Round 3: Grievous vs Savage Oppress

[Beniboybling]

Round 2 (Visas Marr vs Brianna) was a far closer fight, so for now I'm calling it a draw. And thanks to Selenial who's writing a fan-fiction on it, looks great so far!

 

But here's Round 3: General Grievous vs Savage Oppress

 

Both Grievous and Savage were considered ‘monsters’ during the Clone Wars. Grievous was a powerful cyborg general and skilled with a lightsaber, but no affinity in the force. Savage Oppress was the opposite; he had poor technique with a lightsaber, but great power in the force.

 

If you don’t watch Clone Wars, here’s some clips so you can get an idea of their power:

Grievous:

Savage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKJFo1AFid8

 

General Grievous had learned all lightsaber forms including the rare Makatashi and Juyo and could wield four lightsabers at a time. He has killed dozens of Jedi masters, knights and padawans – earning him the nickname ‘The Knight Slayer’.

 

(For the sake of this argument I’m counting all Grievous’ abilities in TCW 2003 series as non-canon)

 

Savage Oppress wielded a saberstaff but was far from a master in lightsaber combat. However through brute strength he could overwhelm almost any opponent, even Count Dooku. He also had considerable power in the force, more powerful than his brother Maul.

 

Who would win?

 

(EDIT: I get the feeling that this fight may soon become reality. What with Savage and Maul carousing across the galaxy they are bound to run into Grievous at some point. Its also hinted at when Dooku warns Grievous against this new threat. So, place your bets!)

Edited September 23, 2012 by Beniboybling

[BrandonSM]

Grevious Vs. Darth Maul is pretty much what this is.

 

Since TCW is making them seem near equals by Maul a tad more powerful.

 

 

Savage Wins, Obi-wan could not beat him.

Edited September 23, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Aurbere]

Grievous wins. He has dueled some of the best Jedi (including Mace Windu) and survived these fights. He has learned all of the lightsaber forms from Count Dooku and could use them in combination with the speed of a machine. Savage may be impressive, but Grievous is proven to be a far superior duelist.

 

Note: I'm taking all canon information of Grievous, but not the Clone Wars. Even though TCW is canon, they aren't true to his character.

[Beniboybling]

Savage Wins, Obi-wan or Count couldn't beat him.

Obi-Wan debatable, in a prolonged fight he may be able to defeat him. But Dooku would wipe the floor with Savage, in fact he pretty much does

[BrandonSM]

Grievous wins. He has dueled some of the best Jedi (including Mace Windu) and survived these fights. He has learned all of the lightsaber forms from Count Dooku and could use them in combination with the speed of a machine. Savage may be impressive, but Grievous is proven to be a far superior duelist.

 

Note: I'm taking all canon information of Grievous, but not the Clone Wars. Even though TCW is canon, they aren't true to his character.

 

He fled. Plus, Windu literally broke Grevious without even engaging him in combat.

 

Considering, Savage became much stronger than when we saw him against Dooku. By the time of when he met up with Maul, Ventress was no match for him. Ventress, the girl who wounded Anakin Skywalker and was an obvious threat to most Jedi.

 

 

I find your comment abotu TCW Not being true to Grevious's so weird. Because, TCW is following the movies when it comes to Grevious. The Movies depicted him as a coward who fled allot [/b ]and could not take on Obi-wan Kenobi. Not some Jedi Killer who killed dozens of Jedi.

 

Its the Author's of the EU who are at fault for making him into something he was never meant to be.

[BrandonSM]

Obi-Wan debatable, in a prolonged fight he may be able to defeat him. But Dooku would wipe the floor with Savage, in fact he pretty much does

 

If were talking Savage in his prime, it would be after that fight and when he met up with Maul.

[tolaf]

Depends Greivous from the old animated series or the new one?

If it was him fromt he old one he wouldwin because he was a major bada** who was able to beat windu easy.

If is the new series then he would lose in a second, that Greivous is a joke.

[Beniboybling]

Depends Greivous from the old animated series or the new one?

If it was him fromt he old one he wouldwin because he was a major bada** who was able to beat windu easy.

If is the new series then he would lose in a second, that Greivous is a joke.

 

Like I said, I'm counting all Grevious' abilities from the original 2003 series as non-canon. Because his abilites are ridiculously overpowered. Even so, the canon Grievous is a formidable opponent. And in terms of lightsaber combat, would easily best Savage who had little skill at all. Also consider that Savage has gone from some dathomir villager, to a sith acolyte in what, months? He has little/no experience whereas Grievous has been a warrior all his life. Savage's power is great, but at this stage, very unrefined.

[Aurbere]

He fled. Plus, Windu literally broke Grevious without even engaging him in combat.

 

Considering, Savage became much stronger than when we saw him against Dooku. By the time of when he met up with Maul, Ventress was no match for him. Ventress, the girl who wounded Anakin Skywalker and was an obvious threat to most Jedi.

 

 

I find your comment abotu TCW Not being true to Grevious's so weird. Because, TCW is following the movies when it comes to Grevious. The Movies depicted him as a coward who fled allot [/b ]and could not take on Obi-wan Kenobi. Not some Jedi Killer who killed dozens of Jedi.

 

Its the Author's of the EU who are at fault for making him into something he was never meant to be.

 

Granted the authors did make Grievous a very powerful character, but all that he has done is canon.

 

Mace beat Grievous because Mace is obviously the second best duelist in the Order and Grievous has no defense against powers like Force crush,

 

Well, TCW has really damaged the character that was set up by the EU authors. So they pretty much ignored the EU writings to make him like he is in the movie. As we have seen, Obi-Wan Kenobi has faced Grievous multiple times in battle. And because he is the Soresu master, he was able to see through Grievous' attack and decimate him. Savage can't do that.

 

Overall, I think Grievous would destroy Savage in lightsaber combat, but his vulnerability to Force powers might be his undoing. Although we have seen Grievous defeat powerful Jedi in combat. Savage would be no different.

[BrandonSM]

Well, TCW has really damaged the character that was set up by the EU authors. So they pretty much ignored the EU writings to make him like he is in the movie. As we have seen, Obi-Wan Kenobi has faced Grievous multiple times in battle. And because he is the Soresu master, he was able to see through Grievous' attack and decimate him. Savage can't do that.

 

Exactly, their trying to make it more like the Movie because their one level below G-Canon and George is also on the project. They didn't ignore the EU, the EU ignored The Movies and who do you think the cast is going to follow?

[YoshiRaphElan]

Grievous. Savage seems surprisingly weak, needing Maul's backup to do anything. Not that I'm hating, it's just my opinion, is all.

[BrandonSM]

Grievous. Savage seems surprisingly weak, needing Maul's backup to do anything. Not that I'm hating, it's just my opinion, is all.

 

..?

 

They've only fought 2-3 times together.

[Aurbere]

Exactly, their trying to make it more like the Movie because their one level below G-Canon and George is also on the project. They didn't ignore the EU, the EU ignored The Movies and who do you think the cast is going to follow?

 

Well, obviously the movie version. I think the authors wanted to make Grievous something more menacing. Someone who could actually wage a war with the Republic. While Dooku is smart politically and in Lightsaber combat, he doesn't have the tactical genius to create strategies like Grievous.

[BrandonSM]

Well, obviously the movie version. I think the authors wanted to make Grievous something more menacing. Someone who could actually wage a war with the Republic. While Dooku is smart politically and in Lightsaber combat, he doesn't have the tactical genius to create strategies like Grievous.

 

THats what TCW is doing imo. He is being portrayed as more of a general than a combatant especially with Malevolence.

[Aurbere]

THats what TCW is doing imo. He is being portrayed as more of a general than a combatant especially with Malevolence.

 

The Malevolence arc is his best imo. Then the Kamino invasion. They really showed his tactical genius, but then things fall apart. I can't remember how, though. Need to re-watch those episodes.

[Vepariga]

Grievous wins. He has dueled some of the best Jedi (including Mace Windu) and survived these fights. He has learned all of the lightsaber forms from Count Dooku and could use them in combination with the speed of a machine. Savage may be impressive, but Grievous is proven to be a far superior duelist.

 

Note: I'm taking all canon information of Grievous, but not the Clone Wars. Even though TCW is canon, they aren't true to his character.

 

TCW is more true to his character then Dragonballclone wars.

 

Grevious is a coward,granted he has some great skills and has killed many jedi even in official canon. I think Grevious would beat Savage if his life depended on it.

[fellblade]

I'll go for Savage Opress - in the Clone wars Series (that they are both part of) Oppress seems far More Impressive and dominant than Grievious.

 

Grievious was always going to be of limited potential because of his lack of Force ability - I remember Dooku saying that Grievous should use the element of Surprise and find favourable situations when fighting Jedi.

Besides he cannot truly master lightsaber forms as it requires a connection to the force - he can only mechanically replicate the actual combat techniques and use his robotic body to move in unorthodox ways to give him unusual angles of attack and leverage.

 

When Grievous first came on the scene, he was devastating mainly because he was an unknown quantity (and the Jedi were kind of scared of him because of this - so he had a psychological advantage which may have affected their clarity and connection to the force when facing him) - as time went on the Jedi seemed to 'figure out' Grievous and he seemed to become less effective in hand to hand against them. (Remember how easily Dooku used to school Grievous - because he knew what Grievous was about so he held no surprises for Dooku....)

 

At the Start of the Clone Wars I would have said that Grievous was better than Ventress as the Clone Wars went on Ventress improved and Grievous regressed (or perhaps just stayed on the same level while others began to surpass him). Grievous doesn't really have that kind of potential to improve in the same way that every force user can (remember that for Jedi and Sith - Force connection can increase saber skills - as they become more powerful their Skills will increase)

 

I can see Savage Opress (not being intimdated by Grievous) using a Mixture of Raw but powerful Telekinetics and Aggressive saber strikes to off balance and overwhelm Grievous.....not to mention that Savage's powers will be fueled by Rage as the fight goes on.

[Beniboybling]

..?

 

They've only fought 2-3 times together.

 

He did however, need Ventress's support to defeat Dooku - I wouldn't say he's weak though. He's just been put up against powerful enemies.

[CassusVerda]

Exactly, their trying to make it more like the Movie because their one level below G-Canon and George is also on the project. They didn't ignore the EU, the EU ignored The Movies and who do you think the cast is going to follow?

 

Actually....Grievous is an example of the Movies ignoring the EU. Because he appeared first in Clone Wars then....he appeared in Revenge of the Sith. Ergo.. They are ignoring the EU.

[YoshiRaphElan]

..?

 

They've only fought 2-3 times together.

 

True, but the only "enemies" he can defeat are those techie-Jawa-things on the junk planet and a few battle droids and Toydarians. Anyone could do that. Not hatin' on Savage, but Grievous is better.

[fellblade]

True, but the only "enemies" he can defeat are those techie-Jawa-things on the junk planet and a few battle droids and Toydarians. Anyone could do that. Not hatin' on Savage, but Grievous is better.

 

 

In All honesty - I think you are kind of Hatin on Savage

 

What About the Jedi Master he beat in About 10 Seconds Just using a Vibro Axe???

 

And Nobody has yet Answered how Grievous is Going to Get past Savage Opress' Telekinects - Which Grievous has been shown to be Vulnerable to - Once he starts losing he has the Magnaguards interfere (and this is against lesser Jedi than Obi Wan and Anakin) - (and Savage Opress tends to use the force a lot in Fights) Savage uses his Telekinetics in more Powerful and destructive ways than those Jedi, especially as he becomes more enraged and desperate - the longer the fight goes on the more and more it leans in Savage's Favour

 

Savage Opress has been shown to be able to regularly catch other much more experienced force users with these abilities- Throwing Obi Wan and Anakin about like Rag Dolls, Simultaneously Force Choking both Dooku and Ventress and Using a Single Force Wave to Destroy an entire battle-droid Squadron Ambush (and at the Same time Stunning Obi Wan and Anakin)

 

In all honesty the main thing going against Savage is his inexperience - but If you put the abilities they can bring to a fight and match them up head to head and look at how they potentially can be used to counter each other, Savage Clearly has the advantage in my opinion

 

That is why Dooku wanted someone like Savage Opress in the first place - Grievous is limited......If Dooku was ever going to face off against Sidious it would have been a Joke for him to even consider teaming up with Grievous to do it (And Dooku knows Grievous' potential more than anybody) - However Dooku himself said that if he could get Savage up to the Power Level of Darth Maul then he believed that they would be able to overthrow Sidious

 

Also - Savage Opress would never been Captured by..........Gungans........

[Aurbere]

In All honesty - I think you are kind of Hatin on Savage

 

What About the Jedi Master he beat in About 10 Seconds Just using a Vibro Axe???

 

And Nobody has yet Answered how Grievous is Going to Get past Savage Opress' Telekinects - Which Grievous has been shown to be Vulnerable to - Once he starts losing he has the Magnaguards interfere (and this is against lesser Jedi than Obi Wan and Anakin) - (and Savage Opress tends to use the force a lot in Fights) Savage uses his Telekinetics in more Powerful and destructive ways than those Jedi, especially as he becomes more enraged and desperate - the longer the fight goes on the more and more it leans in Savage's Favour

 

Savage Opress has been shown to be able to regularly catch other much more experienced force users with these abilities- Throwing Obi Wan and Anakin about like Rag Dolls, Simultaneously Force Choking both Dooku and Ventress and Using a Single Force Wave to Destroy an entire battle-droid Squadron Ambush (and at the Same time Stunning Obi Wan and Anakin)

 

In all honesty the main thing going against Savage is his inexperience - but If you put the abilities they can bring to a fight and match them up head to head and look at how they potentially can be used to counter each other, Savage Clearly has the advantage in my opinion

 

That is why Dooku wanted someone like Savage Opress in the first place - Grievous is limited......If Dooku was ever going to face off against Sidious it would have been a Joke for him to even consider teaming up with Grievous to do it (And Dooku knows Grievous' potential more than anybody) - However Dooku himself said that if he could get Savage up to the Power Level of Darth Maul then he believed that they would be able to overthrow Sidious

 

Also - Savage Opress would never been Captured by..........Gungans........

 

I think you underestimate Grievous. Grievous has fought many Jedi and killed them just as fast. Grievous has killed Jedi Masters before. Adi Gallia is one of them. He has faced Force users in battle and knows his weakness. While Savage uses the Force more aggresively, Grievous' dueling abilities take this one.

 

I look at that gungan fiasco as a way for Georgie to make Jar Jar and his people seem cooler. Didin't work.

[Beniboybling]

Also - Savage Opress would never been Captured by..........Gungans........

 

There were a lot of gungans!

[fellblade]

I think you underestimate Grievous. Grievous has fought many Jedi and killed them just as fast. Grievous has killed Jedi Masters before. Adi Gallia is one of them. He has faced Force users in battle and knows his weakness. While Savage uses the Force more aggresively, Grievous' dueling abilities take this one.

 

I look at that gungan fiasco as a way for Georgie to make Jar Jar and his people seem cooler. Didin't work.

 

 

And I think you overrate Grievous and underestimate Savage Opress

 

But as you said - While Savage uses the Force more aggressively - THIS is definitely a Factor.......

 

Unlike most Jedi - Savage will not care about using Anger and Hatred to cripple Grievous' - let alone his Vulnerable Organic Parts (as Mace Windu Showed)

 

And as Far as Duelling abilities - I see no evidence where Grievous is better - They Both Trash throw away characters and tend to Hold Thier own against main Characters - And I see nobody that Grievous has beaten that I wouldn't think Savage Opress could beat Also.......

 

Actually beyond our own opinions - we do have a common Foe - Ventress - She Out-Duelled Grievous and knocked him on his *** (and the funny thing was - it was toe to toe where SHE overwhelmed Him) - Grievous had to call on his battle Droid Squadron to Fire on Her before she could finish him off....

 

Ventress and Obi Wan had to Flee - because they were outmatched VS Savage Opress and Darth Maul

and look at that Fight , Opress looked a lot more viable an opponent for Ventress - knocking her about a bit and disarming her......In all honesty looking a significantly harder opponent for her than Grievous.....And Savage Opress is probably (quite a bit) Physically Stronger than anyone that Grievous has faced - his Punches and kicks will be viable in a fight between the two and his strength could be a significant factor in Saberlocks etc....

 

Fiasco or not we have to live with it.... the Gungans did capture him - and in not too different a situation to when Savage was ambushed by the Battle Droids ... point is - That Savage had extra cards up his sleeve to get out of a Situation than that.....

 

Grievous was an Impact player at first but got less effective as time went on as he lost his initial momentum and became more of a known quantity - he went from dominating 4 Jedi at a time - to needing interference from his Magna Guards quite a lot when dealing with Single ones.....

[Aurbere]

And I think you overrate Grievous and underestimate Savage Opress

 

But as you said - While Savage uses the Force more aggressively - THIS is definitely a Factor.......

 

Unlike most Jedi - Savage will not care about using Anger and Hatred to cripple Grievous' - let alone his Vulnerable Organic Parts (as Mace Windu Showed)

 

And as Far as Duelling abilities - I see no evidence where Grievous is better - They Both Trash throw away characters and tend to Hold Thier own against main Characters - And I see nobody that Grievous has beaten that I wouldn't think Savage Opress could beat Also.......

 

Actually beyond our own opinions - we do have a common Foe - Ventress - She Out-Duelled Grievous and knocked him on his *** (and the funny thing was - it was toe to toe where SHE overwhelmed Him) - Grievous had to call on his battle Droid Squadron to Fire on Her before she could finish him off....

 

Ventress and Obi Wan had to Flee - because they were outmatched VS Savage Opress and Darth Maul

and look at that Fight , Opress looked a lot more viable an opponent for Ventress - knocking her about a bit and disarming her......In all honesty looking a significantly harder opponent for her than Grievous.....And Savage Opress is probably (quite a bit) Physically Stronger than anyone that Grievous has faced - his Punches and kicks will be viable in a fight between the two and his strength could be a significant factor in Saberlocks etc....

 

Fiasco or not we have to live with it.... the Gungans did capture him - and in not too different a situation to when Savage was ambushed by the Battle Droids ... point is - That Savage had extra cards up his sleeve to get out of a Situation than that.....

 

Grievous was an Impact player at first but got less effective as time went on as he lost his initial momentum and became more of a known quantity - he went from dominating 4 Jedi at a time - to needing interference from his Magna Guards quite a lot when dealing with Single ones.....

 

All true, but I believe Grievous has better dueling skills than Savage. While Savage has the Force. It really comes down to who has more battle experience and who can get momentum on their side. Both of them like to get the advantage early. It really depends on who can bring everything they have down to bear on their opponent.