Beniboybling Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Savage taking Grievous' kill was symbolic - Grievous was the Old Monster - Savage is the New One (and it also shows Lucas himself is on my side of the Argument and went out of his way to prove my point about Savage being able to beat who Grievous can beat ) All right guys, which one of you is George Lucas. I think in that Obi Wan Fight, Savage was overconfident due to them outnumbering Kenobi and took his eye off the ball when they had Obi Wan in a Vulnerable position - (again where his lack of experience shows).....and a factor I conceded could be to Grievous' advantage..... Don't forget in the duel between Obi-Wan and Grievous, Grievous was overconfident too. He took the jedi on by himself (a rare thing ) calling off his droids. And along with the spinny lightsaber there was that whole 'I will be your doom' trash talk. I think these battles are directly comparable. What about Ventress? - Savage did ok against her, definitely held his own (perhaps even edged it on points) Ventress Outmatched Grievous who needed the droid backup - And Ventress's technique is considered somewhat unrefined also (seems you don't need perfect technique to outduel Grievous - perhaps Not letting him get to you psychologically and a relentless determination can be enough) I think Savage had the upper hand in his fight between Ventress, but only because of his fighting style. He used aggressive and fierce attacks, in an enclosed space. Ventress could not outmanoeuvre him and was not strong enough to withstand his attacks and so was battered down. In the case of Grievous this would not be as effective, Grievous's strength almost matches that of Savage's so he would be able to withstand his attack style. And in the fight with Ventress, he was overconfident (as always) but also not defeated. She pushed him to the floor but Grievous still had 3 arms and three lightsabers (as well as his feet) to defend himself. An example would be when Fisto and his old padawan attack Grievous and take out his legs the jedi pursue him as he attempts to scuttle away and still he defends himself. Ventress wouldn't have killed him here and the fight would have continued. If anything the latest episode proves Grievous is the stronger, yes he killed Gallia by himself but this was originally Grievous' kill anyway and he's owned her in TCW before. And even combined with Maul he could not defeat Kenobi, Grievous has fared better with Kenobi by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellblade Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) All right guys, which one of you is George Lucas. Don't forget in the duel between Obi-Wan and Grievous, Grievous was overconfident too. He took the jedi on by himself (a rare thing ) calling off his droids. And along with the spinny lightsaber there was that whole 'I will be your doom' trash talk. I think these battles are directly comparable. I think Savage had the upper hand in his fight between Ventress, but only because of his fighting style. He used aggressive and fierce attacks, in an enclosed space. Ventress could not outmanoeuvre him and was not strong enough to withstand his attacks and so was battered down. In the case of Grievous this would not be as effective, Grievous's strength almost matches that of Savage's so he would be able to withstand his attack style. And in the fight with Ventress, he was overconfident (as always) but also not defeated. She pushed him to the floor but Grievous still had 3 arms and three lightsabers (as well as his feet) to defend himself. An example would be when Fisto and his old padawan attack Grievous and take out his legs the jedi pursue him as he attempts to scuttle away and still he defends himself. Ventress wouldn't have killed him here and the fight would have continued. If anything the latest episode proves Grievous is the stronger, yes he killed Gallia by himself but this was originally Grievous' kill anyway and he's owned her in TCW before. And even combined with Maul he could not defeat Kenobi, Grievous has fared better with Kenobi by himself. And Savage fared better against Ventress.........who you yourself admitted wasn't as strong as Opress and it wasn't like she was using her usual agile fighting style to outmanuever Grievous - she mainly just stood her ground and fought him toe to toe and dominated him and knocked him to the ground and it wasn't just a 'push' it was a Lightsaber strike - that breached his defenses. Whereas she could not do that against Savage which could indicate that Savage is harder to fight blow for blow than Grievous I look at Grievous vs Kenobi _ which in all honesty, I don't see why you are so impressed by his performance..... - Kenobi Chops 2 of his hands off pretty quickly - and Force Pushes him off the ledge - (which disarms him of the Other 2 Lightsabers and that is pretty much the end of the lightsaber duel) Grievous (as usual.....it gets boring after a while)....runs away to his uniwheel vehicle and the majority of the 'Fight' is a Chase where upon Obi Wan unluckily loses his Light Saber Due to the Bumpy Ride (and not due to anything Grievous has done) - and then he has to Fight Grievous with a Magnaguard Shock Stick (if he still had his Saber - Grievous would have been killed Quickly) - Grievous disarms him and he has to fight hand to hand....Which Grievous uses his Strength to get the upper hand (Which hand to hand Savage would do against Kenobi as well as maybe throw in the Force)..... then Obi Wan eventually kills Grievous with the blaster This Also illustrates what I said about the 'any given day' scenario and moving the plot forward Seeing as Savage Opress and Maul did beat Obi Wan in the episode before and they also beat Obi Wan and Ventress Combined....Also Savage Opress had held off both Obi Wan and Anakin Combined by himself...... Again I am looking at Savage Opress' tools and potential vs Grievous Sure Savage is inexperienced and that may cost him against Grievous - as he may fall for a dirty trick..... but the Force gives him far more significant ways to raise his game than Grievous has - Grievous used to have the Splitting into 4 arms thing as his Game Changer - but now he uses it as Standard as it seems he cant afford not to anymore......and now he has to run away/use droid army, mostly because he doesn't have anything else...... I personally would have made Grievous differently......(and stuck a lot closer to the 2d version) Lol - It just looks like we are not going to agree on this (and we tend to be reusing a lot of the same points) - Seeing as this is your thread - just declare Grievous the Winner and decide upon his next matchup.....(perhaps have Grievous vs Ventress) Unless I admit that I am actually George Lucas and in G-Canon Savage Opress would win... Edited October 1, 2012 by fellblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) And Savage fared better against Ventress.........who you yourself admitted wasn't as strong as Opress and it wasn't like she was using her usual agile fighting style to outmanuever Grievous - she mainly just stood her ground and fought him toe to toe and dominated him and knocked him to the ground and it wasn't just a 'push' it was a Lightsaber strike - that breached his defenses. Whereas she could not do that against Savage which could indicate that Savage is harder to fight blow for blow than Grievous I look at Grievous vs Kenobi _ which in all honesty, I don't see why you are so impressed by his performance..... - Kenobi Chops 2 of his hands off pretty quickly - and Force Pushes him off the ledge - (which disarms him of the Other 2 Lightsabers and that is pretty much the end of the lightsaber duel) Grievous (as usual.....it gets boring after a while)....runs away to his uniwheel vehicle and the majority of the 'Fight' is a Chase where upon Obi Wan unluckily loses his Light Saber Due to the Bumpy Ride (and not due to anything Grievous has done) - and then he has to Fight Grievous with a Magnaguard Shock Stick (if he still had his Saber - Grievous would have been killed Quickly) - Grievous disarms him and he has to fight hand to hand....Which Grievous uses his Strength to get the upper hand (Which hand to hand Savage would do against Kenobi as well as maybe throw in the Force)..... then Obi Wan eventually kills Grievous with the blaster This Also illustrates what I said about the 'any given day' scenario and moving the plot forward Seeing as Savage Opress and Maul did beat Obi Wan in the episode before and they also beat Obi Wan and Ventress Combined....Also Savage Opress had held off both Obi Wan and Anakin Combined by himself...... Again I am looking at Savage Opress' tools and potential vs Grievous Sure Savage is inexperienced and that may cost him against Grievous - as he may fall for a dirty trick..... but the Force gives him far more significant ways to raise his game than Grievous has - Grievous used to have the Splitting into 4 arms thing as his Game Changer - but now he uses it as Standard as it seems he cant afford not to anymore......and now he has to run away/use droid army, mostly because he doesn't have anything else...... I personally would have made Grievous differently......(and stuck a lot closer to the 2d version) Lol - It just looks like we are not going to agree on this (and we tend to be reusing a lot of the same points) - Seeing as this is your thread - just declare Grievous the Winner and decide upon his next matchup.....(perhaps have Grievous vs Ventress) Unless I admit that I am actually George Lucas and in G-Canon Savage Opress would win... You raise interesting points, but I would like to counter them with an equally interesting one. As I have watched TCW I have seen how Grievous fights during certain circumstances. He fights differently whether he has a droid army to fall back on or not. If he has his droid army with him then he doesn't feel a pressing need to go all-out. However, when he is solo he has a much different approach. We saw it in that episode when Grievous fought Obi-Wan and Adi Galia. He didn't have his droid army with him at the time and, if memory serves, defeated them. We have seen Grievous fight differently when he is backed into a corner. So if it is just Savage and Grievous (no droid army) we can see Grievous actually fight for real. Anyway. We've debated this thread enough and, unlike most people, you raised your points respectfully and made the debate interesting. Kudos to you. Edited October 1, 2012 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 You raise interesting points, but I would like to counter them with an equally interesting one. As I have watched TCW I have seen how Grievous fights during certain circumstances. He fights differently whether he has a droid army to fall back on or not. If he has his droid army with him then he doesn't feel a pressing need to go all-out. However, when he is solo he has a much different approach. We saw it in that episode when Grievous fought Obi-Wan and Adi Galia. He didn't have his droid army with him at the time and, if memory serves, defeated them. We have seen Grievous fight differently when he is backed into a corner. So if it is just Savage and Grievous (no droid army) we can see Grievous actually fight for real. Anyway. We've debated this thread enough and, unlike most people, you raised your points respectfully and made the debate interesting. Kudos to you. Indeed, both of these characters are very unpredictable. I think I'm going to declare this a draw, I'm not wholly convinced Grievous would win, but my bets or on him. We can only hope that Grievous and Savage get a duel this season before Sidious has a crack at them (and we know that won't end well ) Great debate guys, next I'm planning on Darth Traya vs Darth Plageuis, two of the wisest sith masters - hopefully a interesting fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellblade Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Indeed, both of these characters are very unpredictable. I think I'm going to declare this a draw, I'm not wholly convinced Grievous would win, but my bets or on him. We can only hope that Grievous and Savage get a duel this season before Sidious has a crack at them (and we know that won't end well ) Great debate guys, next I'm planning on Darth Traya vs Darth Plageuis, two of the wisest sith masters - hopefully a interesting fight. I agree either way it is a close fight.... I have enjoyed this debate and I would like to say that you and Aubere have also raised some interesting points and made me think about things too (so Kudos to you both too)..... I am glad that there are posters like you guys that can debate things intelligently but not take things too seriously and personally (and put up with my sense of humour) After all, when said and done - it is all about opinions of a fictional Universe and should never be anything for anyone to ever get bent out of shape about.... Your next fight looks very interesting - I am immediately inclined to say Plagueis even though I don't really know That much about him (but Banite Sith - Rule of Two - Master of Palpatine) All are pointing me in that direction... However - I really did like Darth Traya (Kreia) I would be interested to see what people with more knowledge (than myself) about these guys would have to say about this- So Roll on with the next Fight My Jedi Friend...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 So Roll on with the next Fight My Jedi Friend...... I am no Jedi! I am a Sith Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellblade Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I am no Jedi! I am a Sith Lord! Ok Fine..... Then Roll on with the Fight - My Young Apprentice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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