Star Trek vs Star Wars (multiple scenarios)

[GarfieldJL]

Quite a few places actually.

 

Look. You are a Trek fanatic. No matter what I source, no matter what I say, you are going to twist it in some way. So I am just going to agree to disagree with you and cease further discussion with you. You go your way, I'll go mine.

 

Riiigghhtt....

 

Somehow I doubt you have a source, or if someone actually bothered to look at the source it would completely contradict your claims.

 

Not only that, there is actually something that we can use to compare both universes.

 

Scenario A: An Imperial Star Destroyer was waylaid for weeks after launching an attack on a certain mining operation, because it had to go so close to a star it caused all kinds of damage, I believe the incident was in the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zhan... The Star Destroyer had all of it's main power systems operational to start with.

 

Scenario B: USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D having lost it's warp drive and under attack by a Borg Ship, flees into a star's upper atmosphere. So we have a Galaxy Class ship with partial main power at best entering a star's upper atmosphere until the Borg ship had to break off. After staying in the star's atmosphere for (I think it was about half an hour, I could dig up the novelization of the 2 part episode), they then triggered a solar eruption that the Borg ship got caught in and was charbroiled. (Source: Descent Novel and Descent Part II) Before you start yelling about "special shielding," sorry but it was a software program no hardware was altered, it is called Metaphasic Shielding, but this isn't the only incident where the Enterprise had a close encounter with a star.

 

There is also the Episode "Relics," where the Enterprise didn't have main power and were stuck near an unstable star in the middle of a Dyson Sphere (they couldn't use metaphasic shielding in that instance. It is also the same episode where an antique starship managed to temporarily block a giant door from being closed, a door that would have easily crushed an Star Wars ship of the same size (and the antique wasn't exactly at 100% if you catch my meaning). The Enterprise suffered no real damage from that incident.

 

Based on similar scenarios (with the Star Trek ships not even having a handicap to top it off), the Star Trek ships perform better than an Imperial Star Destroyer. In other words 1 Galaxy Class Starship (without main power) is probably more than a match for an Imperial Star Destroyer (oh and I'm being charitable here, I could have brought up Klingon Birds of Prey and Shuttlecraft). If a Galaxy Class starship's shields are able to pull off things that an Imperial Star Destroyer's can't match, that translates to Star Trek Weaponary being more powerful as well (cause they have to be able to punch through those shields).

 

Oh did you know that a Federation Starship can go to warp in a gravity well (mass shadow), while an ISD can't jump to hyperspace.

 

More Extreme example:

 

RotJ: Death Star II oneshots a Mon Cal Cruiser...

 

ToS: (Episode: "The Doomsday Machine") USS Constellation suffers heavy damage from a planet killer (don't actually see that fight, but the fact it survived the brawl for Enterprise to find kinda speaks for itself).

 

USS Constellation was a Constitution Class Starship...

 

Based on these similar scenarios, it looks like all Star Wars has going for it is numbers and a hyperdrive they can't use because they have no star charts.

 

Well is ST they actualy do not have plasma beams of such magnificent power either... beam range is really small, they mostly end with pulse fire.

 

Compared to this...

everybody is ameteur.

 

Phasers have different settings, and normally you see them used for precision hits with minimal collateral damage... In space combat phasers are used almost like a cutting weapon, basic Star Fleet tactics are to take out an enemy's weapon systems without blowing up the enemy ship in the process so they do surgical hits instead of flashy and rather pointless pyrotechnics.

 

A photon torpedo's warhead is variable because they are only loaded with antimatter just before they are going to be used, so the examples that people have previously given were torpedoes that were not fueled to capacity so they didn't go overboard and kill their own away team (as seen in Star Trek V).

Edited August 12, 2012 by GarfieldJL

[PaerisKiran]

Fourthly, the only other easily directly comparable technology I can think of is robot intelligences. Data is one of a handful created by an eccentric genius. Conversely, C3P0 is one of millions of similar intelligences, and was assembled by a clever child. Therefore, the Galactic Republic's children are educated to the point that the cleverest of them are as capable in their idle tinkering as the smartest human dedicated to a given art in the Federation. It seems a little crazy, but think of this - today a child could build a catapult, a device which would have astonished most engineers in the bronze age. Time marches on.

 

What about the Doctor? (and Anakin certainly put the scrap components together... he would have never been able to create procesors, memory chips...)

 

And given some googling child could easily build Hiroshima-like nuclear bomb, only issue is getting weapon grade uranium of plutonium. But give that to him. (Truth be told most people who survived physics at high school are capable of producing a nuclear warhead if given material, thing is actualy pretty simple, getting things to build it isn´t)

 

Even Wesley Crusher had little problem of repairing Data from time to time.

[PaerisKiran]

Phasers have different settings, and normally you see them used for precision hits with minimal collateral damage... In space combat phasers are used almost like a cutting weapon, basic Star Fleet tactics are to take out an enemy's weapon systems without blowing up the enemy ship in the process so they do surgical hits instead of flashy and rather pointless pyrotechnics.

 

A photon torpedo's warhead is variable because they are only loaded with antimatter just before they are going to be used, so the examples that people have previously given were torpedoes that were not fueled to capacity so they didn't go overboard and kill their own away team (as seen in Star Trek V).

 

Phasers are nadion beams. Generaly those particles have ability to distrupt electric forces holding molecules together within target, extent roughly determined by power. (In stargate terms that would constitute something like matter-distruptors O´Neill built for Asgard... just with different setting like Dakara).

 

But it actualy seems easier to adapt shield against nadion beam, then to repel plasma beam.

 

Edit: but to be fair there are matter distruptors in Star wars too... Tenloss distruptor rifle for example (weapon is highly illegal, and it drain it´s powecell powercell effectively drained after you disintegrate one human with it. (and he isn´t in some metal armor)

Edited August 12, 2012 by PaerisKiran

[bionamaster]

I'd like to suggest an extra scenario: Romulans versus the Infinite Empire! May lead to some interesting situations. Anyway, if you ask me, the Infinite Empire would probably win due to Stasis and Mindtraps and all that, but the Romulans stand a chance when in Space with those cloaking devices.

[SmugglersLuck]

I like naval space battles so lets take a look at both factions' largest vessels.

 

The Empire has the Executor-class Star Dreadnought. According to the Anaxes War College System, the average classification for a Dreadnought is 5,000 meters +. The Executor-class is more than 19,000 meters long.

 

The Federation has the Galaxy-class starship. This ship is 643 meters long.

 

Now onto armaments and other details:

 

The Executor-class has 2,000 turbolaser cannons, 250 assault concussion missile tubes with 30 missiles each, 250 heavy ion cannons, 40 Phylon transport Q7 tractor beams projectors and 500 point-defense laser cannons. It normally contains a crew of about 279,144 and 1,590 gunners. It can hold up to 38,000 troops and has consumables that last up to 6 years.

 

The Galaxy-class has 12/14 phaser arrays, 2 torpedo launchers; 250 photon torpedoes, and antimatter mines. It has 42 decks and can hold up to 1,000 crew members, depending on assignment.

 

Too lazy to compare stats between the other ships. Someone else can do that.

 

In my opinion, the Empire has the superior fleet. Combine the Executor with a complement of Imperial-class Star Destroyers, Acclimator-class Frigates and dozen upon dozens of TIE squadrons and you've got an unstoppable force.

 

Sources used: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor-class_Star_Dreadnought

 

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class

 

Also, take a look at this: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

 

And the Blaster vs. Phaser argument, scroll down and read comments, specifically L-W : http://www.factpile.com/2159-type-2-star-trek-phaser-vs-star-wars-blaster/

[utio]

I love this quote

Other Combinations

 

What difference does it make? Since the film vs film and book vs book approaches both yield the same result, you can mix and match film vs book policies in any order you want (tech books for both, tech books for neither, tech books for ST but not for SW, tech books for SW but not for ST), and the result is the same.

 

Conclusions

 

In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.

 

Thats a good link, but sadly I'm pretty sure the trekkers/Trekkies are unable to accept what is plainly obvious lol.

[jarjarloves]

I love this quote

Other Combinations

 

What difference does it make? Since the film vs film and book vs book approaches both yield the same result, you can mix and match film vs book policies in any order you want (tech books for both, tech books for neither, tech books for ST but not for SW, tech books for SW but not for ST), and the result is the same.

 

Conclusions

 

In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.

 

Thats a good link, but sadly I'm pretty sure the trekkers/Trekkies are unable to accept what is plainly obvious lol.

 

ignoring the fact that the empire cant hit the broadside of a barn and the fact that star wars plasma weapons are useless against a magnetic field.

 

 

sorry empire hasnt a chance in hell even with their "numbers"

Edited August 12, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Aurbere]

ignoring the fact that the empire cant hit the broadside of a barn and the fact that star wars plasma weapons are useless against a magnetic field.

 

 

sorry empire hasnt a chance in hell even with their "numbers"

 

The Empire is only inaccurate when firing at main characters. Read any Thrawn novel and you'll see just how deadly a good fleet with the right commander can be.

[jarjarloves]

The Empire is only inaccurate when firing at main characters. Read any Thrawn novel and you'll see just how deadly a good fleet with the right commander can be.

 

I have and if you read it it was due to the whole "battle meditation" Of course this brings Star Wars canon into play. Remember what we see in the movies is how it really happens. If stormtrooper aim is horrible in the movies then it is always horrible no matter what a novel says.

 

Even then not a single Turbolaser would ever hit a star trek ship as all they need to do is project a magnetic field around their ship and they would be untouchable.

Edited August 12, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Aurbere]

I have and if you read it it was due to the whole "battle meditation" Of course this brings Star Wars canon into play. Remember what we see in the movies is how it really happens. If stormtrooper aim is horrible in the movies then it is always horrible no matter what a novel says.

 

Even then not a single Turbolaser would ever hit a star trek ship as all they need to do is project a magnetic field around their ship and they would be untouchable.

 

Well if they do use a magnetic field, wouldn't the laser impact the ship and reflect off like in the garbage masher? And how would they know to use a magnetic field?

[jarjarloves]

Well if they do use a magnetic field, wouldn't the laser impact the ship and reflect off like in the garbage masher? And how would they know to use a magnetic field?

 

it would never actually touch the ship. The Star Wars "lasers" are actually plasma based weapons. They are superheated plasma that is contained in a magnetic field. So all you have to do is have an equal magnetic field and the incoming laser blasts would never even touch you.

 

 

Some one earlier in the thread mentioned they could do it. I'm not a trek fan i've only seen a couple of their movies so I can't say but I remember someone mentioning in this thread or another one that always have a magnetic field around the ship for some reason.

[PaerisKiran]

Also, take a look at this: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

 

And the Blaster vs. Phaser argument, scroll down and read comments, specifically L-W : http://www.factpile.com/2159-type-2-star-trek-phaser-vs-star-wars-blaster/

 

Stardesytroyer.net is based on antiquated tech manuals which are effectively contradicted by everything shown in the movies and clone wars TV series... I can hardly imagine worse source of anything.

 

And what I would choose? thing that can rutinely disintegrate human target or something that sends a particle bolt toward target?

[Aurbere]

it would never actually touch the ship. The Star Wars "lasers" are actually plasma based weapons. They are superheated plasma that is contained in a magnetic field. So all you have to do is have an equal magnetic field and the incoming laser blasts would never even touch you.

 

 

Some one earlier in the thread mentioned they could do it. I'm not a trek fan i've only seen a couple of their movies so I can't say but I remember someone mentioning in this thread or another one that always have a magnetic field around the ship for some reason.

 

I know that turbolasers fire without plenty of force, so I suppose it would be up to ST to create the magnetic field capable of reflecting the plasma laser. If they don't, I assume the blast would be significantly weaker. So either way, a magnetic field could either save the trek ship or allow it to last slightly longer.

 

A note on the accuracy of SW ships. I'm guessing they don't teach you to be accurate because they think with enough guns, one blast is bound to hit eventually.

[jarjarloves]

I know that turbolasers fire without plenty of force, so I suppose it would be up to ST to create the magnetic field capable of reflecting the plasma laser. If they don't, I assume the blast would be significantly weaker. So either way, a magnetic field could either save the trek ship or allow it to last slightly longer.

 

A note on the accuracy of SW ships. I'm guessing they don't teach you to be accurate because they think with enough guns, one blast is bound to hit eventually.

 

it shouldn't be too hard to create a magnetic field capable of stopping and repelling it. I mean obviously they have to create one to fire the gun in the first place. But yes if it wasn't enough to stop it then it would slow it down significantly. Of course if they slow it down then it's not going to be hitting the ship with the same force. So who knows if it would even do any damage.

[Aurbere]

it shouldn't be too hard to create a magnetic field capable of stopping and repelling it. I mean obviously they have to create one to fire the gun in the first place. But yes if it wasn't enough to stop it then it would slow it down significantly. Of course if they slow it down then it's not going to be hitting the ship with the same force. So who knows if it would even do any damage.

 

If it does go through it then comes down to how strong the hull of the target ship would be. Which has been discussed in detail already so let's not get back into that argument.

[jarjarloves]

If it does go through it then comes down to how strong the hull of the target ship would be. Which has been discussed in detail already so let's not get back into that argument.

 

considering how weak Durasteel is I don't see how the Empire would even stand a chance.

[Lodril]

What about the Doctor? (and Anakin certainly put the scrap components together... he would have never been able to create procesors, memory chips...)

 

And given some googling child could easily build Hiroshima-like nuclear bomb, only issue is getting weapon grade uranium of plutonium. But give that to him. (Truth be told most people who survived physics at high school are capable of producing a nuclear warhead if given material, thing is actualy pretty simple, getting things to build it isn´t)

 

Even Wesley Crusher had little problem of repairing Data from time to time.

 

I doubt the guy who built Data produced each component by carving it from hand... but that's hardly the point. The Federation has one guy who can make a handful of the things, but they are mass produced in the Galactic Republic. Further, although not really elaborated on directly as far as I've seen, they've neatly skirted the traditional Skynet problems by designing droids that want to do their job - C3P0 is desperate to translate anything and offer up his services to do so, Artoo cannot stop tinkering with and trying to repair things, and other droids all seem similarly dedicated to their jobs. Data's fumbling around with emotions that emulate human thought is clearly an order of technological development below designing the same thing with useful psychologies to enjoy life as a slave race, and certainly a big step short of mass producing them so that almost everyone could afford to own more than one (look how many Owen Lars could afford!).

[GarfieldJL]

For all Star Wars fans claim we aren't facing facts, it's funny that they ignore their own canon sources, such as Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and the X-Wing series. An ISD doesn't stand a chance against a Galaxy Class starship, X-Wing book 4 "The Bacta War" kinda proves that.

 

All Federation ships generate magnetic fields btw, the low level static shields for instance, considering how fast the main computer is for a Galaxy Class, it is likely that the computer could adjust the shields to specificly deflect plasma weapons before the first shot is actually fired.

 

Phasers are nadion beams. Generaly those particles have ability to distrupt electric forces holding molecules together within target, extent roughly determined by power. (In stargate terms that would constitute something like matter-distruptors O´Neill built for Asgard... just with different setting like Dakara).

 

But it actualy seems easier to adapt shield against nadion beam, then to repel plasma beam.

 

Edit: but to be fair there are matter distruptors in Star wars too... Tenloss distruptor rifle for example (weapon is highly illegal, and it drain it´s powecell powercell effectively drained after you disintegrate one human with it. (and he isn´t in some metal armor)

 

You have a pretty faulty analysis and unfortunately for you, I actually do know something about Star Trek tech as well as Star Wars tech, aside from lightsabers (since it doesn't incinerate the person using it) and hyperdrives (which is actually partly superior to Warp Drive and partially inferior to Warp Drive), Star Trek has an overwhelming technology advantage.

 

I'm also going to point out the obvious, how can Empire counter a weapon that utilizes a subatomic particles that they can't even detect?!?! Star Wars sensors do not have the same abilities that Star Trek sensors have. Star Trek sensors can identify a plasma weapon easily, not only that it can tell you the elements used to generate the plasma, the total mass of the plasma is in each bolt, etc. Star Trek sensors can not only detect lifeforms, they can detect what species of lifeform (provided it is a known species), they can use their sensors to make sure they don't beam someone into a wall, the ceiling, or the floor.

 

Yes star wars has tons of droids like C3-P0, but does C3-P0 have the computing power of Data, nope. In fact the computers in Star Trek seem to be in a whole different league from Star Wars, and that's just the beginning.

 

While a Galaxy Class Starship has a crew of 1,000, it really can be operated by 1 person effectively even in combat conditions. The main computer is that advanced, you can't do the same thing with an ISD. To make matters worse, the computer cores on Federation ships are in a subspace field, meaning their processing rates exceed the speed of light. No Star Wars computer can match that. I haven't even dragged Exocomps into this yet, which are sentient robots, or worse the sentient nanites (they'd take one look at a Star Destroyer and consider it an all you can eat buffet, anyone hungry).

 

As I pointed out earlier, there are scenarios where SW ships and ST ships are having to deal with similar hostile environments, such as very close encounters with stars... Heck the vaunted Grand Admiral Thrawn wrecked a few Star Destroyers in which a Galaxy Class starship pulled off while operating on secondary power, the Galaxy class ship not only took minimal to no damage from the star, they managed to identify where to trigger a particle burst in order to cause a solar eruption to incinerate their attacker...

 

So we have the following:

 

Galaxy Class vs Imperial Star Destroyer:

Size: Imperial Star Destroyer (this is actually a disadvantage)

Sublight speed: Galaxy Class

Maneuverability: Galaxy Class

Shielding: Based on the similar situations with very different outcomes the advantage goes to the Galaxy Class.

Number of Weapons: Star Destroyer has more Turbolasers than a Galaxy Class has Phasers or Torpedos

Firepower: Galaxy Class, despite what Star Wars fans would like to believe, Star Wars ships operate on Fusion power or fission power, both types are totally out of their league when versing a ship that utiliizes a Matter/Antimatter Reaction as its primary power source.

Power Generation: Galaxy Class hands down, a Matter/Antimatter Reaction Chamber (warp core) produces significantly more power than a fusion reaction.

 

In summary we have a smaller ship with a substancially higher power output than its larger opponent. To make matters worse for the Imperial Star Destroyer, the smaller ship is more maneuverable, and Type X phaser arrays are kinda different from a Turbolaser. It is actually a series of interconnected emitters, it is both turret and weapon all in one. Photon Torpedos have antimatter warheads, which totally outclass proton torpedos which are at best H-Bombs, but most likely are conventional weapons or fission bombs.

 

From X-Wing, Bacta War a volley of 48 proton torpedos (a squadron in Star Wars is 12 fighters) can either drain or knock out shielding on a Star Destroyer. Now for those of you Star Wars fans that claim that your weapons are stronger you're about to get schooled.

 

A Galaxy Class Starship has 2 photon torpedo launchers that can fire torpedos without initiating saucer seperation, 3 torpedo launchers if in seperated flight mode. Unlike proton torpedos which utilize conventional, fission, or at best fusion reaction for explosion, the larger photon torpedo utilizes something far more powerful a matter/antimatter reaction, the destructive potential using REAL LIFE PHYSICS is on an entirely different level.

 

1. 10 photon torpedos can be fired at a time per launcher.

2. Photon Torpedo velocity = v1 + 0.75v1/c, in full combat we can see a Galaxy class maneuvering at half the speed of light if needed (normal impulse speed is .25c (25% the speed of light)... Turbolaser Batteries would have a rather hard time even targetting the opposing starship let alone hitting the torpedos (oh nearly forgot to mention that these weapons can be fired while at Warp too so they can even be approaching the ISD at speeds exceeding the speed of light).

3. Photon Torpedos at substancially larger than proton torpedos and even to be generous to Star Wars and saying that a photon torpedo's max destructive potential is = proton torpedo x 10^2... You kinda see the problem for the Imperial Star destroyer.

 

If 48 fission or fusion based munitions can nearly knock down shielding on a Star Destroyer, consider how much destructive potential 10 photon torpedos that each pack 100x the destructive power of 1 proton torpedo.

 

Ten photon torpedos would = 1,000 proton torpedos, and I'm being generous here, cause an antimatter reaction makes atomic bombs look like soap bubbles popping and the photon torpedo has a larger warhead than the proton torpedo.

 

Considering the fact the Galaxy Class could just lob the torpedos at the Star Destroy without even dropping to sublight speeds, the ISD wouldn't even realize they were being attacked until the torpedos hit their ship.

 

Hell forget versing an Imperial Star Destroyer, a Galaxy Class seems at the very least an actual threat to a Super Star Destroyer (since it can't take a 1000 proton torpedo salvo without taking serious damage also seen in Bacta War). Oh and the Galaxy Class isn't as powerful as a Sovereign Class which carries the more powerful quantum torpedo, the Defiant is also at least as powerful as a Galaxy Class (since it is an actual combat ship), the Prometheus Class is also more powerful than a Galaxy (and has MVAM to top that off (3 ships in 1)).

 

You guys need to remember that the Galaxy Class was built to be able to fight a ship that was at least double its size and used an artificial black hole as its power source (which I think that kind of power source is used in Star Gate SG 1, and Atlantis), looks like Star Trek is about an even match against ships seen in Star Gate.

Edited August 13, 2012 by GarfieldJL

[Astarica]

I think the whole argument about technology is pointless especially given the technology in Star Trek is no way meant to be even remotely rigorous. I saw people refer to script in Star Trek where they'd put things like 'here we need to tech the tech to solve the problem' and Star Trek literally invents technology as needed to fit the plot. At any rate if you want to be serious about it, both Star Wars and Star Trek have a far inferior infantry than even 21th century Earth since both phasers and blasters bolts apparently travel really slow and can be deflected/avoided and yet human beings in either universes aren't any more resilient than the ones in real life. That is, if you point a gun and shoot at someone in Star Wars/Star Trek and get a direct hit they'll probably die, so the fact that a phaser or a blaster bolt could do a million times more damage (but never actually does) than a handgun is irrelevent because the target will die to a well aimed gunshot, and we know guns projectiles are way faster than either phasers or blaster bolts (nobody can dodge bullets in real life, while at least in Star Wars even normal people could block a blaster bolt with a lightsaber. Jedis/Siths do it easier because they can sense it before it happens via the Force but it's definitely doable by normal people).

 

As someone pointed out the Star Wars universe has existed for a long time with space traveling technology, while Star Trek civilization is relatively new to this thing. Not counting any 'tech the tech' technologies Star Wars is quite comfortably ahead, and Star Wars has its own share of 'magic' technologies like Mag Pulse or the Quantum Armor plating on the Sun Crusher that just sort of works by magic. Even something like the World Devastator pretty much just works by magic and there's no reason to believe Star Trek's magic tech is any better than Star Wars' magic tech.

 

And even if you equalize all technology (even though Star Wars has a huge edge here not counting magic, and if you want to count magic, the Force kind of trumps any magic tech) you still can't get around the fact that people in Star Wars are actually used to waging war on the galactic scale while Star Trek still thinks a planet is the biggest unit of territory that a battle may involve. Unless the fight occured right after a major Star Wars war (e.g. Yuuzhan Vong invasion), Star Wars guy are just way more experienced at doing this kind of stuff compared to Star Trek.

 

Honestly a lot of you arguing about tech reminds me of the guy trying to explain why a Protoss Dragoon in Starcraft which fires ANTIMATTER BOLTS which doesn't do enough damage to kill a Marine. You can talk all you want about how antimatter weapon is supposed to annihilate everything but in the end it's just something that does 16+2(tech level) damage and it sure didn't help the Protoss very much against the Zergs.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Astarica

[jarjarloves]

interesting thought. You mentioned that Star Wars used fusion reactors. I had completely forgot about this deleted scene

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJUVHSBy9JM

 

here we see Grevios ship with large liquid fuel tanks.

[GarfieldJL]

I think the whole argument about technology is pointless especially given the technology in Star Trek is no way meant to be even remotely rigorous. I saw people refer to script in Star Trek where they'd put things like 'here we need to tech the tech to solve the problem' and Star Trek literally invents technology as needed to fit the plot. At any rate if you want to be serious about it, both Star Wars and Star Trek have a far inferior infantry than even 21th century Earth since both phasers and blasters bolts apparently travel really slow and can be deflected/avoided and yet human beings in either universes aren't any more resilient than the ones in real life. That is, if you point a gun and shoot at someone in Star Wars/Star Trek and get a direct hit they'll probably die, so the fact that a phaser or a blaster bolt could do a million times more damage (but never actually does) than a handgun is irrelevent because the target will die to a well aimed gunshot, and we know guns projectiles are way faster than either phasers or blaster bolts (nobody can dodge bullets in real life, while at least in Star Wars even normal people could block a blaster bolt with a lightsaber. Jedis/Siths do it easier because they can sense it before it happens via the Force but it's definitely doable by normal people).

 

As someone pointed out the Star Wars universe has existed for a long time with space traveling technology, while Star Trek civilization is relatively new to this thing. Not counting any 'tech the tech' technologies Star Wars is quite comfortably ahead, and Star Wars has its own share of 'magic' technologies like Mag Pulse or the Quantum Armor plating on the Sun Crusher that just sort of works by magic. Even something like the World Devastator pretty much just works by magic and there's no reason to believe Star Trek's magic tech is any better than Star Wars' magic tech.

 

And even if you equalize all technology (even though Star Wars has a huge edge here not counting magic, and if you want to count magic, the Force kind of trumps any magic tech) you still can't get around the fact that people in Star Wars are actually used to waging war on the galactic scale while Star Trek still thinks a planet is the biggest unit of territory that a battle may involve. Unless the fight occured right after a major Star Wars war (e.g. Yuuzhan Vong invasion), Star Wars guy are just way more experienced at doing this kind of stuff compared to Star Trek.

 

Honestly a lot of you arguing about tech reminds me of the guy trying to explain why a Protoss Dragoon in Starcraft which fires ANTIMATTER BOLTS which doesn't do enough damage to kill a Marine. You can talk all you want about how antimatter weapon is supposed to annihilate everything but in the end it's just something that does 16+2(tech level) damage and it sure didn't help the Protoss very much against the Zergs.

 

You want to drag the Force into this be my guest, but I don't think Emperor Palpatine could take on the Q Continuum...

 

I tracked down similar scenarios, and the Trek ship did better by far than the ship star wars fans say would destroy the Trek ship, what's worse for the Star Wars fans is the Star Trek ship did better than the ISD even with a handicap.

 

Similar scenarios, and the Trek ship comes out on top easily.

 

Btw, as far as troop battles, you got stormtroopers and AT-AT, we got Horta.

Horta are an intelligent Silicon Based lifeform that tunnels through rock like we walk on ground or a fish swims through water. They have a highly corrosive acid that eats through rock and other minerals (which they eat). I don't think a hand blaster could even hurt a Horta, and an AT-AT, would be an all you can eat buffet to them.

[Astarica]

You want to drag the Force into this be my guest, but I don't think Emperor Palpatine could take on the Q Continuum...

 

I tracked down similar scenarios, and the Trek ship did better by far than the ship star wars fans say would destroy the Trek ship, what's worse for the Star Wars fans is the Star Trek ship did better than the ISD even with a handicap.

 

Similar scenarios, and the Trek ship comes out on top easily.

 

Btw, as far as troop battles, you got stormtroopers and AT-AT, we got Horta.

Horta are an intelligent Silicon Based lifeform that tunnels through rock like we walk on ground or a fish swims through water. They have a highly corrosive acid that eats through rock and other minerals (which they eat). I don't think a hand blaster could even hurt a Horta, and an AT-AT, would be an all you can eat buffet to them.

 

I don't get why Trek guys think Q is some kind of trump card. The Q Continuum doesn't particularly favor any race at least to the point where they'd openly intervene against a vastly superior foe. Otherwise why is the Borg (or any other race) a threat since a Q can just make the Borg cease to exist? At best the Q's are neutral and at worst they could be manipulated by the Sith since they really have this tendency to give random guys super powers just to see what could happen. The Q might be all powerful but they're definitely not all-knowing, and that'd play rather well into the strength of any Sith-dominant society. By Sith-dominant I mean the culture, not Force itself. That is, in the Sith Empire, even if there's no Force at all they'd still be plotting behind each other's back because that's what they do and the society encourages this kind of behavior.

 

I see this happens all the time in the 'my universe versus yours'. The fact that your universe says nobody can possibly beat you doesn't mean the other universe has to abide by that especially since they can say exactly the said thing. You try to avoid arguing which nonsensical technology that's actually strictly worse than a gun is supposed to be better and just assume they serve as the equivalent of the future gun or you'd never even get anywhere. Star Wars has the Noghri (who required Darth Vader to personally stop them), Wookies, and plenty of other 'stupidly powerful' races. Again it'd be pointless to talk about which universe's more impossibly powerful whatever is actually that powerful. The only thing Star Wars doesn't have is Q but none of the Q intervene directly on the lesser being's behalf, or there would be no point for anyone to do anything in Star Trek when a Q can just do it all, so while Star Wars do not have any power to match that of Q, you can safely assume Q will still sit on the sidelines like they usually do. Anybody of Sith origin is probably more interesting for a Q to play with than the people of Star Trek.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Astarica

[GarfieldJL]

I don't get why Trek guys think Q is some kind of trump card. The Q Continuum doesn't particularly favor any race at least to the point where they'd openly intervene against a vastly superior foe. Otherwise why is the Borg (or any other race) a threat since a Q can just make the Borg cease to exist? At best the Q's are neutral and at worst they could be manipulated by the Sith since they really have this tendency to give random guys super powers just to see what could happen. The Q might be all powerful but they're definitely not all-knowing, and that'd play rather well into the strength of any Sith-dominant society. By Sith-dominant I mean the culture, not Force itself. That is, in the Sith Empire, even if there's no Force at all they'd still be plotting behind each other's back because that's what they do and the society encourages this kind of behavior.

 

I see this happens all the time in the 'my universe versus yours'. The fact that your universe says nobody can possibly beat you doesn't mean the other universe has to abide by that especially since they can say exactly the said thing. You try to avoid arguing which nonsensical technology that's actually strictly worse than a gun is supposed to be better and just assume they serve as the equivalent of the future gun or you'd never even get anywhere. Star Wars has the Noghri (who required Darth Vader to personally stop them), Wookies, and plenty of other 'stupidly powerful' races. Again it'd be pointless to talk about which universe's more impossibly powerful whatever is actually that powerful. The only thing Star Wars doesn't have is Q but none of the Q intervene directly on the lesser being's behalf, or there would be no point for anyone to do anything in Star Trek when a Q can just do it all, so while Star Wars do not have any power to match that of Q, you can safely assume Q will still sit on the sidelines like they usually do. Anybody of Sith origin is probably more interesting for a Q to play with than the people of Star Trek.

 

Even if the Q didn't get involved, there are plenty of others that would, including the ones that stopped a war between the Klingons and the Federation. I think Q has intervened to stop the Borg, but he gave the Federation just enough information to do it on their own.

 

Hey I pointed out a scenario that is similar in both universes, and pointed out whom did better despite a handicap. I don't care if Star Wars fans don't like the results, go yell at Timothy Zahn that he didn't make ISDs able to smash through planets and fly through stars (literally). I took a similar set of circumstances, and the Star Trek ship did a lot better than the Star Wars ship.

 

I pointed out the destructive power of the smallest hand phaser in star trek (and the least powerful), being able to literally vaporize a 3 meter cube of solid tritanium.

 

1. A Star Wars fan ran around claiming that tritanium is so brittle that a thrown rock can break it (without providing a source, and I think I know the source in which case the SW fan in question was either taking an episode out of context in ignorance, or deliberately (and I suspect the latter) where the tritanium had been exposed to a temperal distortion that reduced it to a pre-tritanium alloy state and one of the materials in tritanium is very brittle, while the alloy is extremely durable, I further pointed out how Star Trek: Generations proves the claim made by the Star Wars fan to be false).

 

2. This same Star Wars fan ran around claiming that Durasteel is at least as strong as quantum armor, or neutronium, or some other exotic material (which it's not). Durasteel isn't some godlike material it probably has the same structural property as steel or slightly better.

 

Let's assume that tritanium and durasteel are similar, that means that the smallest (and weakest) Federation sidearm can one-shot an AT-ST.

 

3. This same Star Wars fan then claimed that first the Empire could stage in the alpha quadrant under the assumption that Star Trek sensors are as bad as Star Wars sensors (considering the capabilities of Star Trek sensor technology, I think they would notice a fleet emerging from an anomoly in the middle of Federation space)...

 

4. Then this same Star Wars fan said no he meant the Delta Quadrant, which is the middle of Borg Space, and considering the Empire does not have any astrogation charts of the Milky Way, they are rather unlikely to even find Federation Space let alone Earth.

 

Little bit of Star Wars tech fact: You are totally blind when you enter hyperspace, you have to make a lot of calculations to ensure you don't get yanked out by a random mass shadow, fly into a supernova, etc. If you will recall Empire Strikes Back, you'd notice that the Empire knew where Hoth was. Dagobah was also in the astrogation database. Without that information, the Empire could have known the Rebels were at a place called Hoth and wouldn't do them much good, because they had no clue how to get there. The fact they have no navigational information of the Milky Way Galaxy means that using the Hyperdrive is like playing Russian Roulette.

 

Little bit of Star Trek Tech trivia: Warp Drive can not only operate inside a gravity well, it can operate inside an atmosphere as seen in Star Trek IV. Furthermore, a Star Trek ship can see where they are going while at Warp and change course while at warp without dropping out of warp. A Star Trek ship can also detect planets from light years away. You plop a Federation Starship in the middle of unknown space with no map, and they'll be able to begin to navigate the area fairly quickly and create their own maps.

 

Hyperdrive may be faster, but that doesn't necessarily make it better than Warp Drive, additionally Star Wars ships can't use Star Trek astrogation maps, because Star Trek ships generally aren't affected by gravity wells.

 

I've also brought up real life physics in areas where we know about Star Wars and Star Trek. Fusion and Fission exist, but so does antimatter.

 

Gene Roddenberry tried to stay in touch with scientists when he produced Star Trek, there are a lot of actual scientific theories in Star Trek episodes if one cares to look.

Edited August 13, 2012 by GarfieldJL

[jarjarloves]

like I said i'm not familer with Star Trek and I don't remember any guy named Q but every time I hear you guys talking about it I think of this guy

 

 

http://filmcrithulk.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/q-desmond-llewelyn.jpg

 

yeah that guy beating everyone.

 

But from what I know about Physics and Star Wars I can say with out a doubt the Empire doesn't have a chance against Star Trek.

 

I love Star Wars to death but I also know what i'm talking about when I say it isn't as powerful as fanboys make it out to be.

Edited August 13, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Astarica]

Even if the Q didn't get involved, there are plenty of others that would, including the ones that stopped a war between the Klingons and the Federation. I think Q has intervened to stop the Borg, but he gave the Federation just enough information to do it on their own.

 

Although the Qs aren't all-knowing (or there wouldn't be a point for their tests for humanity, they'd already know the result!), they're certainly more than capable of figuring out which side is stronger. If Star Trek side is stronger they'd have obviously no reason to get involved, because it's hard to imagine why any of the Qs would care about destroying stuff the old fashion way when they can make stuff stop existing on a whim and the Q weapons are basically supernovas anyway. If the two sides are badly matched (against Star Trek's favor) then the Q would just make sure the two galaxies never met. So the only way Q would get involved is if Star Trek is weaker but not lopsided but even in that case I can only see the Q bouncing one of the galaxy a few gazillion light years away to prevent the war from continuing, so at best they'd work as a 'reset' mechanism.

 

I guess you could see Q show up with something like: "Hey guys I found the location of the Emperor's cloaked space station and Picard must lead the charge to defeat him." But since this is not a Star Trek episode the Star Trek guys will no longer be protected by plot immunity. That is you're not going to see Picard pickup a lightsaber and inexplicably defeat the Emperor. At best maybe Q will pull Picard out of the way before the Emperor fries him but no way Q will step in and take care of the Emperor himself, since that's just not his style.