Round 3: Grievous vs Savage Oppress

[fellblade]

There were a lot of gungans!

 

But They are still GUNGANS!!!........

 

If it were Jawa - I would have let it Slide......

If it was Ewoks - I would have let it Slide......

If it was Admiral Ackbar - I would have let it Slide......

If it was Watto - I would let it Slide......

If it was Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru - I would have let it Slide......

Hell, If it was Greedo - I would have let it Slide........

 

But NOT Gungans!!!!.......

[fellblade]

All true, but I believe Grievous has better dueling skills than Savage. While Savage has the Force. It really comes down to who has more battle experience and who can get momentum on their side. Both of them like to get the advantage early. It really depends on who can bring everything they have down to bear on their opponent.

 

Yes Fights can be an 'On any Given day' situation and Grievous' experience (and Savage's lack of it) could be a Factor

But it is the Superior Duelling Thing - You have a right to your Opinion of course....

If you said Dooku has Superior Duelling Skills to Savage Opress (or Grievous) - then There is Clear Evidence of that as he has been shown fighting them-

Seeing as Savage Opress and Grievous have Never fought - and the common enemy - Savage did better against

I just wonder why you are so sure Grievous is the better Duellist? (perhaps it can be argued he may better technically - but that does not mean that he is Neccesarily Effectively better)

 

LOL - however I could probaly be belabouring the point a bit too much - And The two of them have not Actually Fought so It Really is still mainly opinion ....... So Just tell me to Shut Up if I am annoying you

 

.......(It is more of a case - that I haven't seen everything - so you may be able to point me to stuff that I don't know about that may make me re-evaluate things)

[Beniboybling]

But They are still GUNGANS!!!........

If it was Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru - I would have let it Slide......

But NOT Gungans!!!!.......

Those guys do kick butt

 

But concerning the Gungans (who despite being very annoying are pretty decent fighters - apart from Jar Jar of course) not only had a huge advantage in numbers, but also technology, there weapons specialized in combating droids, if i had been a group of clones with blasters, he would have tore them apart. Whats more Grievous was actually win against multiple waves of Gungans, it was only until he got surprised by that General as he was dying that he lost. Savage would have a better time against the Gungans because he was practically impervious to all their weapons.

 

As for Grevious's major kills, in the comics he dispatches jedi masters Soon Bayts and Adi Gallia (a jedi council member, although her fate may be retconned) with relative ease. And I doubt Savages punches and kicks would have much effect (Obi-Wan learned that the hard way...) his body is very strong.

 

Grevious also has the advantage of light-saber technique - is pure dueling abilities were actually quite strong, he knew all the forms. Much stronger than Savage who I don't think knows any forms at all, and is pretty sloppy with a lightsaber, he wouldn't be able to hold of one of Grevious' trademark twirly-spinning-wheel-of-doom moves.

 

EDIT: Feel free to blabber on some more, thats what this thread is for after all!

Edited September 26, 2012 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Yes Fights can be an 'On any Given day' situation and Grievous' experience (and Savage's lack of it) could be a Factor

But it is the Superior Duelling Thing - You have a right to your Opinion of course....

If you said Dooku has Superior Duelling Skills to Savage Opress (or Grievous) - then There is Clear Evidence of that as he has been shown fighting them-

Seeing as Savage Opress and Grievous have Never fought - and the common enemy - Savage did better against

I just wonder why you are so sure Grievous is the better Duellist? (perhaps it can be argued he may better technically - but that does not mean that he is Neccesarily Effectively better)

 

LOL - however I could probaly be belabouring the point a bit too much - And The two of them have not Actually Fought so It Really is still mainly opinion ....... So Just tell me to Shut Up if I am annoying you

 

.......(It is more of a case - that I haven't seen everything - so you may be able to point me to stuff that I don't know about that may make me re-evaluate things)

 

You're not annoying me. I enjoy a good debate. However a debate that takes forever with neither side giving in annoys me. Luckily we haven't done that yet.

 

Both of these combatants are very skilled duelists. They have both fought and killed Jedi. But Grievous has a better rep as a Jedi killer. He also has more war and combat experience than Savage. He has fought in multiple wars. Savage hasn't really fought in the war. Savage's only real advantage is the Force and we've seen Grievous tear certain Jedi Masters apart.

 

Anyway. We both have an opinion and we have both represented our opinion respectfully. Who knows? We may see a Grievous vs. Savage battle on TCW. But Grievous has plot armor so it comes down to Filoni and what he thinks is going to happen.

[fellblade]

Those guys do kick butt

 

But concerning the Gungans (who despite being very annoying are pretty decent fighters - apart from Jar Jar of course) not only had a huge advantage in numbers, but also technology, there weapons specialized in combating droids, if i had been a group of clones with blasters, he would have tore them apart. Whats more Grievous was actually win against multiple waves of Gungans, it was only until he got surprised by that General as he was dying that he lost. Savage would have a better time against the Gungans because he was practically impervious to all their weapons.

 

As for Grevious's major kills, in the comics he dispatches jedi masters Soon Bayts and Adi Gallia (a jedi council member, although her fate may be retconned) with relative ease. And I doubt Savages punches and kicks would have much effect (Obi-Wan learned that the hard way...) his body is very strong.

 

Grevious also has the advantage of light-saber technique - is pure dueling abilities were actually quite strong, he knew all the forms. Much stronger than Savage who I don't think knows any forms at all, and is pretty sloppy with a lightsaber, he wouldn't be able to hold of one of Grevious' trademark twirly-spinning-wheel-of-doom moves.

 

EDIT: Feel free to blabber on some more, thats what this thread is for after all!

 

Hey, Aunt Beru is Lethal with a Thermal Detonator!!!!!......(besides she would have disabled Grievous' circuitry with the Blue Milk)

 

Lol - No Offense - but is there any somewhat canonical evidence with Grievous's Technique and Savage's

No body has been Able to give me any Solid evidence to why Grievous is the more effective Duellist than Opress - Just that they say he is.......

 

Granted Savage is No Maul Technically , but is nowhere near as Sloppy as some people try to make out - Even his Nightbrother training alone would have given him a very soild foundation........ Savage HAS to have been trained in some kind of Form to even use a Lightsaber properly - I would suggest at least Some Niman training (seeing as he can use a Saber Staff - which in itself is seen as a fairly rare and more advanced technique) its just that His Specific Form(s) hasven't really been elaborated upon.....He Seems to quite Heavily Power based, uses the Force a Lot and is Physically bigger and Less Mobile than Maul (I would possibly Suggest - Djem So (Seeing as like Bane, it would suit his Physical strength and Body Type) and Niman (Saberstaff and lots of Force Usage) also think he would be too inexperienced to learn Juyo)

 

And Speaking of Niman - Again Greivous simply cannot master all the Forms (or Perhaps truly Even Any Form) without any Force Ability (Niman for a start is a Form that Heavily uses the Flow of the Force Through your Body and Interdisperses Force attacks with your Physical Attacks - Juyo where you Channel your Emotions to Enhance your Force Power) - Again All he can do is Replicate the Physical Aspects and Will therefore be much less than what a True master would be - he can compensate for some physical enhancements with Robotics - but the Telekinetics, Precognition, At One with the Force etc (Guiding your moves) ... He will never Have that....

Hell, I defy you to tell me What Particular Lightsaber form that Grievous is using at any given time during a fight...

 

Obi Wan and Savage Opress are two Different Kettles of Fish entirely when it Comes to Physical Size and Strength - Savage Opress has been Physically Enhanced by Nightsister Magic to A SuperHuman Level - Even if Grievous doesn't Break - The Blows will have a Stun/Knockback/Knockdown Effect perhaps enough to create an opening for a Saber strike

 

Interestingly Enough - have you ever seen Anyone Actually Killed By the Twirly Lightsaber of Doom? (even the Scrubs?) it is more for Showmanship and Intimidation as are many of Grievous' moves (and if not wanting to defend against Could probably be countered by one of Savage's Powerful force Pushes) - It is for the Psychological aspect to throw people off their game (Dooku encouraged this heavily in him) - If hedoesn't throw you off your Game it seems that there are (perhaps even Glaring) weaknesses and Vulnerabilities that you will be able to find in Grievous' technique (the Irony is - that when he uses his forms too unorthodoxly - this will actually prevent him using some of the actual teachings of the forms because you are doing things that the form wasn't designed to do - they were made for organics).....Again his Unorhodox Style is much more effective early on - but become more and more familiar to you as you Encounter Grievous - the Fact that you recognise that he Consistenly does this (and Have even named it) proves that he becomes more predictable as the time goes on - and Unprdictability is a much Bigger Factor in Grievious Effectiveness more than virtually any other Duellist especially for the fact that he cannot use the force)

Obi Wan was able to chop off two of his hands pretty Quickly when they fought in ROTS............

[Beniboybling]

Lol - No Offense - but is there any somewhat canonical evidence with Grievous's Technique and Savage's

No body has been Able to give me any Solid evidence to why Grievous is the more effective Duellist than Opress - Just that they say he is.......

 

Canon here - Dooku taught Grievous all the lightsaber forms and used lighting-fast flurries to overwhelm enemies, but frustrated Dooku because of his lack of finesse. He combines all the lightsaber forms together to create his own orthodox form. There's no info about Savage's lightsaber technique so we can only guess at his technique, we can certainly say he lacked finesse, a put a lot of brute strength into his attacks. Not sure how Grievous would square up against that seeing as Jedi don't normally fight in that way. Just because Grievous is more knowledgeable in lightsaber forms (although he does not have the force) and experience with countless Jedi makes him a more effective duelist (in Savage's current inexperienced and unrefined state)

And Speaking of Niman - Again Greivous simply cannot master all the Forms (or Perhaps truly Even Any Form) without any Force Ability (Niman for a start is a Form that Heavily uses the Flow of the Force Through your Body and Interdisperses Force attacks with your Physical Attacks - Juyo where you Channel your Emotions to Enhance your Force Power) - Again All he can do is Replicate the Physical Aspects and Will therefore be much less than what a True master would be - he can compensate for some physical enhancements with Robotics - but the Telekinetics, Precognition, At One with the Force etc (Guiding your moves) ... He will never Have that....

This is very true, but not that important in this fight considering Savage's inexperience. Savage has not mastered all or any of the forms, I doubt he has any skill in precognition or being at one with the force etc.

Interestingly Enough - have you ever seen Anyone Actually Killed By the Twirly Lightsaber of Doom? (even the Scrubs?)

No.... But! Grievous doesn't just use his lightsaber flurrying for show, he uses that merrigoround move, leaping panther, pouncing monkey....

If hedoesn't throw you off your Game it seems that there are (perhaps even Glaring) weaknesses and Vulnerabilities that you will be able to find in Grievous' technique

Thats the thing though, I would expect Savage to be intimidated/confused by this display and he wouldn't have the skill to find weaknesses like Obi-Wan. Although he'd probably just get frustrated in the end and throw a force push... That's another thing though, Grievous normally flees or uses support when he loses the upperhand, in this scenario it wouldn't be possible - what would happen then, would he lash out or simply be defeated? He gets a bit unpredictable then, I reckon that's when he'll bring in the real unorthodox tactics.

Again his Unorhodox Style is much more effective early on - but become more and more familiar to you as you Encounter Grievous - the Fact that you recognise that he Consistenly does this (and Have even named it) proves that he becomes more predictable as the time goes on - and Unprdictability is a much Bigger Factor in Grievious Effectiveness more than virtually any other Duellist especially for the fact that he cannot use the force) .

This would be a plus for Grievous as Savage has never encountered him before.

 

 

Ultimately though I'm not really sure, I think its all a matter of who gets the upper hand first. If Grievous moves in quickly with his lightsabers and keeps up a continuous flurry Savage will be quickly overwhelmed (and unable to use his forces powers effectively on the defensive) But if Savage manages to break his attack, or attack first, he'll quickly turn the tables - then its whether Grievous can pull a trick out of the bag or something to gain the upper hand.

 

I do hope this fight occurs in TCW, and a proper one. Not one were Grievous calls in the Magna-guards to fight for him etc. A proper death match.

[fellblade]

You're not annoying me. I enjoy a good debate. However a debate that takes forever with neither side giving in annoys me. Luckily we haven't done that yet.

 

Both of these combatants are very skilled duelists. They have both fought and killed Jedi. But Grievous has a better rep as a Jedi killer. He also has more war and combat experience than Savage. He has fought in multiple wars. Savage hasn't really fought in the war. Savage's only real advantage is the Force and we've seen Grievous tear certain Jedi Masters apart.

 

Anyway. We both have an opinion and we have both represented our opinion respectfully. Who knows? We may see a Grievous vs. Savage battle on TCW. But Grievous has plot armor so it comes down to Filoni and what he thinks is going to happen.

 

Yep this is Fair Enough - and I do concede that Grievous is a Far more Experienced campaigner and Savage is a relative Newbie and that could be a factor -

But again I do reiterate that I don't see anyone that Grievous has beaten that I don't think Savage Opress couldn't also beat.

 

Again - a lot of the Jedi in that period were unimpressive to me - the fact is essentially that (In Career Training terms)

Johnny Come Latelys Like Grievous and Savage Oppress should not be beating any decent Jedi Master that was theoretically trained from birth - That is why is am in the camp of those that think that when George Lucas was Talking about seeing Jedi in thier prime I believe that he was talking about seeing Jedi in thier own Individual primes rather than the Jedi Order as a Whole at it's prime - especially as to illustrate his point he uses the example of Luke (being Young and Not Fully Trained) Obi Wan (an Old Man) Vader (A Cripple - besides he was getting on a bit too)....

 

I mean the fact that so many of the Jedi in this era were trained in the 'Diplomats Form' of Niman....(which you could say is one thing) - However, the fact that in a Crisis (Geonosis) when Jedi were needed - These (pretty poorly prepared) Jedi were needed to be called upon (and were all subsequently killed) Shows that at least from a Combat Perspective that there wasn't that much strength in depth as a whole for this particular order in my opinion - that this era surely could not have possibly been the prime of Fighting Jedi - Sure, some individual Jedi may have been Some of the best ever - Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi Wan, (those that actually took that Path)

But as a Whole I just cant believe that they would be better fighters than eras of Jedi that were constanly Fighting Wars against Sith and all of them being fully trained in at least 1 Lightsaber Style - all of them seasoned Campaigners that had seen Combat. (I can imagine a lot more survivors from in a task force those eras in the Geonosis Crisis for example)

 

Having the Collected knowledge of the past and actually dedicating yourelf to the Learing and training of it are two different things - If you don't actually utilise it - then it doesn't matter that it exists and that you have it.....

Besides with the Sith seemingly gone forever - perhaps focusing most of your effort training to fight against other Lightsaber Duellists in this era seemed to be a bit less of necessary thing to do............

 

Lol as for Grievous and Opress ever Facing off in Clone Wars - I see Grievous Running away when he is getting Beat (live to Fight another day and all that)

[Aurbere]

Yep this is Fair Enough - and I do concede that Grievous is a Far more Experienced campaigner and Savage is a relative Newbie and that could be a factor -

But again I do reiterate that I don't see anyone that Grievous has beaten that I don't think Savage Opress couldn't also beat.

 

Again - a lot of the Jedi in that period were unimpressive to me - the fact is essentially that (In Career Training terms)

Johnny Come Latelys Like Grievous and Savage Oppress should not be beating any decent Jedi Master that was theoretically trained from birth - That is why is am in the camp of those that think that when George Lucas was Talking about seeing Jedi in thier prime I believe that he was talking about seeing Jedi in thier own Individual primes rather than the Jedi Order as a Whole at it's prime - especially as to illustrate his point he uses the example of Luke (being Young and Not Fully Trained) Obi Wan (an Old Man) Vader (A Cripple - besides he was getting on a bit too)....

 

I mean the fact that so many of the Jedi in this era were trained in the 'Diplomats Form' of Niman....(which you could say is one thing) - However, the fact that in a Crisis (Geonosis) when Jedi were needed - These (pretty poorly prepared) Jedi were needed to be called upon (and were all subsequently killed) Shows that at least from a Combat Perspective that there wasn't that much strength in depth as a whole for this particular order in my opinion - that this era surely could not have possibly been the prime of Fighting Jedi - Sure, some individual Jedi may have been Some of the best ever - Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi Wan, (those that actually took that Path)

But as a Whole I just cant believe that they would be better fighters than eras of Jedi that were constanly Fighting Wars against Sith and all of them being fully trained in at least 1 Lightsaber Style - all of them seasoned Campaigners that had seen Combat. (I can imagine a lot more survivors from in a task force those eras in the Geonosis Crisis for example)

 

Having the Collected knowledge of the past and actually dedicating yourelf to the Learing and training of it are two different things - If you don't actually utilise it - then it doesn't matter that it exists and that you have it.....

Besides with the Sith seemingly gone forever - perhaps focusing most of your effort training to fight against other Lightsaber Duellists in this era seemed to be a bit less of necessary thing to do............

 

Lol as for Grievous and Opress ever Facing off in Clone Wars - I see Grievous Running away when he is getting Beat (live to Fight another day and all that)

 

I understand your logic behind the whole PT Jedi being the best. The fact of the matter is that they were. You make the mistake of thinking that war makes the jedi strong. It only fuels the Dark Side and the Sith. Times of peace increase the strength of the Jedi. They had over 1000 years of peace to perfect and enhance their training. Just as the Sith were doing, but in a far different way. Many Jedi were very skilled warriors, and many of them were the best ever seen.

 

When comparing Old Republic Jedi and Sith against the PT and NJO Jedi and Sith, you can't really use combat experience. While the PT Jedi didn't fight in a war until the Stark Hyperspace War, many of them were very skilled warriors already. The combat experience of the OR Jedi and Sith is nullified by the power of the PT and NJO because they have far more power at their command. But they also have dueling experience. In fact, many masters participate in duels with one another. Qui-Gon Jinn sparred with Mace Windu on many occasions and was actually his equal in dueling ability. Jedi Master Yoda was capable of defeating three of the Order's masters single handedly in a duel.

 

The Jedi training regiment actually requires good dueling skills. They train in similar ways to the Sith through sparring with one another. They do have dueling experience that came in handy during the Clone Wars.

 

Sorry for rambling lol. Anyway. The Grievous versus Savage fight would most likely end up with Grievous fleeing. But in a scenario where fleeing isn't an option, I see Grievous winning. Simply because Grievous fights in a way that would confuse Savage and force him to lash out with anger. And Grievous knows that an angry opponent makes mistakes, that comes from his many years of war experience. I think Grievous would probably use some dirty tactic like in the way he killed Nadarr.

[fellblade]

I do hope this fight occurs in TCW, and a proper one. Not one were Grievous calls in the Magna-guards to fight for him etc. A proper death match.

 

Maybe they Will Fight - but If it does - for some reason I see a situtaion where if Savage gains the upper hand Grievous will run away or be saved by his Droid Army... Or Maybe Maul will intervene if Grievous has the Upper Hand (causing Grievous to Run Away) ....essentially whatever happens..... Grievous will run Away

 

No.... But! Grievous doesn't just use his lightsaber flurrying for show, he uses that merrigoround move, leaping panther, pouncing monkey....

 

As for this.....

It MIGHT (and that is a VERY Reluctant Might) Work against Salacious Crumb - And that is only if Crumb has his back turned and has been previously Rendered unconscious with a Powerful Neuro-Toxin ...... Otherwise... Crumb is SO Avoiding that Move, Jumping to A Ceiling Rafter (Perhaps Taking one of Grievous' eyes) and then Laughing at him.....Actually he may have another little Chuckle before he jumps up to the Ceiling, as well

[Beniboybling]

 

I mean the fact that so many of the Jedi in this era were trained in the 'Diplomats Form' of Niman....(which you could say is one thing) - However, the fact that in a Crisis (Geonosis) when Jedi were needed - These (pretty poorly prepared) Jedi were needed to be called upon (and were all subsequently killed) Shows that at least from a Combat Perspective that there wasn't that much strength in depth as a whole for this particular order in my opinion - that this era surely could not have possibly been the prime of Fighting Jedi - Sure, some individual Jedi may have been Some of the best ever - Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi Wan, (those that actually took that Path)

But as a Whole I just cant believe that they would be better fighters than eras of Jedi that were constanly Fighting Wars against Sith and all of them being fully trained in at least 1 Lightsaber Style - all of them seasoned Campaigners that had seen Combat. (I can imagine a lot more survivors from in a task force those eras in the Geonosis Crisis for example)

 

Having the Collected knowledge of the past and actually dedicating yourelf to the Learing and training of it are two different things - If you don't actually utilise it - then it doesn't matter that it exists and that you have it.....

Besides with the Sith seemingly gone forever - perhaps focusing most of your effort training to fight against other Lightsaber Duellists in this era seemed to be a bit less of necessary thing to do............

 

I made this point in the first round, Bastila Shan vs Asajj Ventress - this is how someone countered and I agree with them:

the Jedi Order of the PT is flat-out more powerful by orders of magnitude over any other BUT the New Jedi Order, this is canon fact backed up by the fact that the Masters of the PT Jedi Order, crush any masters of any time before them.

 

Your idea that war makes a a Jedi stronger is the complete opposite of everything the Jedi are and stand for, conflict makes the SITH more powerful, the nature of the Dark Side is the strong survive, the weak die, the Jedi way and the Light Side is exactly the opposite, a Jedi becomes more powerful by becoming closer and closer with the Force, through much meditation and training, whilst conflict can make a more battle orientated jedi more powerful, it is not the best way by a long shot and usually leads to Dark Side temptation.

 

So in that sense the jedi of the prequel era are actually pretty tough.

[BrandonSM]

Definately, especially after the Premiere, going to give it to Savage.

[SNCommand]

General Grievous has a more impressive list of kills and accomplishments as of now so I'll give it to him for the time being

[Beniboybling]

Definitely, especially after the Premiere, going to give it to Savage.

 

Don't think it changes anything. Yes Savage did kill Adi Gallia by himself, but Grievous also easily defeated Adi Gallia when boarding her ship. Also originally Grievous killed her, so I think he was always canonically more powerful than her. (I find it a funny coincidence that it was Savage that stole Grievous' kill)

 

As for the duel with Obi-Wan, he had Maul's help and still got his arm sliced off. Grievous was able to duel Kenobi on his own and gain the upper hand, although in their final duel Kenobi would ultimately kill him, he did hold out for a bit.

 

Ultimately I'm still siding with Grievous, but only just about.

[fellblade]

General Grievous has a more impressive list of kills and accomplishments as of now so I'll give it to him for the time being

 

Again I ask - Who is it that Grievous has killed that you don't think Savage Opress couldn't also kill?......

(Adi Galia kind of proved what I was Saying and she was always touted as one of Greivous's most prominent kills)

Edited September 30, 2012 by fellblade

[Aurbere]

Again I ask - Who is it that Grievous has killed that you don't think Savage Opress couldn't also kill?......

(Adi Galia kind of proved what I was Saying and she was always touted as one of Greivous's most prominent kills)

 

Look at it this way: Kenobi defeated Maul and Savage at the same time. But he barely beat Grievous. Kinda speaks for itself.

[Warren-Stride]

I'm going to give my vote to General Grievous. No doubt.

 

I'm taking into account the most pure cannon evidence we have about these two. Revenge of the Sith for Grevious, and The Clone Wars series for Savage.

 

In the most recent episode of The Clone Wars, if you watch Savage's lightsaber technique, against both Maul and Obi-wan, (and Dooku in an earlier episode) it's VERY sloppy. He just kinda swings it around in heavy, easily dodged strokes. It's kinda sad really..... why doesn't Maul get Savage's double-blade, Oppress obviously isn't using it effectively.

 

But my mian point is this. Grievous did a MUCH better of combatting Obi-wan. In the films he does get two hands cut off. But I would argue that would probably just make him that much better. I really do wish that fight had had a clear victor.

 

On the other hand, both Mual and Oppress together could not defeat Obi-wan, and both got severly injured. In the case of Oppress, getting an arm cut off = death. Can't really use a double blade with one hand.

 

Of course, I'm just using this as a comparison. To truely guage who would win, just look up on youtube clips from Grievous fighting (even just in the movie and not in the cartoons) and then look at Savage's fights.

 

If the fight comes down to a lightsaber duel, Grievous would win. If Savage used the Force.... that might be a different story. But the swordsmanship award goes to Grievous.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Warren-Stride

[fellblade]

Don't think it changes anything. Yes Savage did kill Adi Gallia by himself, but Grievous also easily defeated Adi Gallia when boarding her ship. Also originally Grievous killed her, so I think he was always canonically more powerful than her. (I find it a funny coincidence that it was Savage that stole Grievous' kill)

 

As for the duel with Obi-Wan, he had Maul's help and still got his arm sliced off. Grievous was able to duel Kenobi on his own and gain the upper hand, although in their final duel Kenobi would ultimately kill him, he did hold out for a bit.

 

Ultimately I'm still siding with Grievous, but only just about.

 

Savage taking Grievous' kill was symbolic - Grievous was the Old Monster - Savage is the New One

(and it also shows Lucas himself is on my side of the Argument and went out of his way to prove my point about Savage being able to beat who Grievous can beat )

 

I think in that Obi Wan Fight, Savage was overconfident due to them outnumbering Kenobi and took his eye off the ball when they had Obi Wan in a Vulnerable position - (again where his lack of experience shows).....and a factor I conceded could be to Grievous' advantage.....

 

Again I think the Sloppyness of his technique is a bit overstated - Yes, Compared to Maul or Dooku his technique is pretty lacking (as Shown in the Fight for dominance) - But Grievous Technically is no Maul or Dooku Either and neither are most Jedi....

What about Ventress? - Savage did ok against her, definitely held his own (perhaps even edged it on points)

Ventress Outmatched Grievous who needed the droid backup - And Ventress's technique is considered somewhat unrefined also (seems you don't need perfect technique to outduel Grievous - perhaps Not letting him get to you psychologically and a relentless determination can be enough) ....... It seems that you need the technical level of a Dooku or a Maul before you can exploit this - and Dooku exploited this lack of perfect technique in Grievous as well.....

 

I have seen enough to Go with Opress especially if you match these two Fighters (strengths/weaknesses) against each other

[fellblade]

Look at it this way: Kenobi defeated Maul and Savage at the same time. But he barely beat Grievous. Kinda speaks for itself.

 

He Held off against Maul and Savage - Injured Savage and then Got a Powerful Force push from Maul into a wall and the cave collapsed..... Obi Wan caused no injuries to Maul or ever had him in a vulnerable position........

[Aurbere]

 

He Held off against Maul and Savage - Injured Savage and then Got a Powerful Force push from Maul into a wall and the cave collapsed..... Obi Wan caused no injuries to Maul or ever had him in a vulnerable position........

 

The point is, Obi-Wan defeated them both but almost lost to Grievous.

 

And victory doesn't always mean the death or dismemberment of an opponent. That's one of the first things Master Cin Drallig teaches his students.

 

EDIT: Wait. I misread your post lol. Still, he had lost to them before and then defeats them.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Aurbere

[fellblade]

The point is, Obi-Wan defeated them both but almost lost to Grievous.

 

And victory doesn't always mean the death or dismemberment of an opponent. That's one of the first things Master Cin Drallig teaches his students.

 

EDIT: Wait. I misread your post lol. Still, he had lost to them before and then defeats them.

 

Cin Drallig was defeated by Vader - does choking to death count?

 

Again - I saw Obi Wan being picked up with the Force and Slammed into a Wall by Maul then the saberlock where he injures Opress and then the Final move of the fight being HIM shoved into the wall with a force push by Maul - perhaps if the Cave never collapsed and Maul not caring about Savage Opress... perhaps things may have been different..... When was Maul disarmed, injured, Controlled by the force or vulnerable to him ?

 

If You mean defeat as in 'scuppering' their plans - then Yes i will concede that... (but perhaps he did them a favour - after all, Mandalorians make better recruits than pirates )

 

What about Grievous Vs Ventress? She seemed to be able to defeat him........Savage Opress gave her a lot harder a time and the way that Ventress defeated Grievous (Relentless striking toe to toe) seems to lend itself to Savage's strengths......

 

Obi Wan is a defensive fighter that exploits bad Mistakes (which I have conceded that Savage is capable of making) - perhaps this style will take longer to defeat Grievous

 

However -Obi wan doing better against the 2 of them this time does show the 'on any given day' nature of fights - and in all honesty whatever is needed for the planned plotline going forward is the biggest factor in who will be the Victor in these things...... despite what has happened in the past and what we think of a Fighter's abilities.....

[Slowpokeking]

2D CW GG stomps him, TCW GG will get owned.

[Aurbere]

Cin Drallig was defeated by Vader - does choking to death count?

 

Again - I saw Obi Wan being picked up with the Force and Slammed into a Wall by Maul then the saberlock where he injures Opress and then the Final move of the fight being HIM shoved into the wall with a force push by Maul - perhaps if the Cave never collapsed and Maul not caring about Savage Opress... perhaps things may have been different..... When was Maul disarmed, injured, Controlled by the force or vulnerable to him ?

 

If You mean defeat as in 'scuppering' their plans - then Yes i will concede that... (but perhaps he did them a favour - after all, Mandalorians make better recruits than pirates )

 

What about Grievous Vs Ventress? She seemed to be able to defeat him........Savage Opress gave her a lot harder a time and the way that Ventress defeated Grievous (Relentless striking toe to toe) seems to lend itself to Savage's strengths......

 

Obi Wan is a defensive fighter that exploits bad Mistakes (which I have conceded that Savage is capable of making) - perhaps this style will take longer to defeat Grievous

 

However -Obi wan doing better against the 2 of them this time does show the 'on any given day' nature of fights - and in all honesty whatever is needed for the planned plotline going forward is the biggest factor in who will be the Victor in these things...... despite what has happened in the past and what we think of a Fighter's abilities.....

 

Poor Cin Drallig. Still he taught many of the Order's best.

 

Anyway, it depends on the plotline if Grievous does fight Savage it would be either very short or very long. Both of them are very persistent duelists and the fight could go any way. It depends on how they use their skills to their advantage. In that regard, Grievous would win because of his experience. Once Grievous pushes the advantage, it falls to Savage to use the Force to stop Grievous. But again, Grievous has beaten Force users before so Savage's use of the Force would be mainly to stop Grievous and level the playing field.

 

But I don't think Grievous will get the chance to fight Savage due to Sidious fighting Maul and Savage and I see him killing both of them.

[fellblade]

Poor Cin Drallig. Still he taught many of the Order's best.

 

Anyway, it depends on the plotline if Grievous does fight Savage it would be either very short or very long. Both of them are very persistent duelists and the fight could go any way. It depends on how they use their skills to their advantage. In that regard, Grievous would win because of his experience. Once Grievous pushes the advantage, it falls to Savage to use the Force to stop Grievous. But again, Grievous has beaten Force users before so Savage's use of the Force would be mainly to stop Grievous and level the playing field.

 

But I don't think Grievous will get the chance to fight Savage due to Sidious fighting Maul and Savage and I see him killing both of them.

 

That's what I think - Sidious will kill them both - First Savage - This will enrage Maul (to give Sidious a bit of a better Challenge) - But then Sidious will beat him - Probably a Lightning Finish...

[Aurbere]

That's what I think - Sidious will kill them both - First Savage - This will enrage Maul (to give Sidious a bit of a better Challenge) - But then Sidious will beat him - Probably a Lightning Finish...

 

And we saw how upset Maul got when Savage was in trouble so Sidious could use that to his advantage. It's gonna be an interesting fight for sure. I can't wait to see it.

[DarthBandeth]

2D CW GG stomps him, TCW GG will get owned.

 

Quoted for truth.