TOR is amazing! =) ...But the game management is awful :(

[SpazCats]

Yes they have, and at the begining of launch they always boasted about how they would never go F2P like those other cheap games.

 

Yeah, I thought so. So what Namshub said;

 

That was not the original plan with SWTOR. Bioware launched as a subscription service because they planned to have much greater player retention than they did. The F2P/Freemium model works okay for games that don't have a strong competitive edge over other games in the market by lowering the commitment required to play it. When you have a market leader you don't go with that model since it doesn't provide the optimum ROI.

 

Moving away from the subscription model so soon after launch is an admission that SWTOR isn't recognized by the market as having a strong value proposition when compared with other games. This isn't a move that Bioware and EA are happy to make, it's one they are being forced to make because their value proposition isn't strong.

 

has more of the ring of truth to it.

[Andryah]

Didn't Bioware/EA smack talk F2P games not too long ago?

 

EDIT: I should say, the F2P model, not games specifically

 

They smack talk everything. What exactly does that prove, other then feeding hype to the hyperactive player base?? MMO players expect it, crave it even. Some just take it too seriously and think that a company must stick with it's launch business plan no matter what... even though the players themselves have no such steadfastness.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Andryah

[Balthorczar]

I feel so silly for how much I have wanted to love this game, but I have always felt from the start, that this game was being run by people that have heard the term "mmo rpg" , but had never played one.

[tolaf]

They smack talk everything. What exactly does that prove, other then feeding hype to the hyperactive player base?? MMO players expect it. Some just take it too seriously and think that a company must stick with it's launch business plan no matter what... even though the players themselves have no such steadfastness.

 

Yes but you asked how we knew they didn't plan to go F2P, which you just admitted they didn't, but changed that plan. which is what we were saying.

[SpazCats]

They smack talk everything. What exactly does that prove, other then feeding hype to the hyperactive player base?? MMO players expect it, crave it even. Some just take it too seriously and think that a company must stick with it's launch business plan no matter what... even though the players themselves have no such steadfastness.

 

I was responding to this;

 

How do you know? Are you privvy to inside information?

 

If you follow the interviews and public access info on the topic, it's pretty clear they had been looking at Freemium for a long time, and maybe even since/before launch. There are rumors that Lucas Arts nixxed freemium at launch, whereas EA/Bioware wanted it.

 

If Bioware/EA smack talked F2P, then it does not make sense that they were originally planning it.

 

It is what it is now, but it does no good to put misinformation out there.

[tolaf]

They smack talk everything. What exactly does that prove, other then feeding hype to the hyperactive player base?? MMO players expect it, crave it even. Some just take it too seriously and think that a company must stick with it's launch business plan no matter what... even though the players themselves have no such steadfastness.

 

While i've never agreed with you, you've always used sound logic and reasoning (for the most part).

But here it seems you are slipping.

Edited September 19, 2012 by tolaf

[GalacticKegger]

Qft op ... Qft.

[Andryah]

Yes but you asked how we knew they didn't plan to go F2P, which you just admitted they didn't, but changed that plan. which is what we were saying.

 

I said no such thing. I simply acknowledged that they smack talk... which has no required basis in what they may/may-not be doing behind the scenes. Please stop distorting.

 

MMO gaming companies talking smack is marketing fodder to the masses, nothing more nothing less. To insist it ties to their actual internal plans is fallacy.

[SpazCats]

I said no such thing. I simply acknowledged that they smack talk... which has no required basis in what they may/may-not be doing behind the scenes. Please stop distorting.

 

MMO gaming companies talking smack is marketing fodder to the masses, nothing more nothing less. To insist it ties to their actual internal plans is fallacy.

 

lol! A company PLANNING to go F2P is not going to smack talk it!

[tolaf]

I said no such thing. I simply acknowledged that they smack talk... which has no required basis in what they may/may-not be doing behind the scenes. Please stop distorting.

 

MMO gaming companies talking smack is marketing fodder to the masses, nothing more nothing less. To insist it ties to their actual internal plans is fallacy.

 

Bad mouthing your future economic plans seems like a bad idea imo.

[Andryah]

Bad mouthing your future economic plans seems like a bad idea imo.

 

Right. The concept of contingency plans are lost on you then.

 

Corporations do this sort of marketing all the time, while the management team plans and stockpiles contingency plans for best case to worst case. They market with their best foot while contingency planning something less.

 

If the game became the new WoW, they would run with it as sub only (ie: bucking the strong market forces in the MMO space). If the results are more in line with other modern MMOs (ie: 60-70% attrition in the first year) then they have alternate plans for commercial success (ie: playing into the strong market forces in the MMO space).

 

To you it's a game, to them it's a business. There is a large and fundamental difference which many here are myopic to.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Andryah

[Dokar]

Right. The concept of contingency plans are lost on you then.

 

Corporations do this sort of marketing all the time, while the management team plans and stockpiles contingency plans for best case to worst case. They market with their best foot while contingency planning something less.

 

If the game became the new WoW, they would run with it as sub only (ie: bucking the strong market forces in the MMO space). If the results are more in line with other modern MMOs (ie: 60-70% attrition in the first year) then they have alternate plans for commercial success (ie: playing into the strong market forces in the MMO space).

 

To you it's a game, to them it's a business. There is a large and fundamental difference which many here are myopic to.

 

That is like saying you planned to burn the building down if there is a fire and you have contingency plans for dealing with it.

[SpazCats]

Right. The concept of contingency plans are lost on you then.

 

Corporations do this sort of marketing all the time, while the management team plans and stockpiles contingency plans for best case to worst case. They market with their best foot while contingency planning something less.

 

If the game became the new WoW, they would run with it as sub only (ie: bucking the strong market forces in the MMO space). If the results are more in line with other modern MMOs (ie: 60-70% attrition in the first year) then they have alternate plans for commercial success (ie: playing into the strong market forces in the MMO space).

 

To you it's a game, to them it's a business. There is a large and fundamental difference which many here are myopic to.

 

Bad mouthing plan B of your future economic plans seems like a bad idea too.

 

It makes more sense that Bioware never planned to go F2P at all (well, maybe several years down the road, but certainly not anywhere so soon as they are now).

[Andryah]

That is like saying you planned to burn the building down if there is a fire and you have contingency plans for dealing with it.

 

No, it's not. Using an extreme metaphor does not legitimize your claims.

[Andryah]

Bad mouthing plan B of your future economic plans seems like a bad idea too.

 

It makes more sense that Bioware never planned to go F2P at all (well, maybe several years down the road, but certainly not anywhere so soon as they are now).

 

Nonsense. This is exactly what companies do, precisely because they know the smack talk will be past tense in the short attention span of the general audience. Talk up the launch choice, later on talk up plan b when you go with it.

 

The one thing they are fundamentally guilty of is thinking that they could break the trend of subs attrition that has plagued every other MMO released in the last few years (including WoW bleeding out 40-50% of paid subs since their last expansion). NONE of us know the specifics of why they did it anyway. Perhaps it was EA arrogance, perhaps it was Lucas Arts pressure on the business model, etc. etc. We will never know. What we know is they launched with a subs only model flying in the face of a market where the majority of revenue in 2012 is earned in a freemium/f2p model set. We also know when they saw they could not do it, they went rather quickly to a plan that was on the shelf (given how quickly they were able to pivot to it).

Edited September 19, 2012 by Andryah

[SpazCats]

Nonsense. This is exactly what companies do, precisely because they know the smack talk will be past tense in the short attention span of the general audience. Talk up the launch choice, later on talk up plan b when you go with it.

 

The one thing they are fundamentally guilty of is thinking that they could break the trend of subs attrition that has plagued every other MMO released in the last few years (including WoW bleeding out 40-50% of paid subs since their last expansion). NONE of us know the specifics of why they did it anyway. Perhaps it was EA arrogance, perhaps it was Lucas Arts pressure on the business model, etc. etc. We will never know. What we know is they launched with a subs only model flying in the face of a market where the majority of revenue in 2012 is earned in a freemium/f2p model set. We also know when they saw they could not do it, they went rather quickly to a plan that was on the shelf (given how quickly they were able to pivot to it).

 

What I said is not nonsense at all.

 

A company is not going to smack talk their plans, contingency or not. If F2P was a serious thought AT ALL as a contingency if the sub model did not work, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BAD MOUTHED F2P.

 

Talking in circles does not legitimize your claims.

[jamesvasquez]

Without question, Tor is a horrible game that is still, unbelievably, missing so many features and is a bore to play after a short time. The game now performs barely any better than from launch and has so many issues that are not being addressed that it drove away so many players that a massive amount of servers needed to be shutdown and is going F2P to try and squeeze the lemon dry.

 

Can someone explain to me how this still happens? Feedback that is not constructive in the least from a person who just wants to troll all day. I don't understand the point. I mean I get what he's trying to say. What I don't understand is how with evidence to the contrary and legitimate arguments people are still capable of saying these things. This game has it's problems, without question, but terrible? No way. If it were terrible it wouldn't have the subscribers it does today. There wouldn't be people fighting to talk to the dev team to improve the things that need improving. There wouldn't be so many people fighting to make this game better. Why is the category "General Discussion" when it's really just a camp for trolls? I just don't understand how people's brains are wired sometimes.

[tolaf]

Nonsense. This is exactly what companies do, precisely because they know the smack talk will be past tense in the short attention span of the general audience. Talk up the launch choice, later on talk up plan b when you go with it.

 

The one thing they are fundamentally guilty of is thinking that they could break the trend of subs attrition that has plagued every other MMO released in the last few years (including WoW bleeding out 40-50% of paid subs since their last expansion). NONE of us know the specifics of why they did it anyway. Perhaps it was EA arrogance, perhaps it was Lucas Arts pressure on the business model, etc. etc. We will never know. What we know is they launched with a subs only model flying in the face of a market where the majority of revenue in 2012 is earned in a freemium/f2p model set. We also know when they saw they could not do it, they went rather quickly to a plan that was on the shelf (given how quickly they were able to pivot to it).

 

Maybe i'm stupid, but i still don't get why you would talk bad about your future plans.

Maybe i'm just not a corporate "genius."

[SpazCats]

Can someone explain to me how this still happens? Feedback that is not constructive in the least from a person who just wants to troll all day. I don't understand the point. I mean I get what he's trying to say. What I don't understand is how with evidence to the contrary and legitimate arguments people are still capable of saying these things. This game has it's problems, without question, but terrible? No way. If it were terrible it wouldn't have the subscribers it does today. There wouldn't be people fighting to talk to the dev team to improve the things that need improving. There wouldn't be so many people fighting to make this game better. Why is the category "General Discussion" when it's really just a camp for trolls? I just don't understand how people's brains are wired sometimes.

 

I agree. The game is far from terrible, but some people (including me) get frustrated when they see such potential being wasted. The post you are quoting could have been worded a little better for sure though.

[Pherdnut]

I feel so silly for how much I have wanted to love this game, but I have always felt from the start, that this game was being run by people that have heard the term "mmo rpg" , but had never played one.

 

The problem IMO is not they never played one, but rather that they only played WoW.

[jamesvasquez]

The problem IMO is not they never played one, but rather that they only played WoW.

 

I hated WoW. I love SWTOR. Pretty much sums up how similar they are. Some game mechanics are parallel but that doesn't make the game a clone.