Remove gear stats from PvP please.

[Roiz]

It gives you a boost (and you do not need 2x boost, just milliseconds), that's why some time ago there were claims about some brand suits and even rules change.

 

And of course you can't measure how boots will change perfomance of football player, but you can't be sure there is a difference.

Ha-ha it is a joke. Ronaldo was a great player cause he was wearing Nike:)

 

There is no actual difference in football boots on champions league and some kind of not professional players, all football players have access to the same boots, You can go to any sport market and buy then and believe me you don't need to play football for two years to get better boots.

 

But in this game you have to play for months to get unfair advantage of better gear and difference between recruit gear and WH is significant.

[Roiz]

I´ve full augmented, modified war hero gear. Now Op, you wanna take that from me? From others too? I didn't find gearing up pain at all, I enjoyed it and now I enjoy even more because I have power! And I think I deserve it as so many others too. P.S. When you learn how to survive and succeed at lower gear, you will pretty much dominate when you got the gear.

 

It is not fun. I want fair competition. I do not need gear advantage over players in recruit gear. It is just bad players who need it.

[Roiz]

Dont new racers start in Karts and not in Formula 1?

 

Never seen a competition between Karts and F1 in one track.

[BambulaGTS]

Ha-ha it is a joke. Ronaldo was a great player cause he was wearing Nike:)

 

There is no actual difference in football boots on champions league and some kind of not professional players, all football players have access to the same boots, You can go to any sport market and buy then and believe me you don't need to play football for two years to get better boots.

 

But in this game you have to play for months to get unfair advantage of better gear and difference between recruit gear and WH is significant.

 

All swtor players have access to same gear.

 

You can't play in professinal football league from the get go. And no, nobody from Nike or Adidas (or whatever) will make custom boots for you John Doe.

 

Hell, it is so simple to grasp?

[Naplm]

It is not fun. I want fair competition. I do not need gear advantage over players in recruit gear. It is just bad players who need it.

 

This game is what it is, if it does not suit you than you must check for another game. Rankeds are the place where equally geared ppl meet each other and the team with better skills wins.

 

Op's request is ridiculous tbh, same as I created a thread where I demand PVE gear stats removed.

[Roiz]

All swtor players have access to same gear.

 

You can't play in professinal football league from the get go. And no, nobody from Nike or Adidas (or whatever) will make custom boots for you John Doe.

 

Hell, it is so simple to grasp?

 

Not all SWTOR players have access to the same gear, if it was like that I wouldn't create this topic. Just enter any warzone and you will see some players have WH gear and other recruit and BM.

 

People play in professional football league not because of better gear but because of their skills. If you think what people play football for year to get better boots and another 3 years to get even better boots then good luck:)

 

I do not need custom boots cause I am not a footballers, but if I needed i could go into sport shop and buy them and I am sure they won't be worse than boots professional footballers have it just a matter of price even the best boots doesn't cost a lot.

[Roiz]

This game is what it is, if it does not suit you than you must check for another game. Rankeds are the place where equally geared ppl meet each other and the team with better skills wins.

.

 

No, ranked in this game is definitely not where equally geared people meat each other. I can create two team one full WH and another full recruit and they will face each other and not a fact that team with better team play and skill wins, cause WH guys have huge and unfair advantage.

[CRNphg]

Never seen a competition between Karts and F1 in one track.

 

True lol, maybe not the best analogy.

 

However i've never seen a race class where a driver could improve his car with his earnings to compete with better performing cars either.

Take the factory team of Chevrolet in the WTCC.

[WhiskeyGin]

After looking at London Olympics games, there fair play dominate, I started to think why we cannot have fair play in SWTOR PvP.

 

SWTOR PvP is currently discrimination based on gear, gear give some players ridiculous handicap whilst others players has serious disadvantage. All players need the same stats in PvP, it should be no unfair advantage even for 1% more dmg or healing.

 

We need gear stats does not affect player vs player performance. No matter what gear you have damage and healing in player vs player combat should be calculated on static coefficients without taking gear stats. Gear stats can affect pve only, but as soon player involves into pvp combat in open world or warzones damage need to be calculated without taking gear into an account.

 

Another major improvement we need is improvement of bolster system. Any player entered warzone at level below 50 should automatically increase its level to 50 with all class abilities available. We need the same queue poll for all levels from level 10 to level 50 where all player of the same class no matter of level has ABSOLUTELY the same HP, damage and healing with no discrimination based on level and gear.

 

Actually BW has a choice move this game forward and make it as a standart for e-sports or loose all its PvP population to Guild Wars 2 and other games where people compete on fair basis.

 

You do understand half the fun in an MMO is saying "my gear is better than yours" then rubbing that other person's face against some bricks, right? It's a pretty basic human instinct to want to be better than others engaged in the same activity you are. Duh.

[Nolenthar]

Not all SWTOR players have access to the same gear, if it was like that I wouldn't create this topic. Just enter any warzone and you will see some players have WH gear and other recruit and BM.

 

People play in professional football league not because of better gear but because of their skills. If you think what people play football for year to get better boots and another 3 years to get even better boots then good luck:)

 

I do not need custom boots cause I am not a footballers, but if I needed i could go into sport shop and buy them and I am sure they won't be worse than boots professional footballers have it just a matter of price even the best boots doesn't cost a lot.

 

I do hope you're not really thinking you can compare a casual-focused-LoLeasy-video_game or any video_games to being in a professional league. If you however also think that the gear in Ice Hockey, Baseball or Football doesn't play a role (even a slight one sure, but have LAK play with 70s skates and sticks against NYD play with current gear, and play this Stanley Cup final again, and we will see ), then you're mostly delusional, and last but not least, if you think you constantly loose over this player because you have BM and he has WH, you might not want to have the gear gap removed, because the reality facing might be harsh.

 

Like it or not, but gear and class balance are rather a benediction for 70% of the playerbase. It allows them to ignore how bad they are and to curse their defeat on external causes. It also allows them to improve their character no matter what. Failing to gear up your character in PvP is simply impossible, you can have the grind harder than people but you cannot fail it, you constantly get 50-140 WZ comms very easily for each wz, and eventually, you'll have your full WH set. Failing to increase your skills or to just become better is still possible. At least everyone will see progression.

 

Gear issue is a non issue. The only problem it generates is that people who refuses to play by the rule claims they loose because of the gear, but would it be removed, they would still be there on the forum, complaining about how they lost in Huttball because of a guardian lep, a shadow resiliance, or a sage pull, because of why they lost VS because of AoE, why they lost CW because of a ninja cap.

At the end of the day, there ought to be a reason for you failing, and this reason is rather not anywhere related to you, but to everything else in the mouth of the loser.

 

Or maybe I'm wrong, I'm sure none of you have ever blamed the referee for loosing a game in any sport, and it's not the most common explanation for sport loss.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Nolenthar

[PowerReaper]

You know, everyone had to grind for they're gear right?

[kweassa]

Not all SWTOR players have access to the same gear, if it was like that I wouldn't create this topic. Just enter any warzone and you will see some players have WH gear and other recruit and BM.

 

Everyone has access to the same gear. Everyone is free to pursue the same objective, the 'final destination' in gear farming to his own choosing.

 

The difference in gear is simply a matter of choice. Those who choose to work diligently to do daily PvP quests, play WZs every day regularly, will in time, all come to arrive at the exact point.

 

You, for some reason, have a very twisted and malicious definition of "equality" in this matter. Your version of equal gear distribution is to simply let everyone have access to anything without properly deserving it through personal effort.

 

 

People play in professional football league not because of better gear but because of their skills. If you think what people play football for year to get better boots and another 3 years to get even better boots then good luck:)

 

People who play in professional leagues spend hours and hours and hours of training to prepare themselves. Not only do they train their technique, but also they train physically, to improve their stats to the limit.

 

Ofcourse, those players are free to slack away and mumble gibberish like "I don't need no preparation. I'm already top of my game. I know I've got pure skill, so I should be given all the incentives of a top player". You know what happens to those types of players, in the world's most professional and ruthless environment of competitive sports?

 

Take a wild guess, because your repeated crap is simply the same thing.

 

The more professional and dedicated you are, the more time you spend to get your basic stats as optimal as possible. In sports, that manifests as basic training, physical and mental, hours and hours spent daily with blood, sweat and tears. In this game, that manifests as gear. Sometimes it is boring, sometimes humiliating, sometimes feels like it will never end.. But those who have endured that hardship earns the right to use better gear.

 

 

I do not need custom boots cause I am not a footballers, but if I needed i could go into sport shop and buy them and I am sure they won't be worse than boots professional footballers have it just a matter of price even the best boots doesn't cost a lot.

 

You have know idea how much top-end sports gear costs, do you?

 

Besides, people don't give those out for free. The team, the sponsors provide gear to proven players, who have trained thoroughly and shown results in game. They don't give those expensive out for free to rookies or wannabes.

 

So stop wasting our time, and stop poisoning the forums with your filth.

 

No work, no gain. If you want better gear, you work for it, not throw tantrums demanding things for free in the street like a two-bit hoodlum, you lazy man.

[Nolenthar]

Stuff

 

Oh god, looks like there are a few smart people on those forums in the end. Thanks for giving me hope for this game and I wouldn't have said better

[Brool]

Oh god, looks like there are a few smart people on those forums in the end. Thanks for giving me hope for this game and I wouldn't have said better

 

I dont think anyone has ever put it any better than you or kwaesssa(sp). Thank you to both of you.

 

 

/endthread

/starttears

[Ravashakk]

You can have trainers, friends doctors or anything you like but when athletes goes into competition they have equal equipment. In football they have same boots, in box they have the same gloves. There are standards on sport equipment if you don't meet them you will never be qualified, if you deliberately violate standard on sport equipment you 'll be disqualified.

 

Let's say one boxer put a piece of metal inside his gloves to give advantage over other boxers, it's a typical example of cheating. So you support cheating, right?

 

Everyone in the olympics are not the same or are on the same playing field. The edge that people have is that they are different. Michael Phelps has a body that's perfect for swimming. If you trained hard, do you think you'd EVER be able to compete with him? Even if you were a "technically" better swimmer, he'd still beat you based on genetics.

 

Why don't feather weights get into the ring with heavy weights? Is it possible that the feather weight is a better boxer and could win? Yes, but we all know how that fight would go 90% of the time based on the advantages the bigger boxer has....and it isn't a nail in his glove.

 

The differences make the competition interesting. If everyone in the 100m ran like Usain Bolt, and the winner was determined strictly by who reacted the fastest to the starting gun....it wouldn't be that fun to watch.

[fungihoujo]

Everyone has access to the same gear. Everyone is free to pursue the same objective, the 'final destination' in gear farming to his own choosing.

 

True, and everyone has access to a space ship because if you were to work long enough you would eventually get the money to do so.

 

Everyone is free to pursue the same objective- do you by chance have any clue what freedom is? Because you are the first person I have ever seen that doesn't understand the irony of calling a single path and goal 'freedom'. I also find it funny that you are saying the objective of pvp in this game is gear farming- which of course is true, it is- but what about the people who have as their objective something silly- like, oh I don't know- fun? Competition? Having a short game to play that isn't a huge time sink to be on equal footing with enemies?

 

Nope- the objective is 'gear grinding'. Hit the nail on the head there.

 

 

 

 

People who play in professional leagues spend hours and hours and hours of training to prepare themselves. Not only do they train their technique, but also they train physically, to improve their stats to the limit.

 

You're right, which is why if Sidney Crosby were to stop playing hockey for a year entirely, and I were to spend that year playing hockey I would be much better than him, also why when he came in his rookie year he was absolutely terrible while players who have been around for fifteen years in the NHL all have huge advantages other than personal skill and strategy.

 

It also explains why someone who trains hard at SWTOR, if there was actually someone inclined to waste time doing so- who learns the insides and outs of his class, and all the strategies and counter will be exactly as powerful on his full WH character than if he were to make another of his class and deck him in recruit gear. Not to mention why he suddenly sucks at his class, since time spent on a character=skill.

 

 

 

 

You have know idea how much top-end sports gear costs, do you?

 

That would explain why in Wimbledon, at the Stanley Cup, at the masters, the world cup, etc... most of the discussion is on what type of shoes they're wearing and how a 30% bonus to hitting the ball is given because of that rare bat the player spent ten years earning- or how that rookie has to use a rusty pipe when it's his turn to bat for two years before he gets an upgrade.

 

It's a bit tiring isn't it how the Olympics has been non stop talk about what the players are wearing and the massive boosts that are given- that's why China and the US have so many medals; it clearly has more to do with what they're wearing that their own personal skill.

 

And yes- it does take time and money to become a better, more skilled player- much like it does in an mmo EVEN WITHOUT ANY GEAR. When you talk of training you're talking entirely about things that you would be doing in an mmo with or without gear- which entirely nulls your entirely point.

 

No work, no gain. If you want better gear, you work for it, not throw tantrums demanding things for free in the street like a two-bit hoodlum, you lazy man.

 

And as always- the defender of gear grinds can never, ever call the grind fun, or enjoyable- it is work, it is compared to welfare or laziness- and the fact that this is a game meant to be enjoyed is utterly forgotten.

 

I have some advice for you, lazy man. Try getting a full time job, having friends and raising a family- then you'll understand that games are a break from work and time commitments. I guess though when you're unemployed, this game is the closest thing to a job for you.

[Darth_Philar]

I think that an ideal CvC gearing system is as follows:

 

Three tiers

1. Entry Tier - Available for free

2. Advanced Tier - Purchased with commendations, exact same stats as Entry Tier

3. Ranked Tier - Purchased with ranked commendations, exact same stats as Entry Tier

 

Advanced Tier consists of 2 different sets per AC with different set bonuses.

 

Ranked Tier consists of 2 different sets per AC with different set bonuses that are different from the Advanced Tier bonuses.

 

Bonuses are no longer based on 2 and 4 piece tiers, but instead each piece increases the value of the set bonus. For example, if the set bonus is "Increased Range on Saber Throw" then the bonus table would look like this:

 

First Piece = 1m range increase

Second Piece = 2m range increase

Third Piece = 3m range increase

Fourth Piece = 4m range increase

Fifth Piece = 5m range increase

 

The end result is that each AC has 5 sets of gear to choose from, 4 of which have set bonuses and all of which can be mixed and matched to your liking while still keeping the base stats the same across the board for all players.

[Ravashakk]

And as always- the defender of gear grinds can never, ever call the grind fun, or enjoyable- it is work, it is compared to welfare or laziness- and the fact that this is a game meant to be enjoyed is utterly forgotten.

 

I have some advice for you, lazy man. Try getting a full time job, having friends and raising a family- then you'll understand that games are a break from work and time commitments. I guess though when you're unemployed, this game is the closest thing to a job for you.

 

So you think of "work" when you hear the word "welfare" or "lazy"? Giving everyone gear for nothing would be welfare.

[fungihoujo]

If you however also think that the gear in Ice Hockey, Baseball or Football doesn't play a role (even a slight one sure, but have LAK play with 70s skates and sticks against NYD play with current gear, and play this Stanley Cup final again, and we will see ),

 

Name all the hockey teams that are using far inferior skates, pads, sticks and other gear in the NHL.

 

Gear doesn't come into play when everyone has the exact same stuff- which is the case, I have never seen a professional team that is playing with shoddy equipment- simply put, any team that poor can't play their players or buy a franchise in the first place. I've spent the last few days watching the Olympics, and the stuff people are wearing are relatively similar across the board- I have yet to hear a single 'oh that guy is wearing these shoes, that's the only reason he won'.

[fungihoujo]

So you think of "work" when you hear the word "welfare" or "lazy"? Giving everyone gear for nothing would be welfare.

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point exactly that when you start talking about working for gear- the word welfare/lazy soon follows. And thanks for again not realizing games are different from work.

[Roiz]

The difference in gear is simply a matter of choice. Those who choose to work diligently to do daily PvP quests, play WZs every day regularly, will in time, all come to arrive at the exact point.

 

You, for some reason, have a very twisted and malicious definition of "equality" in this matter. Your version of equal gear distribution is to simply let everyone have access to anything without properly deserving it through personal effort.

I think that all people inside the same warzone playing the same class deserve the same gear. No one deserve any kind of unfair advantage like doing more damage or have better defense just because he\she do daily pvp quests every day regularly or just play longer on one character.

[Ravashakk]

Thanks for reinforcing my point exactly that when you start talking about working for gear- the word welfare/lazy soon follows. And thanks for again not realizing games are different from work.

 

I'm sorry that you don't have fun PVPing. If you had fun PVPing, it wouldn't seem like a grind, but rather an added bonus.

 

I'm also sorry your reading comprehension is below average. The public school system has failed you miserably.

[Roiz]

Everyone in the olympics are not the same or are on the same playing field. The edge that people have is that they are different. Michael Phelps has a body that's perfect for swimming. If you trained hard, do you think you'd EVER be able to compete with him? Even if you were a "technically" better swimmer, he'd still beat you based on genetics.

 

Why don't feather weights get into the ring with heavy weights? Is it possible that the feather weight is a better boxer and could win? Yes, but we all know how that fight would go 90% of the time based on the advantages the bigger boxer has....and it isn't a nail in his glove.

 

The differences make the competition interesting. If everyone in the 100m ran like Usain Bolt, and the winner was determined strictly by who reacted the fastest to the starting gun....it wouldn't be that fun to watch.

 

Yes you right it is about swimmer skills and genetics, but not about his gear. have you ever seen that swimmers work hard for months to get better trousers, and after getting them the magic happens the can swim 15% faster.

 

If you want to play better improve your skills, your reaction, rotation. Getting bigger damage numbers and survivability playing the same way it is not the way PvP will go.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Roiz

[Ravashakk]

If you don't like the way this game handles progression....you have options.

[Darth_Philar]

I'm sorry that you don't have fun PVPing. If you had fun PVPing, it wouldn't seem like a grind, but rather an added bonus.

 

I'm also sorry your reading comprehension is below average. The public school system has failed you miserably.

 

Technically, it is you who doesn't enjoy PvP but instead enjoys CvC. He wants actual PvP and you want to keep the game as is (CvC).

 

It is a matter of preference, but is far less confusing when you use the appropriate terminology.