'Kai with the balance of Niman to create a devastating form. He mastered this combination and bested everyone in his path.

 

I'm not sure if it can be considered a new form. Maybe Exar Kun's form relates to Niman like Djem So relates to Shien.

 

Off topic: I really don't like the way Shii-Cho is portrayed. It is supposed to be the basic/level 1 form, yet men like Kit Fisto use it to the point where it is at the level of other forms. This just doesn't make since to me.

 

Well, Shii-Cho is the best for disarming your opponent and it is good against multiple opponents. I'd say it's a cop form And there are advantages in mastering a "cop form".

[Aurbere]

Yeah, so we kind of agree after all.

 

In Niman there is a huge gap between what I would call "casual Niman" and "hardcore Niman" and "casual Niman" sucks in times of war.

 

But I don't think Exar Kun was the only one. According to Wookiepedia Johun Othone also used Niman during the war quite well, but neglected his training after Ruusan. I would assume that many Consulars in the TOR era trained Niman for war too.

 

 

 

 

I use it as RP form for my Sage too, mainly because it is very Force friendly.

 

(And ingame the Sage only has two lightsaber moves, so it is quite likely that even "casual Niman" will do.)

 

 

 

True. As far as I know Niman and Jar'Kai are closely related anyways. I'm not quite sure about the definition of Jar'Kai, though. I think it has become simply a term for dual wielding. So whenever you use Niman (or any other form) with two blades it is also Jar'Kai.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if it can be considered a new form. Maybe Exar Kun's form relates to Niman like Djem So relates to Shien.

 

 

 

Well, Shii-Cho is the best for disarming your opponent and it is good against multiple opponents. I'd say it's a cop form And there are advantages in mastering a "cop form".

 

I think we do agree. Just had to get a few things clear lol.