A practical guide to PvE tanking!

[Tenniswood]

This Is how I tank. I have a level 50 powertech in full blackhole/campaign gear. Feel free to leave comments on your opinions. Let me know if I helped.

 

1. Skill Tree

 

I will start off by explaining where I put my skill points with a brief description why.

Combust(2)- 2.5% less damage is amazing

Intimidation(3)-6% from all fire attacks is big. Most of our attacks are fire and this benefits us more than more damage from rail shot

Ion overload(1)-Self explanatory. Makes rocketpunch stronger, IGC stronger and makes RS an AOE

Steely Resolve(3)-more aim, more damage, more threat

Rebraced Armor(2)- 16% armor rating is HUGE

Shield Vents(2)-boosts shield chance and boosts the rate you vent heat

Oilslick(1)-lame cooldown but nice. Helps in boss fights

Ablative Upgrades(2)- Increases absorption and lowers the CD on our self heal.

Supercharged Ion Gas(1)-buffs IGC

Ion screen(2)-damage reduction is key to survival

Flame shield(2)- increased damage from our heavy hitters and allows us to use RP more often.

Jet Charge(1)-self explanatory. Puts us close to our pray

Flame Surge(2)-gives us two free flame spins after we leap making AoE threat generation cake and increases damage.

Empowered Tech(3)-straight boost to shield. Take It

Heat Screen (2)- boosts absorb with out slowing our dps. Take it.

Heat blast(1)-helps us keep our heat low.

 

Prototype burn enhancers(2)-boosts our crit chance with fire helping us hold hate

Puncture(3)-boosts rail shots efficiency and gives us access to more in the AP tree.

Prototype Cylinders(1)-buffs IGC

Power Armor(2)-boosts DR

 

Iron Fist(2)-further buffs rocket punch

 

I know a lot of people take the extra 3% endurance granted by Integrated Cardio package by passing up Iron fist and Prototype cylinders. I don't find 3% endurance to help that much. At 23,000 HP, that's an extra 690 HP. Not much when you get hit for 2-4k every time. People also like To put points in rail loaders over Intimidation. It helps with AoE because it buffs a hard hitting AoE but on bosses, flame attacks will be more useful.

 

2. Stats

As of right now, defense is the key tanking stat in the game. When bosses use internal and elemental attacks, Shield, absorb and DR won't keep you alive. Avoiding all damage is better than taking part damage. You should aim for about 25 defense chance (758 defense), 50 shield (500 shield chance) and 50 absorb (350 absorb rating). This can easily be reached with your 4 piece set bonus and Rakata stim.

 

Defense 25% > Shield and absorb 50% > endurance >aim> accuracy> everything else

 

3. Best in Slot

To reach these stats I use the MK1 Black hole demolisher earpiece and implants. I put a defense mod from the black hole demolisher gloves into my belt and bracers. I also use to war hero relics that boost my defense. I use the campaign off hand.

For the rest of my gear (helmet, chest, gloves, legs, boots and main hand) I use the following Mods and Enhancements:

Advanced Deflecting Mod 26 x 5 (from black hole gloves)

Advanced Weighted Mod 26 x1 (from black hole boots)

Advanced Bastion Enhancement 26 x3 (From black hole helmet)

Advanced Bulwark Enhancement 26 x1 (From black hole Legs)

Advanced Cognizant Enhancement 26 x2 (From black hole feet)

 

From here I just added augments to get my self to 25 defense, 50 shield and 50 absorb. From her I just added accuracy augments. I don't need a much larger health pool and if I never miss, I never lose aggro. At this point I have about 23k health, buffed.

 

4. Rotation

 

Single Target:

Rocket leap>flame burst x3 > flame sweep > heat blast > priority list

the priority list is this:

1. heat blast is always on cooldown

2.flame burst to keep 4 stacks of heat screen up

3. rapid shots if above 40 heat. Vent heat if you need to go all out

4. rocket punch on cool down

5. rail shot on cooldown

6. Oil slick on Cooldown

7. Thermal sensor overide in conjunction with flame thrower

8. Unload

 

Many targets

DFA>Rocket leap>grapple a far target>flame sweep x2> flame burstx3>heat blast> explosive dart>rail shot

From here just keep rail shot on cool down as well as heat blast. Carbonize spray to keep mobs bunched together for flame thrower and flame sweep to keep agro on a crowed.

 

5. Endnotes

Remember, keep your heat low and keep heat blast on cool down. Rapid shots if heat gets to high and you are maintain threat. If you have any questions post bellow and I will answer. Thanks for reading.

[darthkelpix]

You only use one flame sweep in your rotation when you get two for 0 heat? I use 2 flame sweeps even on boss pulls. Might as well get them while the buff of using them for free is still available. Edited July 31, 2012 by darthkelpix

[Tenniswood]

Sometimes I use two. Most of the time I only use one because I don't have a problem managing heat and it doesn't do that much damage. I always use at least one after I leap though

[Marb]

Nice simple guide.

 

My only nitpick:

 

For a powertech, thats way too much defence rating, not much point going over 360 rating (without stim) . At that point your shield chance and absorption are going to provide more mitigation per point than defence. Our mitigation priority is different to Jugg/Assassin.

[Tenniswood]

I totally agree with you. I hate stacking defense. It feels like I'm playing my class wrong. How ever, the sheer amount of elemental and internal attacks from bosses in operations requires you to have a high amount of defense. Otherwise you are going to get lit up

[Benjah]

Nice simple guide.

For a powertech, thats way too much defence rating, not much point going over 360 rating (without stim) . At that point your shield chance and absorption are going to provide more mitigation per point than defence. Our mitigation priority is different to Jugg/Assassin.

 

I happen to agree with this statement. I may be wrong, but I prefer to stack absorb because of the high cap compared to defense. I'd like to see how beneficial all that defense really is, because mine is at 10%. 53% shield 64% absorb. I have tanked HM Kephess like this. My stats might be off, but I think high absorb works.

[Tenniswood]

A high absorb is nice. I agree. I like the extra 8% from heat screen. It puts me at about 60. I still feel taking no damage is better than taking less damage. So to me, 5% defense is better than 5% shield or 10%absorb.

[wetslampigduex]

agreed 25 in def is much to high 16 is about where you want it. im sitting at 51 shield 54 absorb and almost 16 def chance and have 27,300hp (all aim, endurance augments)

 

By all means if it works for you than stick with it. but id think that much d is taking away form a lot of your tanking procs. lowering heat shielding refreshing rocket punch. i do understand that some stuff can't be shielded but imo your better off stacking a bit more endurance which wont take away from your build.

[Tenniswood]

I think 20-25% is the ideal range. I might be to night butlike I said, taking no damage is better than taking part damage. Feel free to stack your stats how you wan. I might consider dropping 5% defense for 10% absorb and some health. Less than 20% defense is not good though.

[gabigool]

Never thought about using explosive dart in aoe packs. I usually just use it on a standard mob on spread-out trash pulls if grapple is down.

 

Target of target helps but it's also a good idea when possible (I.e. No cliffs) to just get in the habit of turning the boss around. Gives healers a quicker head's up some damage is going somewhere else and cuts out a lot of splash/cleave/cone damage to your group.

 

Another tactic I find useful on big packs is to carbonize as jet charge is almost off cd and back up a few steps, then re-charge for the free two flame sweeps. Worth doing once on big packs.

 

Honestly though, FP tanking in this game as a PT is retardedly easy with a group that understands threat, focused dps and proper kill orders. Typing one non-douchy instructive sentence in /p after a clusterf##k pull will boost your survivability and heat-management ability more than any rotation advice. Not more than a handful of bosses I can think of where the tank has to worry about a whole lot, mechanics-wise. 95% of the time you pretty much need to watch nothing but your heat-shield icon and your healer's resource bar.

 

Ops tanking is not really much different, just more stuff to watch on your debuff list.

[SilentKitty]

Nice with a guide, I've been thinking about starting a BH-tank so this is exactly what I need =)

[Mc_Gregor]

You seem to confuse attack type with damage type. There are 4 attack types and 4 damage types.

 

Melee and ranged wich can be avoided or shielded

tech and force with cannot be avoided or shielded

 

Then there are damage types:

 

kinetic and energy wich can be mitigated by armor

elemental and internal wich cannot be mitigated by armor

 

Remember that when stacking your defensive stats.

Also avoiding an attack completely is not always better than shielding it. When looking at defensive capabilities you cant just look at one attack, you have to take into consideration whole boss fight and calculate how much damage has been avoided by calculating attacks doged and damage absorbed thanks to your shield. In perfect world having 25% defence is practically the same as having 50%shield/50% absoprtion (nets you the same damage reduction in the end).

[Teioh_White]

Have to parrot the above poster, as most attacks that do elemental/internal damage are usually tech or force. I suppose some melee attacks may have a bleed associated with them, but i'm unaware of any OP/FP boss that does that.

 

What that means, is that all 3 tanking stats aren't going to do much for you against much of the attacks thrown your way. No matter how high that Defense gets, Stormcaller and Zoth will have their nasty way with you

 

. That said, I prefer to stack shield/absorb as high as they can go, as the point of defense stats is to stabilize during the white damage of a boss, so the healer can catch up and give you some buffer before the next yellow wave comes in that you can do jack about.

 

Shields more consistent than Defense, and that consistency is what's most important. It doesn't matter if sometimes Defense would've done better, if Shield would've done it good enough every time.

[Tenniswood]

I understand the attacks that can be shielded and absorbed. Damage reduction does not help though which is the basis of our damage mitigation. I can see why people would like to stack as much shield and absorb as they can but you can really only get them both to about 60. I can see why you think 25 defense is to much and I'm actually re-tooling my gear a bit right now but less than 20% is not a good idea. Taking no damage is better than taking part damage.

[CitizenFry]

For Vanguard/Powertech, you want defense% somewhere in the 15-20% range for top-end gear. OP has way too much invested in defense, IMO. Ideally, your stat budget should be about a 1/2/2 ratio for D/S/A rating. This gives you the maximum expected damage reduction.

 

I think the "free AOE after leap" talent is rubbish, and I invest those points lower in the tree. YMMV.

Edited August 1, 2012 by CitizenFry

[Tenniswood]

I am starting to think the ideal defense is 20%. That gives you ample room for shield and absorb while still giving you a large hit pool. And that is an interesting idea. I might try putting those two points in rail loaders

[pure_laced]

Where to begin.....

 

First I will ask a question. How much endgame have you tanked and at what raid comp sizes?

 

Now I will go into the rest:

 

- Spec is close. With the changes to threat, Integrated Cardio Package is > than Iron Fist/Prototype Cylinders at the true end game, which is HM and NiM. On my PT it is almost a 900 hp increase.

 

- You are clearly wrong with regards to tanking stats and having that high of defense. Take it from someone that has spent MILLIONS of credits and comparing log parses week after week running test samples at various stages of Defensive stats each week. 70+% of all attacks at the end game can be shielded/absorbed so spending more time trying to throw up defense and be like the other tanks is a waste of time.

 

- Through logs a good target is 15%def, 50%shield, 50%absorb. At BIS two trains of thought, one is all endurance and the other is all shield absorb. I did the all shield absorb route first and have yet to try the all endurance. I sit at 16% defense with stim, 60%shield, 60%absorb. I will only take huge damage spikes in the event of crits, but all the little stuff is negligible. In fact, my healers say they don't even need to focus on me hardly ever because of how miniscule the incoming damage is. Think block tanks in WoW.

 

- Our talents, heat management, etc is all about shield/absorb so you should really focus on those stats over defense. If you are avoiding damage, you will be limited on threat and damage you can push out because you will always be concerned by heat. Even throwing accuracy in there at all with your statement is incorrect. Accuracy affects 3 abilities" Rail Shot, Rapid Fire, Unload. Check logs next time with 0 accuracy on your gear for boss fights and see what your miss ratio is on Rail Shots. I haven't missed a single one in over 4 weeks. How about Rocket Punch procs? Defending attacks minimizes the chances of procs.

 

- Best in slot list is incorrect based on above.

 

- Rotation....there isn't one it is priority based. Your opener is totally incorrect and you aren't using your offensive cooldowns in conjunction with your hardest hitting abilities to maximize burst threat.

 

Opener (Threat is > Defensive at start):

1. Rocket Leap

2. Flame Sweep x 2

3. Explosive Fuel and Thermal Sensor Override.

4. Death From Above.

5. Rocket Punch

6. Rail Shot

7. Flame Burst x 3

8. Heat Blast

 

Priority:

1. Heat Blast/Flame Burst to keep 4 stacks.

2. Rocket Punch.

3. Rail Shot.

4. Oil Slick on use when you can predict incoming damage. Firebrand is a good one to use at end of Defensive, Nightmare Pilgrim, Thing from the Stars, etc.

5. Offensive cooldowns when they line up with hard hitting abilities.

 

I won't go into AoE packs or anything because they should be self explanatory.

 

Reading through some of your posts, it has become clearer you don't understand fully how defensive stats work, the difference in attacks, and the difference between classes. I applaud you for writing a guide as that takes time, and you want to be helpful. I will give you Kudos for that. However there is a lot of misinformation in there, and that can lead to very confused players out there, and that is something we don't need.

[pure_laced]

For Vanguard/Powertech, you want defense% somewhere in the 15-20% range for top-end gear. OP has way too much invested in defense, IMO. Ideally, your stat budget should be about a 1/2/2 ratio for D/S/A rating. This gives you the maximum expected damage reduction.

 

I think the "free AOE after leap" talent is rubbish, and I invest those points lower in the tree. YMMV.

 

Kephess adds. Free AoE's after leaps is awesome here. Adds spawn, leap, carbonize, wait for warrior to be pulled, free flame sweeps, then continue flame sweep, FT, etc. I time it so I have Vent Heat to use for my AoE pack. Of course, strats can also vary and it might not be a beneficial talent for your strat.

[Mc_Gregor]

My opener is a bit different. After leap I use Flame Sweep 2 times but after that I prefer to rocket punch+railshot to let my dps go all-out from the start. Followed by 3x Flameburst and Heatblast to build up my heat screen, then Thermal sensor override with flamethrower or DFA to vent heat built at the start. Also using DFA so early in the fight is not possible because you are running with boss into your position. By the time you get there your stacks should be up and you can use DFA/flamethrower.

 

And yes I forgot to say that earlier- Powertech mechanics is not built around defence and stacking it you are making yourself less efficient in the long run.

[pure_laced]

My opener is a bit different. After leap I use Flame Sweep 2 times but after that I prefer to rocket punch+railshot to let my dps go all-out from the start. Followed by 3x Flameburst and Heatblast to build up my heat screen, then Thermal sensor override with flamethrower or DFA to vent heat built at the start. Also using DFA so early in the fight is not possible because you are running with boss into your position. By the time you get there your stacks should be up and you can use DFA/flamethrower.

 

And yes I forgot to say that earlier- Powertech mechanics is not built around defence and stacking it you are making yourself less efficient in the long run.

 

Which bosses do you have to run into position?

EC: Zorn and Toth, everyone else is statically positioned.

KP: Bonethrasher doesn't follow position mechanics, KP because you will need to move, but only after the DFA if done correctly.

EV - Puzzle boss because the boss is the puzzle itself, not the spawned adds.

 

Explosive Fuel, Thermal Override DFA threat is solid snap threat, plus your Rocket Punch and Rail Shot benefit from the EF cd.

[CitizenFry]

Kephess adds. Free AoE's after leaps is awesome here. Adds spawn, leap, carbonize, wait for warrior to be pulled, free flame sweeps, then continue flame sweep, FT, etc. I time it so I have Vent Heat to use for my AoE pack. Of course, strats can also vary and it might not be a beneficial talent for your strat.

 

For our strat for HM Kephess, I can't really leap, so I wouldn't get the free AOEs. We have a DPS solo the warriors away from the raid while we AOE the trenchgutters. I usually do Pulse Cannon + one Explosive Surge on the first pack (co-tank taunts them), Mortar Volley + one Explosive Surge on the second pack, and area taunt + Pulse Cannon + Explosive Surge on the last pack. No ammo problems since there's plenty of time between groups to recharge, no DPS problems because the rest of the group ALSO has plenty of AOEs to take down the mobs that quickly.

 

My question back to you: even assuming free AOEs are useful for Kephess adds...on what other endgame fights do they have any real value? Maybe Foreman Crusher adds, but you could just as well be DFA-ing those guys.

[pure_laced]

Zorn and Toth - Initial Leap and Flame Sweep twice while positioning. Leaps and flame sweep every Toth leap phase on tank switches.

 

Firebrand and Stormcaller - Initial leap, every defensive system on the leap back.

 

Vorgath - Every knockback he does, leap and flame sweep x 2.

 

Free resourceless damage is > resource damage at every opportunity. The only time this would deviate is you have to have snap threat on single target. I know alot of PT's forget about the talent, even I do sometimes.

[thrakkemarn]

^ This.

 

If you are not able to find ways to fit jet charge + flame sweep into your rotation (even if it's JUST for the opener and initial aggro, but usually multiple times per fight) then you're doing something wrong.

 

Even on Kephess, there's inevitably at least 1 Trenchcutter that you can easily get enough distance on to charge, giving you even MORE aoe damage. Why settle for enough when you can have more?

 

Personally I find that on every fight [Grapple >] Jet Charge > rocket punch > rail shot > flame burst x3 > flame sweep x2 is a perfect opener that will keep aggro off even the best DPS and leave you with a reserve of heat and both your taunts available for whatever you need to do next. The only time I don't open with Grapple is when I need it to pull something (such as bombers on kephess).

Edited August 2, 2012 by thrakkemarn

[CitizenFry]

Zorn and Toth - Initial Leap and Flame Sweep twice while positioning. Leaps and flame sweep every Toth leap phase on tank switches.

 

Firebrand and Stormcaller - Initial leap, every defensive system on the leap back.

 

Vorgath - Every knockback he does, leap and flame sweep x 2.

 

Free resourceless damage is > resource damage at every opportunity. The only time this would deviate is you have to have snap threat on single target. I know alot of PT's forget about the talent, even I do sometimes.

Z&T: really? I don't leap on this fight AT ALL. I save myself a couple punches to the face during the running.

 

Explosive Surge does very, very low damage to single targets, only barely more than Hammer Shot, and definitely less than Ion Pulse. I think you're really only getting a benefit if you're hitting multiple targets with it, which you definitely aren't for Vorgath and hovertanks, and you probably aren't for Zorn + Toth. I think you get a lot more value out of something like Rail Loaders. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Vanguard#8i6e6dek2k-c92-c

[thrakkemarn]

This Is how I tank. I have a level 50 powertech in full blackhole/campaign gear.

2. Stats

As of right now, defense is the key tanking stat in the game. When bosses use internal and elemental attacks, Shield, absorb and DR won't keep you alive. Avoiding all damage is better than taking part damage. You should aim for about 25 defense chance (758 defense), 50 shield (500 shield chance) and 50 absorb (350 absorb rating). This can easily be reached with your 4 piece set bonus and Rakata stim.

 

WHOA .. I just read this a little closer. It is all kinds of wrong.

 

Defense AND shield both work vs the same types of attacks. You are totally confusing ATTACK TYPE with DAMAGE TYPE.

 

There are 4 ATTACK TYPES: Ranged, Melee, Tech and Force.

Combined with 4 DAMAGE TYPES: Internal, Elemental, Kinetic and Energy.

 

Defense and Shield/Absorb all work vs ANY Melee or Ranged attack, regardless of whether the damage is internal, elemental, kinetic or energy. They are BOTH worthless vs Force or Tech attacks.

 

Armor protects vs all Kinetic and Energy damage, regardless of the attack type. It is worthless vs internal and elemental damage.

 

This is well documented and can be empirically proven - just look at your combat logs after a duel or something. Or here: http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

Now, defense for a powertech is actually NOT the best stat. It is in fact the worst mitigation stat, in that you want more shield and absorb than defense.

 

Using your stats: 758 Def, 500 Shield, 350 Absorb we are at a stat budget of 1608. This is faaaaar from the best in slot for tanking, even IF defense were the stat we wanted to prioritize.

 

I consider myself to be at close to best in slot and my stat budget is 1839 with 485 Defense, 796 Shield and 558 Absorb (this is with a exotech fortitude stim).

 

Again, taking your stats and plugging them into the tanking spreadsheet we reach a Squishiness value of 0.245427703548281 ... effectively you are taking 24.5% of incoming damage.

 

Using my stats we achieve a value of 0.225958319224751 ... effectively 22.5%, so I am taking 2% less damage than you.

 

Lets assume you actually itemize better while still stressing Defense, and boost yourself up to my values. If I swap out the War Hero shield relics for Defense (113x2) and my 2 Absorb 41 mods for Defense 45 ... I could achieve 801 Defense, 570 Shield and 476 Absorb. This would be a budget of 1847 (MORE overall stats than I currently have) but would still only achieve a Squishiness of 0.22924682530949. That's 22.9% ... so 0.4% more damage taken when I emphasize Defense.

 

In addition to taking more overall damage when emphasizing Defense, I am more Spikey and am going to be Crit more often (although Hit less often). What this means is that the damage coming in to me is less smooth and harder to heal through. No brainer you want to be less squishey.

 

And finally, when you emphasize Defense over Shield, you reduce the chances of your talents based around shield procs going off. This means you are less likely to vent heat through shielding and cooldown rocket punch through shielding. This means less DPS and less Aggro. Again, no brainer.

 

Here is the link to my tanking spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avs0hCh27RmidElOMVJxcU1FSDM1VDdoSXBuLWF3SUE#gid=0

Here is my AMR profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/bf5e11a9-664f-4c7e-afb0-d1947be1801a