Clearing up the Force.

[Aurbere]

i wrote that on my phone before i went to sleep last night, and my typos are terribad, and its very hard to edit using a phone so i'm not surprised it was misunderstood. i'm glad some1 got the idea tho

 

@aurbere, my point about the end of FOTJ was i believe the next generation of star wars will be the queen of the jedi, and the throne of balance. and that whole storyline to me makes more sense if we talk about one force

 

one last thing. darkside and lightside, if we had 2 separate forces then surely we would call them dark force and light force, and not the darkside of the force and the lightside of the force.

 

but something telling that you did say, i agree with, i'm sure GL himself is not sure exactly how he wants the force to be or even exactly what it is

 

Your theory does make sense and the throne of balance stuff backs it up. I personally don't know much about that stuff. I'm still reading FOTJ, so I'll learn more about it when I read through it. Personally, I don't think the throne of balance deals with the Force as a whole. I personally, based on the Mortis episode trilogy of TCW, that the throne deals with the balance of power on Mortis. And I believe Mortis was a nexus of Force energy during TCW. I don't know. Again, I'll have to finish FOTJ in order to contribute to that discussion more.

 

But again, you have to look at the galaxy's relationship to the Force. The reason having Dark Side present in the galaxy is a bad idea is obvious. The Dark Side and it's followers seek to destroy any servants of the Light. It's always been that way. There were only two Sith at a time for the longest time and they had one goal in mind: destroy the Jedi Order. And they succeded. That's pretty much why you should only have Light in the galaxy, because the Dark will always keep disturbing the peace.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Aurbere

[AlyxDinas]

I hate "educational" threads. They tend to be egotism. So let me ironically remind people that Light and Dark are, from what we know of the cosmology of Star Wars, two necessarily existing forces tied to a singular, cosmologically binding energy.

 

People make take that for whatever they will.

 

 

So again I ask, do you think an equal number of Sith and Jedi is a good thing?

 

Balance of the Force has nothing to do with numbers, you are right. Sidious and Plagueis literally engaged in a ritual which unhinged the cosmic balance of the Force towards darkness. This is one of the reasons that the Jedi's ability to use to Force clearly is diminished in the prequels. Ending the Banite Sith literally reverts and undoes this change.

Edited August 15, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Aurbere]

I hate "educational" threads. They tend to be egotism. So let me ironically remind people that Light and Dark are, from what we know of the cosmology of Star Wars, two necessarily existing forces tied to a singular, cosmologically binding energy.

 

People make take that for whatever they will.

 

I would like to answer that, but I'm sounding like a broken record now. So I'll let Rayla or Walsh reply to you.

[AlyxDinas]

I would like to answer that, but I'm sounding like a broken record now.

 

Let's leave Walsh away from this.

 

The only objection you could have to that statement would be if you think that I'm using it as an excuse for people to use whatever Force powers they want. I'm not. I'm saying that they are cosmologically necessary in the sense that life and death are. Or Yin and Yang. Because they are the pieces that comprise a force upon which existence itself is contingent.

 

I'll dig out my old Dark Empire sourcebook to give you more context in a moment:

 

The Light is positive. It is intimately bound in the essence of living things; it is peace, harmony and knowledge. The Light Side springs from the great pattern of existence It draw strength from diversity and tolerance. It is also inherently communal in nature, thriving on cooperation. Those emotions that enhance the existence of the whole from from it and tap into its great reserves of strength and peace...Above all, it seeks harmony and perfection.

 

The Dark Side, in comparison, is the force of entropy and destruction. Chaos and rage feed it and are the sources of its power. The Dark Side is a part of nature-it is not inherently evil but evil comes from its irrationality, its intolerance and its lack of control. Bestial and predatory, domination is its goal.

 

....

 

The Light and Dark side manifest themselves in the way they are used. They are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark side and the Light side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance...

 

Dark Empire Sourcebook, page 61.

 

Basically, they're cosmologically necessary entities that comprise the total and complete entity of the Force. Evil springs from the Dark side because of it's seductive nature and association with entropy and the way in which individuals choose to give themselves to it and only it.. But the Dark side itself is a natural force because it governs things such a death. Conversely, the Light side is intimately bound up in living things. Governs the positive and is equally natural and necessary.

Edited August 15, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Aurbere]

The only objection you could have to that statement would be if you think that I'm using it as an excuse for people to use whatever Force powers they want. I'm not. I'm saying that they are cosmologically necessary in the sense that life and death are. Or Yin and Yang. Because they are the pieces that comprise a force upon which existence itself is contingent.

 

I'll dig out my old Dark Empire sourcebook to give you more context in a moment.

 

Ummm... no. That's not even close to what I could counter with. If you want to think that Light and Dark co-exist in the Force, fine, but they cannot co-exist together in the galaxy. The servants of the Dark Side, otherwise known as the Sith, will always seek the destruction of the Jedi Order. That was the singular goal of the Banite Sith. A goal that persisted for thousands of years. If Light and Dark were meant to co-exist together, why are the Sith so hostile? It's because that is the nature of the Dark Side. Death and destruction are the purposes of the Dark Side. And whatever is not destroyed is corrupted. If the Dark Side was left in control for an extended period of time, there would be no hope for the true Force to prevail. The rebellion was almost destroyed if not for Luke Skywalker. Imagine if the rebels failed. Once the Dark Side is in control, it will never let go. The Dark Side could never co-exist with the true Force because of the Dark Side's true nature.

[AlyxDinas]

You're making a category mistake. You're confusing "The Dark side" for "Sith". The Dark side's an energy field. It has no agenda any more than a flowing river actually chooses to fork to the left instead of the right. The people using it are the people with the agendas. The Force itself and all it's components? They're not really sentient things. At least not as you as I understand the concept.

 

Besides, when you say " Death and destruction are the purposes of the Dark Side.", you literally telling me why the Dark side exists. Read anything about Taoism for thirty minutes and the concept of a mutual whole and you'll get there.

Edited August 15, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Aurbere]

 

 

Dark Empire Sourcebook, page 61.

 

Basically, they're cosmologically necessary entities that comprise the total and complete entity of the Force. Evil springs from the Dark side because of it's seductive nature and association with entropy. But the Dark side itself is a natural force because it governs things such a death. Conversely, the Light side is intimately bound up in living things. Governs the positive and is equally natural and necessary.

 

See now, that's actually wrong. While death is natural, what is caused by the Dark Side is unnatural. The physical degredation of all things natural just after being touched by the Dark Side is not natural. Palpatine was a nexus of the Dark Side. His mere presence drained the life out of the weak willed. That is not natural.

 

I do not know if the sourcebook is canon now. It has been a while since DE, and you know how Lucas is with changing things. I'll do some research on it later.

[Aurbere]

You're making a category mistake. You're confusing "The Dark side" for "People who use it to dominate others."

 

Besides, when you say " Death and destruction are the purposes of the Dark Side.", you literally telling me why the Dark side exists. Read anything about Taoism for thirty minutes and the concept of a mutual whole and you'll get there.

 

But the Force isn't based on taoism. The Force comes from many different beliefs. Many of which contradict eachother. But they each have one thing in common. Every belief that the Force is based off of strives for peace with oneself and with the world.

[AlyxDinas]

I'll do some research on it later.

 

You don't need to. There is literally nothing you will find that I cannot provide sourced argumentation for. What is done with the Dark side is unnatural because the individual is calling upon it's power unnaturally. The issue is the conduit, not the source. At least not entirely. The source is corrupting, to be sure. But neither entity exists without one another (metaphorically, we'll just say that the existence of light means that there is the existence of something that is "not light", ie. darkness). Specifically, they both exist in an intertwined state because they comprise the Force itself, an entity upon which existence is necessarily contingent. Understand that last sentence. It's the important one.

 

The Force is life. In all aspects, positive and negative. Without it, there is no life. And without both sides, it does not exist. Put in a proof:

 

A. The Light side and the Dark side exist.

B. The Force exists.

C. All life in the galaxy is contingent on the Force's existence.

D. The Force cannot exist without the Light side and the Dark side.

 

∴ The existence of the Force is dependent on the existence of the Light and Dark sides. And so to, is all life.

 

But the Force isn't based on taoism.

 

Not entirely, no. But understanding Taoism will certainly grant you better context for understanding what we have been told about the Force. The Force strives for harmony and piece. This means balance. Balance does not mean eradicating a negative force but reconciling it. We can point to the moment that Sidious and his master literally threw it out of balance. They didn't suddenly add evil where before there was none. The Dark side was already there. What they did was unnaturally and artificially make it dominant. Therefore, we know a few things already from this information (information from this year, January to be exact):

 

We know that the Force existed. We know that it had two sides. We know these two sides were in harmony with each other. And we know all of this because one side was brought out of the cosmological balance that it was in.

 

The first three premises follow from the last, actually. You can affect something that isn't there and you can't unbalance something that isn't balanced to begin with.

Edited August 15, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Aurbere]

You don't need to. There is literally nothing you will find that I cannot provide sourced argumentation for. What is done with the Dark side is unnatural because the individual is calling upon it's power unnaturally. The issue is the conduit, not the source. At least not entirely. The source is corrupting, to be sure. But neither entity exists without one another (metaphorically, we'll just say that the existence of light means that there is the existence of something that is "not light", ie. darkness). Specifically, they both exist in an intertwined state because they comprise the Force itself, an entity upon which existence is necessarily contingent. Understand that last sentence. It's the important one.

 

The Force is life. In all aspects, positive and negative. Without it, there is no life. And without both sides, it does not exist.

 

 

 

Not entirely, no. But understanding Taoism will certainly grant you better context for understanding what we are being told about the Force. The Force strives for harmony and piece. This means balance. Balance does not mean eradicating a negative force but reconciling it. We can point to the moment that Sidious and his master literally threw it out of balance. They didn't suddenly add evil where before there was none. The Dark side was already there. What they did was unnaturally and artificially make it dominant. Therefore, we know a few things already from this information (information from this year, January to be exact).

 

We know that the Force existed. We know that it had two sides. We know these two sides were in harmony with each other. And we know all of this because one side was brought out of the cosmological balance that it was in.

 

Your theories make sense, but I'm not qualified to say that they are not true. All I can do is express my opinion with my knowledge of the Force. I believe that the Force is just Light. Striving for peace and tranquility. I believe that the Dark Side disrupts that peace because that seems to be the nature of it. I have never read about a Sith who did not want to destroy something. But therein lies the problem. Maybe the Dark Side is a part of the Force, but the Sith are the ones who are unnatural. Or, maybe the Dark Side is separate from the Force. If GL or LA came out and made an official statement on this then we would no, but for mow we just have to believe in one thing or another.

 

One question, though. If the Dark Side is natural and Palpatine was unnatural with it, how come he is the embodiment of the Dark Side? After becoming reborn, he was immensely more powerful with the Dark Side. He was a nexus of Dark Side energy. And everything he did with those energies was unnatural. If the Dark Side powers are unnatural, how come the Dark Side is a part of nature?

Edited August 15, 2012 by Aurbere

[AlyxDinas]

I believe that the Force is just Light. Striving for peace and tranquility.

 

All you done is tell us what the Light side governs. Which we already knew. But logic alone dictates that your first statement is not sound. The Force is an entity that requires balance. If it is comprised of only on thing, what is it balancing?

 

I believe that the Dark Side disrupts that peace because that seems to be the nature of it.

 

It is. It's a force which governs hate, rage, and other negatives. But those things are natural. The Dark side itself does nothing. It merely embodies negative traits found in nature. It's not like Satan. It doesn't have a voice and it doesn't pick and choose who to damn. Certain individuals flock to it because of who they are. Something in them calls it to them. Despair, anger, fear. A lust for power.

 

I have never read about a Sith who did not want to destroy something.

 

This says something about the individual more than the power they are using. To an extent. Remember, evil springs from the Dark side and is manifest is the actions of the individual and how they are using the Force. That is to say, calling on the dark side is always a bad thing (regardless of intent, for that matter) because the very action of using the dark side is not natural.

 

Maybe the Dark Side is a part of the Force, but the Sith are the ones who are unnatural. Or, maybe the Dark Side is separate from the Force.

 

We know the latter is not true if only because of the etymology. It is the Dark side of the Force. Your first sentence comes closest to grasping the reality. The Dark side exists as a natural force. But its usage? The siphoning of that power away from it's cosmic role is a form of subjugation. This is why using the Dark side is unnatural whereas using the Light side is not. In the first case, the agent is unnaturally seizing cosmic power for their own use and benefit. In the second, the agent is ceding control and letting the Force flow through them.

 

One question, though. If the Dark Side is natural and Palpatine was unnatural with it, how come he is the embodiment of the Dark Side? After becoming reborn, he was immensely more powerful with the Dark Side. He was a nexus of Dark Side energy. And everything he did with those energies was unnatural.

 

To answer your question in the most basic terms, it's because he was evil. The Dark side itself is not inherently evil. It merely exists the same way that gravity does. But evil springs from it because of the things that it governs. And Palpatine is, for lack of a better term, the embodiment of the Dark side because he is doing such unnatural things with it and to do those things, he has to uses the forces and emotions that the Dark side represents. And his control over the Dark side is a reflection of his own capacity for hate and evil.

 

As a side note: he's not really a literal avatar of the Dark side. The Dark side just swirls about him like a maelstrom because he's that evil. And not only evil but deliberately so. He chooses it.

 

To somewhat illustrate this point: you'll note that using the Force to extent one's life is generally something that is of the Dark side. And that is because you are literally subjugating the power that controls death and telling it what to do. That's the very definition of unnatural. Palpatine is what he is because every waking second of his existence, he is upsetting the natural order. Particularly after his death and during his return.

 

If the Dark Side powers are unnatural, how come the Dark Side is a part of nature?

 

Because it is the power which governs certain necessary forces within nature. Entropy and death are not simply "bad things". They are necessarily existing bad things. Death has to exist. Literally, without it, the concept of life has no meaning. Entropy has to exist. The Dark side is natural and exists in nature because it is needed to embody these things within the Force.

Edited August 15, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Aurbere]

All you done is tell us what the Light side governs. Which we already knew. But logic alone dictates that your first statement is not sound. The Force is an entity that requires balance. If it is comprised of only on thing, what is it balancing?

 

 

 

It is. It's a force which governs hate, rage, and other negatives. But those things are natural. The Dark side itself does nothing. It merely embodies negative traits found in nature. It's not like Satan. It doesn't have a voice and it doesn't pick and choose who to damn. Certain individuals flock to it because of who they are. Something in them calls it to them. Despair, anger, fear. A lust for power.

 

 

 

This says something about the individual more than the power they are using. To an extent. Remember, evil springs from the Dark side and is manifest is the actions of the individual and how they are using the Force. That is to say, calling on the dark side is always a bad thing (regardless of intent, for that matter) because the very action of using the dark side is not natural.

 

 

 

We know the latter is not true if only because of the etymology. It is the Dark side of the Force. Your first sentence comes closest to grasping the reality. The Dark side exists as a natural force. But its usage? The siphoning of that power away from it's cosmic role is a form of subjugation. This is why using the Dark side is unnatural whereas using the Light side is not. In the first case, the agent is unnaturally seizing cosmic power for their own use and benefit. In the second, the agent is ceding control and letting the Force flow through them.

 

 

 

To answer your question in the most basic terms, it's because he was evil. The Dark side itself is not inherently evil. It merely exists the same way that gravity does. But evil springs from it because of the things that it governs. And Palpatine is, for lack of a better term, the embodiment of the Dark side because he is doing such unnatural things with it and to do those things, he has to uses the forces and emotions that the Dark side represents. And his control over the Dark side is a reflection of his own capacity for hate and evil.

 

As a side note: he's not really a literal avatar of the Dark side. The Dark side just swirls about him like a maelstrom because he's that evil. And not only evil but deliberately so. He chooses it.

 

To somewhat illustrate this point: you'll note that using the Force to extent one's life is generally something that is of the Dark side. And that is because you are literally subjugating the power that controls death and telling it what to do. That's the very definition of unnatural. Palpatine is what he is because every waking second of his existence, he is upsetting the natural order. Particularly after his death and during his return.

 

 

 

Because it is the power which governs certain necessary forces within nature. Entropy and death are not simply "bad things". They are necessarily existing bad things. Death has to exist. Literally, without it, the concept of life has no meaning. Entropy has to exist. The Dark side is natural and exists in nature because it is needed to embody these things within the Force.

 

Ok, then. Here's another question. How come, if Light and Dark are required to exist for balance, when Palpatine died the Force was brought back into balance. If the Force is Light and Dark as you say, how come when the last bad guy dies, the Force is in balance? That right there kinda trumps your theory, imo.

[grandmthethird]

Ok, then. Here's another question. How come, if Light and Dark are required to exist for balance, when Palpatine died the Force was brought back into balance. If the Force is Light and Dark as you say, how come when the last bad guy dies, the Force is in balance? That right there kinda trumps your theory, imo.

 

i don't believe the force needs humans/aliens for anything. the force just exists, both sides of it. if you take away all the jedi and sith, the force would still be swirling around, just being

[Aurbere]

OK. Let's look at balance from another perspective. The prophecy of the Chosen One says that the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force. I think Lucas said that this was acheived when Palpatine died. Which leads me to believe that the Force was out of balance when Palpatine died. That's what it has always been. Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was an unnecessary detour on his spiritual journey. A journey that was meant to bring balance to the Force. That was Anakin's destiny and he fulfilled it in Return of the Jedi. It just took a really long time.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Ok, then. Here's another question. How come, if Light and Dark are required to exist for balance, when Palpatine died the Force was brought back into balance. If the Force is Light and Dark as you say, how come when the last bad guy dies, the Force is in balance? That right there kinda trumps your theory, imo.

 

I can field this one...

 

Using the Dark Side is unnatural and constant use of the Dark Side in the manner that Banite Sith did "concentrated" the Dark Side in a way, it was feeding the Dark Side, making the Dark Side more powerful and suppressing the Light Side (or simply the Force if you prefer) thus it was upsetting the balance.

 

The Force could care less if there were a million Jedi and one Sith... Balance isn't a numbers game... But when one side is suppressed and the other is growing stronger... Balance gets thrown off kilter.

 

The Jedi don't "concentrate" the Light Side nor do they actually suppress the Dark Side (as in make the Dark Side itself weaker) they simply don't use the Dark Side and they seek to stop others from using it. This doesn't make the Light Side stronger however nor the Dark Side weaker.

[grandmthethird]

OK. Let's look at balance from another perspective. The prophecy of the Chosen One says that the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force. I think Lucas said that this was acheived when Palpatine died. Which leads me to believe that the Force was out of balance when Palpatine died. That's what it has always been. Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was an unnecessary detour on his spiritual journey. A journey that was meant to bring balance to the Force. That was Anakin's destiny and he fulfilled it in Return of the Jedi. It just took a really long time.

 

han solo claimed the falcon could do the kessel run in 12 parsecs. in a new hope. this was terrible writing, as we all know a parsec is a measure of distance and not a measure of speed. but some clever writing by the name of timothy zahn cleared this mess up when in the thrawn trilogy he told us han managed to to do this by going close to a black hole and reducing the distance he had to travel

 

GL and the chosen one, another case of bad writing, a term that has never been fully explained and has spawned many theory's of what was really meant by bringing balance to the force. but keep reading FOTJ and i think it is finally explained what anakins role of the chosen one was sposed to be

 

P.S. i may have been a bit harsh about GL and bad writing when it comes to the chosen one. i believe his original idea was to leave the term ambiguously hanging to leave the audience with a talking point. which would have been fine if star wars wasn't an ever expanding franchise.

[Aurbere]

I can field this one...

 

Using the Dark Side is unnatural and constant use of the Dark Side in the manner that Banite Sith did "concentrated" the Dark Side in a way, it was feeding the Dark Side, making the Dark Side more powerful and suppressing the Light Side (or simply the Force if you prefer) thus it was upsetting the balance.

 

The Force could care less if there were a million Jedi and one Sith... Balance isn't a numbers game... But when one side is suppressed and the other is growing stronger... Balance gets thrown off kilter.

 

The Jedi don't "concentrate" the Light Side nor do they actually suppress the Dark Side (as in make the Dark Side itself weaker) they simply don't use the Dark Side and they seek to stop others from using it. This doesn't make the Light Side stronger however nor the Dark Side weaker.

 

So does that mean that the Sith, specifically Palpatine, threw the Force out of balance and that his death brought it in balance?

[ProfessorWalsh]

So does that mean that the Sith, specifically Palpatine, threw the Force out of balance and that his death brought it in balance?

 

Yes. That is exactly what it means.

[Dartanel]

i don't believe the force needs humans/aliens for anything. the force just exists, both sides of it. if you take away all the jedi and sith, the force would still be swirling around, just being

 

The force is 'An energy field, created by all living things'

The force is, in essence, a creature, and every living thing in the Galaxy is just one of its cells.

Force sensitives represent a combination of the Force's Nervous and Immune systems. Without them the Force would devolve into an inert mass.

 

That said. Emotions, even negative ones, are perfectly natural and a part of the Force. The difference between light and dark are whose emotions. A Dark Side force sensitive becomes so not through hate or fear, but the underlying selfishness those imply. The transition from light side to dark occurs when a person puts their own concerns over the Force's to the point where they stop channeling the Force, and instead start stealing from it.

 

Dark side energy is the rotten, corrupted Force that results from this parasitic transfer. To the Force, it's a toxic pus. Like any living creature, a state of balance is a state of health, which means a state free of this corruption.

[Aurbere]

Yes. That is exactly what it means.

 

So based on what you have said, the Sith seem to oppress the "Light Side" through their use of the Dark Side. And since Jedi don't oppress the Dark Side through their usage of the Light Side, that leads me to believe that in order for balance to be achieved one of two things need to happen.

 

1. The Sith go hide somewhere and never show their faces again(unlikely) and to never use their Dark Side powers

2. The Sith have to be destroyed.

 

That's what I think, anyway. I don't see the Sith co-exiting with the Jedi. You'd have an easier time making friends with Hannibal Lecter.

[ProfessorWalsh]

So based on what you have said, the Sith seem to oppress the "Light Side" through their use of the Dark Side. And since Jedi don't oppress the Dark Side through their usage of the Light Side, that leads me to believe that in order for balance to be achieved one of two things need to happen.

 

1. The Sith go hide somewhere and never show their faces again(unlikely) and to never use their Dark Side powers

2. The Sith have to be destroyed.

 

That's what I think, anyway. I don't see the Sith co-exiting with the Jedi. You'd have an easier time making friends with Hannibal Lecter.

 

You are more or less correct. Not all Sith did this as much as the Baneite Sith, but yes, there can be no coexistence with the Sith. The Sith Order must be destroyed to maintain balance. This doesn't mean that the Sith have to be killed either... If they can be turned then that is still one less Sith.

[Aurbere]

You are more or less correct. Not all Sith did this as much as the Baneite Sith, but yes, there can be no coexistence with the Sith. The Sith Order must be destroyed to maintain balance. This doesn't mean that the Sith have to be killed either... If they can be turned then that is still one less Sith.

 

So, it seems that balance can only be maintained as long as there are no servants of the Dark Side.

 

But what about Dark Side cults? Do you just leave them alone, or should they be removed as well?

[AlyxDinas]

I can field this one...

 

Using the Dark Side is unnatural and constant use of the Dark Side in the manner that Banite Sith did "concentrated" the Dark Side in a way, it was feeding the Dark Side, making the Dark Side more powerful and suppressing the Light Side (or simply the Force if you prefer) thus it was upsetting the balance.

 

The Force could care less if there were a million Jedi and one Sith... Balance isn't a numbers game... But when one side is suppressed and the other is growing stronger... Balance gets thrown off kilter.

 

The Jedi don't "concentrate" the Light Side nor do they actually suppress the Dark Side (as in make the Dark Side itself weaker) they simply don't use the Dark Side and they seek to stop others from using it. This doesn't make the Light Side stronger however nor the Dark Side weaker.

 

Indeed, Walsh actually covers it well here. I'd only add that there's also the added component that the Banite line enacted a ritual that was so strong that it literally skewed the balance of the Force. Sidious an Plagueis do this roughly around 48 BBY, if I recall correctly, as a lead up to their execution of the Grand Plan. Imagine a cosmic scale. Both side has equal weight. Essentially, what they did was put extra weight on the side that benefited them.

 

Thus, their usage of the Force was so against nature and they quite literally upended the galaxy's cosmology that their removal was needed to fix things. Like excising a tumor from a healthy organ.

 

So you're almost there, Aurbere. When you say:

 

So, it seems that balance can only be maintained as long as there are no servants of the Dark Side.

 

This is not quite the case though. Plenty of dark side cults and group exists that the Jedi allow to exist. Because they do nothing to upset the fundamental nature of the cosmos. The Sith? Well, that's a different story. And even then, any issues of balance have always been more attributable to the Banite line than any other. For instance, we have no indication ever than a group like the Lost Tribe or even the One Sith tip the balance in any majorly appreciable way comparable to what Bane's line did.

Edited October 1, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[smartalectwo]

How does this idea of the Dark Side being something natural and necessary jive with its apparent 'stickiness' and domination of people's destinies? I'd long associated the Dark Side with 'negative karma', or with negative emotions that you have to clear from your chakras - but in a galactic sense.

 

Because it is the power which governs certain necessary forces within nature. Entropy and death are not simply "bad things". They are necessarily existing bad things. Death has to exist. Literally, without it, the concept of life has no meaning. Entropy has to exist. The Dark side is natural and exists in nature because it is needed to embody these things within the Force.

 

This doesn't quite seem right. Nowhere have I seen natural death associated with the Dark Side. In fact, the way death as portrayed in Star Wars, it's just the returning of energy to the Force - the idea of a cyclic transition of energy from one state to another. No-one seems to feel the Dark Side as a result of someone dying. 'There is no Death', as physics tells us. In terms of energy, there is no entropy. By contrast, the Dark Side seems to have nothing to do with life or its ending at all - only when death happens outside of 'the pattern', death associated with violent emotion or on a genuinely grand, unnatural scale.

Edited August 15, 2012 by smartalectwo

[EnsignSorrow]

Grandmthethird wasn't saying that balance was equal numbers of Jedi & Sith. Read the rest of that paragraph for context to that piece of text you singled out.

 

You are right. I missed the word 'don't', and then disregarded the rest of the post. >_<