Class Balancing (PvP)

[iheartnyc]

I'm still astounded at how poor the class balancing for PvP is. I won't go into too much detail as there are literally dozens of posts addressing this issue, and I want to talk more about the overall balance rather than specific skills/abilities. The thing that rags me the most is that there is a clear consensus on who is strongest for the following roles:

 

1) Best DPS class

2) Best Healing class

3) Best Tank

 

Anyone who has been PvPing can immediately think of which classes to associate with those 3 categories. Now my problem with this is not the simple, "OMG Pyro is OP they need a nerf QQQQQ". It's the simple fact that other classes CANNOT be specced to be competitive in that same category despite having a [DPS/Heal/Tank] skill tree. What do I mean? Look at this example:

 

Nobody will ever say that Sorcs are the best DPS class in PvP, yet Sorcs have TWO DPS trees, yet no manner of customization will result in a viable pure DPS build.

 

Another similar problem is that even for the FOTM classes, there are only a handful of competitive builds. Most good DPS Pyro's will have the same build, as will most good Healing Ops, etc. etc. And this is not the result of people having spent months on simulcraft (which they have). The problem is the fact that the game is UNBALANCED. The PvP in this game leads you into speccing into a very specific build for specific classes.

 

The biggest problem is, you are very limited in your ability to pick a class and build to suit your playstyle. The game forces you to "L2P" according to Bioware rules and adjust for the game's class balancing mechanics. This is not a good thing. L2P should really only be about learning strategies, team tactics and knowing which skills to use and when. When half your skills are worthless in PvP, or when you spend more time worrying about how to optimize your build, that is symptomatic of a broken class balance.

 

And before I end this rant, I leave you with this: take any other PvP game that has been succesful. Whether it be an RTS or FPS or other PvP-oriented MMO or a DOTA-type game. A professional player in those games can take any build and absolutely smash/destroy the opposition. In SWTOR, take a "solid" Marauder player in a top Rated team and put him in control of a Sorcerer. What do you think will happen? I will tell you that guy will respec to Heals and pray that his rated team won't kick him out. That's balancing for you.

[Styxx]

PvP will never be balanced, because you have different classes that play differently. But, ultimately, PvP is all about killing your opposition in the fastest possible way, without dying in the process.

 

Therefore, PvP classes are ALWAYS the best burst + survivability (either by skills, avoidance or armor). There is, sadly, just ONE way to skin the cat = big fast crits and good def. OR glass-cannons, if you know how to play `em.

 

There are games that try to make all classes equal, but they`ll never be able to, because there is ONLY ONE way to do this right.. or only one class type that is the "best" suited for PVP. Anything else is "more or less" suitable for PvP.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Styxx

[iheartnyc]

PvP will never be balanced, because you have different classes that play differently. But, ultimately, PvP is all about killing your opposition in the fastest possible way, without dying in the process.

 

Therefore, PvP classes are ALWAYS the best burst + survivability (either by skills, avoidance or armor). There is, sadly, just ONE way to skin the cat = big fast crits and good def. OR glass-cannons, if you know how to play `em.

 

There are games that try to make all classes equal, but they`ll never be able to, because there is ONLY ONE way to do this right.. or only one class type that is the "best" suited for PVP. Anything else is "more or less" suitable for PvP.

 

I would agree with you regarding burst in a 1v1 situation. But in a 2v1? 3v1? 4v2? In some cases, burst is not the best because once your burst is done then you're effectively not doing any damage (unless you also happen to have one of the best sustained damage as well, which would of course be OP hint hint). Does SWTOR even have a glass cannon class?

 

Based on my experience with other PvP games, having burst can actually be detrimental in a group fight, and is really only good against solo or 2 players. Once the bursting is done, if the "bursted upon" target's teammate gets off a heal, then you are pretty much screwed with all your cooldowns blown and nothing to do except try to survive. Combining a true burst class with a heavy sustained damage class makes this far less of a problem. The problem with SWTOR is that the best burst classes also happen to have amazing sustained damage as well, which negates the need for pure sustained DPS classes.

[ellrochell]

iv seen every class do highest damage/protection/healing, stop QQing about pyro when sorcs can just do as much dps as them. They can get a lot more aoe damage than pyro.

[iheartnyc]

iv seen every class do highest damage/protection/healing, stop QQing about pyro when sorcs can just do as much dps as them. They can get a lot more aoe damage than pyro.

 

The fact that you think that "highest damage/protection/healing" stats are important in a PvP match makes me question your understanding of competitive PvP.

[ellrochell]

yet your qq'ing about pyro but pyro is one of the worst specs for objectives.

[Styxx]

This is not a good thing. L2P should really only be about learning strategies, team tactics and knowing which skills to use and when. When half your skills are worthless in PvP, or when you spend more time worrying about how to optimize your build, that is symptomatic of a broken class balance.

 

Half are good for PVP. L2P which class has the most skills good for PVP . 2 players might reach the same result with 2 different classes as well. Even if you`ll find some universe in which one game has all classes identical... the best player will win.

 

The problem on the Forums is that everybody is "the best player". Some are just thinking too high of themselves.

[NRN_Hawk]

I liked pre 1.2 PVP more than now, I get the feeling it gets worse with every try to balance classes because instead of for example adding some elemental resistance for tanks they rather nerf other classes etc.

 

If you want real Star Wars pvp go play Jedi Academy, that's only based on skill, it's no MMO tho.

 

But yeah, there will always be some "best build" for PVP as well as for PVE.