ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 thats why you are still playing it and not trolling the swtor forums right? great community you have there! not to mention the so called "free content" amounts to nothing more than cash shop miscellaneous crap , and the so called content is nothing more than rehashed recycled grindy crap of mediocre production values, if that appeals to you , then more power to you, but i am 99% sure we will NOT get the so called glorified constant updates...we havent gotten them here so far, what makes you think well get them any faster now? they can spin it like "we have dedicated teams for content now" as much as you like, fact is , theres going to be less people working on content and more working on pushing RMT;s , ive seen it in EVERY f2p game , lotro, ddo, dcuo, in short, ive yet to see a f2p game that hastn become pay2win eventually, it always trickles in , item by item I'm not still playing because I am, first and foremost, a Star Wars fan and would rather swing a lightsaber than an Axe. If TOR ever went under, guess what? I am going back to DDO, with all the stuff I purchased still there, because its for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Just shows how some people have this whole entitlement thing going. Hope you have fun in your next game. Oh my goodness, I know, right? Seriously. Entitlement up the wazoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6467 Under the "old" system, we ALL had access to EVERYTHING. Also, it was really funny how the game shipped without a way to alter cosmetics. And there were voices claiming the gear is a bit ugly and pulling mods was a bit expensive; did I mention Campaign gear, which, up to date, is the ONLY PvE set to have bonus to armoring? Under the "new" system.. we get to shell real cash to get `em. Under the old system none of the store items would have existed. So if you ignore the shop you will never notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well they are saying no p2w items....I want to believe them, I really do, but on the other side I played lots of game that started with vanity/conviniece cash shop items and sooner or later turned into p2w games. List of games I played that started with vanity items and derailed to p2w games: - Aion (after going f2p) - R.O.H.A.N - RF Online - Atlantica Online - Perfect World - Fiesta Online - Flyff - Granado Espada - Twelve Sky I'm sure there are plenty more....question is do we trust EA not to turn this into a p2w game? how long before a greedy EA executive enters a meeting with two big $ in his/her eyes?....guess time will tell. Those are 100% f2p MMOs. Lotro and AoC was not, Tbh this is pretty much the end of the P2P market as we know it, was already dying after ¨Lotro´s F2P model¨ and the insane success that it got, and lotro like AoC was almost dead, in a game who already have around 1 mill of subs and is the most populated p2p mmo but wow in the west, a f2p model like this will bring an insame amount of money, new players and subs to the game, they will earn even more than a 100% p2p model with 2 mill of subs, and that is good for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediankh Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 *walks in and sees everyone arguing* You guys are still here.... I thought you guys left here since the announcement! *looks around then puts on his flame-proof hoodie then slowly and awkwardly walks out the door to rethink his life.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elboc Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I think this is all a lot of us needed to know right here: There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. Even though most of us knew this would be the case. I for one am still glad to hear it. F2P wont be the end, it will be the beginning of a better experience IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 and if you feel that everything the game has to offer, excluding the fluff items in the store, is not worth the subscription. Then by all means, you should stop paying. That's why I'm currently subscribed and it wasn't entitlement to be happy with what my sub fee covered, it was contentment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I think this is all a lot of us needed to know right here: There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. Even though most of us knew this would be the case. I for one am still glad to hear it. F2P wont be the end, it will be the beginning of a better experience IMO. Just to be fair LOTRO said the same thing and they did a complete 180 from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketthesaurus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Does anybody really expect them to say... "Yeah, it's going to be Pay to Win and we're totally going to take advantage of and attempt to milk every player in the game for every penny they have!". Rest assured, that's what WILL happen. There is not a single "Free To Play" game in existence that is not pay to win. This is the death of the honest game. Aaaand you're wrong. LOTRO is not P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Under the old system none of the store items would have existed. So if you ignore the shop you will never notice. They could have added them into Legacy and none of the whole F2P thing would have existed. Edited August 1, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganzor Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 So you think your sub should also include unlimited points in the store? Wow. lol If you don't think that a subscription to a game should include everything the game has to offer, you're a fool. The fools are how P2W games make money. Congrats on keeping the most morally bankrupt business plan afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Aaaand you're wrong. LOTRO is not P2W. Anything that gives +1 for cash is P2W. Anything that gives you ONE pair of glasses for cash is not P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I think this is all a lot of us needed to know right here: There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. Even though most of us knew this would be the case. I for one am still glad to hear it. F2P wont be the end, it will be the beginning of a better experience IMO. Yep. But there are people so emotionally irrational they don't want to hear it - they just want to troll and e-rage. Those people are beyond help here and need professional therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DahLliA Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I think this is all a lot of us needed to know right here: There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. Even though most of us knew this would be the case. I for one am still glad to hear it. F2P wont be the end, it will be the beginning of a better experience IMO. You can totally take EAware's promises seriously. Everything they've promised the last 7 months is right here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Anything that gives +1 for cash is P2W. Anything that gives you ONE pair of glasses for cash is not P2W. Thats only how the overly-entitled feel. P2W is only truly P2W if you NEED to buy from the store to beat content, and cannot beat content if you do not buy from the store. That is the ONLY acceptable pay2win model. People crying about buying PvE advantages in the store are only e-raging and saber-rattling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) HK51 is something they really want to get in the game sooner rather than later, while Makeb is further down the line. oh man lol The new companion is a higher priority then new content That is pretty much the direction of the game I also like the part where he talks about content updates every 6 weeks. Whereas we were told previously there would be new content every month and we still havent seen one content update since But I guess now that the ftp model will be in effect and non subs will have to pay for content, maybe they will have more efficient content updates Just more fail Yep I agree the HK-51 being priority over content seems a little alarming tbh. I am more interested in the idea that 1-50 is essentially going to be the same for both models less a few convenience things which bring a $ value to them... I would of thought they would of locked out certain content like Flashpoints for example but hey ho looks like they arent (but lets not to too hasty, nothing is written in stone I guess) But basing off what other F2P models typically charge for bank slots, toon slots, inventory slots ... lets say that could easily see maybe $100 to replicate what a $15 / month subber pays over that same year..... Subbers beware I guess. Its only when new content comes in or when players want to go beyond the level 50 content as it is currently (and I include HM and NM in that cos I cant see them offering that in the F2P package... surely?). Its then that subbers claw back some of the lossess.. depending on how the updates / content is priced. So depending on how the Cartel Coins are rewarded in game and / per month for subbers.. may be potential to come out on top going F2P... which is basically how players should always look at F2P.. nothing is ever free its just opening up options for players.... but there will always be those that want it all and want it now so they whine to mom and dad to stump up the cash, not realising in 6 weeks time they will be doing it all over again... and again... and again Edited August 1, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Aaaand you're wrong. LOTRO is not P2W. So you are saying things like stat tomes, star lite crystals etc offer no advantage at all? What about creeps being able to buy all their skills off the store now instead of earning them? Skipping the trait grind? I mean really do you seriously think none of that gives you an advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavell Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) I think this is all a lot of us needed to know right here: There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. Even though most of us knew this would be the case. I for one am still glad to hear it. F2P wont be the end, it will be the beginning of a better experience IMO. I'll just post this quote from a presentation EA's CEO John Riccitiello gave a while back: When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at this point in time. Yep. EA's a company that toyed with the idea of making you pay real-world cash for bullets in their shooters. Seriously. I don't know what could possibly go wrong with this F2P model, do you? Edited August 1, 2012 by Cavell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWaffle Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I asked the guys what sorts of stuff CC will buy, knowing just how terrified we all are of Pay-to-Win models, and they assured me they have been paying close attention to what's okay business practice with RMT and what's not. Essentially, Cartel Coins will buy a few things: actual in-game content (beyond the 1-50 experience that comes with the game now), vanity items, and convenience items (bank slots, bag slots, character slots, etc). There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. Woah woah woah. Character slots? Is that an exact quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganzor Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Aaaand you're wrong. LOTRO is not P2W. Thank you for your sound reasons about what makes me wrong, I sure am glad you're here to declare these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Yep I agree the HK-51 being priority over content seems a little alarming tbh.) I know and this is the crux of why I'm dissatisfied with this. F2P games makes their killing selling fluff and trash that's easy to churn out for their store, rather than by developing anything meaningful. The cost/profit ratio isn't favourable enough for them. Edited August 1, 2012 by ProsaicProse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 So you are saying things like stat tomes, star lite crystals etc offer no advantage at all? What about creeps being able to buy all their skills off the store now instead of earning them? Skipping the trait grind? I mean really do you seriously think none of that gives you an advantage? And again - P2W is only truly P2W if you NEED to buy from the store to beat content, and cannot beat content if you do not buy from the store. That is the ONLY acceptable pay2win model. People crying about buying PvE advantages in the store are only e-raging and saber-rattling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Thank you for your sound reasons about what makes me wrong, I sure am glad you're here to declare these things. One more time - P2W is only truly P2W if you NEED to buy from the store to beat content, and cannot beat content if you do not buy from the store. That is the ONLY acceptable pay2win model. People crying about buying PvE advantages in the store are only e-raging and saber-rattling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leathfuil Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Do you even know what sabre-rattling is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrias Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Of course the store is Pay-to-be-better. That is part of the appeal. The point is to make money, so of course stuff in the store will give you an edge. But you don't NEED it to WIN. THAT is the point. Those that want it can get it, and those that dont want it dont need it. Its the entire reason why the model works. Like I said before, if they were to do something like skill boosts in PvP, THEN there is a problem - that would be a direct pay-2 win scenario. But advantages in PvE is hardly Pay2 win, when you can beat everything without the store at all. But that's not what they've billed it as. They've said, there will be NOTHING that gives an advantage. There will be nothing you can buy with CC that will give you an advantage over other players in a competitive arena. I suppose they could say that PvE isn't really a competative arena (and lets face it, with the current difficulty, a race to server first something usually boils down to who can sit down and start first), but that ends up devolving into arguing semantics, which seems to really irritate a lot MMO players (again, given my experience of the LotRO forums as new information flooded in about it). I'm not against Pay to be better. Like you, I can accept that it is or might be part of the game that I play, and adapt to it. However, if the plan will be to incorporate them, I would like to be told that it's going to have pay-to-be-better elements, instead of skirting round the issue and hiding behind misleading statements. The only F2P model (Hybrid or otherwise) that I've actually seen to more or less live up to this promise so far has been Champions Online. Every other game that I've played in that has switched to such a payment model slowly slips in little things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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