Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) redesigning the entire game..not very wise.... not very wise at all when the game is less than a year old and is still in flux...thats what killed the sega game consoles..too many redesigns too quickly So true, but do you notice the trend in any of these threads, they always state is not swg 2 yet at the same time treat it as if its wow 2 following wows rule sets of what does and doesnt go in the game. Cos here is a cold hard fact, when the do do hits the fan, its us that are deep into the lore, roleplaying etc that are the last ones out the door and turn the lights out. The more you have of us the more cash you will get over the duration. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baphomet_x Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 So true, but do you notice the trend in any of these threads, they always state is not swg 2 yet at the same time treat it as if its wow 2 following wows rule sets of what does and doesnt go in the game. Cos here is a cold hard fact, when the do do hits the fan, its us that are deep into the lore, roleplaying etc that are the last ones out the door and turn the lights out. The more you have of us the more cash you will get over the duration. right on....first to enter last to leave im still on my fourth set of kotor 1 and 2 discs...due to having burnt the others out with repetitive playthroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeimos Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 This isnt wow2, just let it go. Nope it isn't And I am sure glad it isn't. So get off your SWG 2 humping fantasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Nope it isn't And I am sure glad it isn't. So get off your SWG 2 humping fantasy You want me to get off the swg fantasy or the star wars fantasy, what swg fantasy am i following btw cos i would love for you to explain it to me because all i have heard so far is that we must follow the exact rules that have been set out for wow. So please please please be so kind as to tell us what this swg thing we are after, are you stating that anything that was in swg cannot be here or that everything that is in wow must. So yes please show us the error of our ways because we are seriously wondering are you attacking swg or a perticular genre. I await your reply. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeimos Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I will not feed the counter-troll. I have my reasons. Suffice to say, SWG tried too much to be like real life. Now, I bow out of this thread by saying 'Lets not play Star Wars: Sims, okay?' GG Edited July 18, 2012 by DarthDeimos Forgot the last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baphomet_x Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) no ,warcraft is worthless..and i shall burn it...i shall destroy its infrastrucutre...and wash any favoritism towards warcraft out of my mind,and beg for forgiveness from those more worthy than warcraft fans,the ones that actually like swtor,and can understand when the game needs a neatly organized social aspects...also,i have a habit of altering peoples quotes to make myself look like an important player Hello, /ignore. two can play at that game,,,you might as well give up now halford...because you wont win by getting on an alternate account Edited July 18, 2012 by Baphomet_x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeimos Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Pretty much all the Anti-SWG players in this thread suffer from anti-social disorder picked up from WOW. Besides I haven't seen an instance where I could actually board a sith battleship unless it was to gain a capture refugee or disable a tractor beam to run.Nah, it's simply that if we wanted to be social, we'd go outside and do it. Why play a game for the sole purpose of socializing. From the looks of it, SWG was nearly an underground MMO that the nerds (of the day) played because they simply had no social life. I know this because I knew people like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeimos Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It's also a fact that if the game was half as good as you imagine it, they wouldn't needed to rehaul the entire game to stay afloat, and while you may think that it's the greatest game in the genre, ever, there's alot of disagreement about that, even before the New Game Experience. Alot of people thought that the game sucked, even when it first came out (before it could be compared to WoW) No AAA company makes "sandbox" mmo's anymore, and it's not just because of WoW. Putting all of that aside, there's much more urgent issues. How do you come up with a Republic/Empire counterpart? How do you write good stories for them that extend through 50 levels of content? probably the most important (and why so many people give SWG crap I think) You can't make 50 levels of crafting interesting. He nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeimos Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 What I think is the most funny is that you're taking what is arguably the most boring content out the most boring game and trying to sell it off as a winning strategy. Nobody has EVER said that playing a dancer was FUN. It may have given good buffs, but that's entirely different. More specifically, I think your previous assertion that the 300,000 players that used to play SWG will come to this game, plus more, just for the ability to /dance and give people buffs is laughably illogical. Nowhere are the actually potentially interesting parts of SWG being mentioned (player housing, a more in-depth space sim, etc). To think that every single SWG player is going to magically come and subscribe to a themepark game with 4 boring noncombatant classes and nothing else, is completly foolish. ROFL. Dude, did you take a debate class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeimos Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 But you can't make 50 levels based on that. You can't make an engaging story on that. Show me any story that is actually based on the war entertainers, or any historical figure who only entertained for the benefit of the troops. In any conflict, sure there may be agencies like the USO who get entertainers for the military, but that's usually one show and than they're back to being civilian entertainers. You also have military bands, but they only perform at official ceremonies. In the high-tech fantasy of Star Wars, dedicated military bands are completly unnecesary, the music could (and is) played either via digital recording or live by droids. In movies where they war entertainers are featured, like Capt. America or Apocalypse Now or even Flags of Our Fathers, the entertaining portion is a minor footnote in the overarching narrative. The actual story is the war. All story is about conflict in some manner, and the social classes that you are proposing are completly devoid of any meaningful conflict. What's the dancer's conflict? Oh no,some local tramp is stealing away all my clients... The Crafter? Damn, i've run out of materials to make this gun, i've gotta go farm more. There is nothing there. Not only that, but could you imagine the amount of money that will go into creating all the new hours of voice dialogue for this class alone? The entertainer, let's take the bartender for example, does the most talking. That's all the game would be is talking. Talking. Talking. In one of the developer commentaries, they [bioware] Said that they had recorded 16,000+ hours of dialogue. NPCs, and characters included. Assuming that each class itself has 1,000 hours of dialogue the characters make up easily half of the recorded dialogue. Hell, even 500 hours would denote that the characters make up 1/4th the dialogue in the game. Now you want them to hire 8 new voice actors (4 male and 4 female for each class) and place them into a situation where even more dialogue is required than before? Don't forget, you still have to get all of the other voice actors who will portray the NPCs and your characters as well. Can you imagine the undertaking? The funding? That's just the appeal to funding that would need to be considered. Further, this game isn't designed for social aspects as building houses and sitting around entertaining. Stop there, let's look at entertaining itself. Can you imagine the hours you would put in at a cantina dancing? Can you imagine how boring that would get? Can you imagine how much botting will go into that? Gotta say though, that'd make a good legacy for the mother of my guardian. "My mother was a 5-credit exotic dancer for a hutt." Eesh. Goodness, try to imagine these social classes queueing for Warzones. *facepalm* Here's your counter argument to that "Well, we would disable them the function of queuing." Then you'd get an uproar of people saying that this isn't fair etc. I repeat my previous statement: People don't come on this game to socialize. They come here to kick *** WITH their buddies. In example, my four brothers and I all play on the same server, we don't go there to Dance or build ****. You wanna build? Play MINECRAFT. You wanna dance? PLAY SIMS. You wanna be an engineer/architect? PLAY CIVILIZATION! You wanna use the force? Storm an imperial/republic base? Assasinate high ranking targets? PLAY THE OLD REPUBLIC. The developers said in the begining that this game is about living out your childhood fantasies of the character types from the movies. That could be any of the main characters: Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-wan, Luke, Leia, Han, Jango/Boba Fett, Moff Tarkin, and so on. I can't think of any famous entertainers (other than the one that got eaten by a rancor in Return of the Jedi) who were main characters. I can't think of any famous builders or architects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Why is this thread still going? As stated by another poster. These "social" classes should stay where they belong in the dead SWG. I played SWG and those classes were utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Why is this thread still going? As stated by another poster. These "social" classes should stay where they belong in the dead SWG. I played SWG and those classes were utterly pointless. And like previously stated you dont have to play them and how is it copying swg and how does an entire feature from mmos only belong in swg exactly. And if they were utterly pointless how did you see people playing them, if they were utterly useless no one would have played them especially in the case of swg as you had one char per account, not 8. So yet again, another we dont want swg when this has nothing todo with swg and everything todo with starwars. But hey lets look, dont like group finder, dont use it. Dont like pvp, dont play it, dont like space then dont do it, dont like crafting then leave it alone, not bothered about codex entrys then ignore them. see a trend here. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Taken from the About Bioware page BioWare develops high quality console, PC and online role-playing games, focused on rich stories, unforgettable characters and vast worlds to discover Currently announced projects at BioWare include..., ...and the story-driven massively multiplayer online game, Star Wars®: The Old Republic™. Story has been Bioware's primary focus since they opened shop, and this shows it plain as day, and they aren't going to introduce a class that has no story to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 so in other words...lucas arts has spoken..and everyone in this argument aside from me and shingi and those like us has lost...because we are on lucas art`s side...the only side that ever wins RIght....Because Lucasarts has always put dancers and entertainers in their story-canon Star Wars games. They always put characters that don't matter and don't fit in the with franchise, right at the very front of franchise stories.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baphomet_x Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) RIght....Because Lucasarts has always put dancers and entertainers in their story-canon Star Wars games. They always put characters that don't matter and don't fit in the with franchise, right at the very front of franchise stories.... they did in swg and they also didnt say anything about swg not being canon entirely Edited July 18, 2012 by Baphomet_x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 they did in swg and they also didnt say anything about swg not being canon entirely Leland Chee, the guy in charge of the The Holocron and master of all that is canon and continuity, was once asked if anything the player did was considered canon or not, his response was no. Non-continuity since they exist only in a single galaxy/server. Where-as since each of the class stories remain the same from server to server, they are considered to be canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post CommunitySupport Posted July 18, 2012 Dev Post Share Posted July 18, 2012 We had to remove several posts in this thread for being personal attacks or otherwise off-topic. Please remember to keep debates civil and polite, and if you can't agree to disagree, we strongly recommend using the ignore list. Please take some time to review the Rules of Conduct. If posters in this thread cannot post in a constructive manner, the thread will be closed. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Taken from the About Bioware page Story has been Bioware's primary focus since they opened shop, and this shows it plain as day, and they aren't going to introduce a class that has no story to it. wow wow wow there, some of the best stories of all time are nothing todo with combat, they are todo with love, friendship and joy. For you to state they would have no story is just silly. If they can make story for companions that doesnt involve combat, confesses to love and the joy of freindship and you think they cannot create a story within the lore that follows the lore, expands that story based on where the player gets sent and who they interact with is just insane on your part. Bioware could make you play a mouse droid and still weave story around it that pulls you into the lore of the game, just because we cannot state exactly how they would do it is only because we are not bioware. Also they do put none combat people front and center, palpy was none combat and so was here mmoma lea, lando was to a degree and weedo most definatly was, i wont name the one not to be named aka the gungun but he was most defo none combat, so ye lucas defo likes to make the world he depicts as real as possible and entertainers and traders take a front seat with that. Even the jawas even though they were columni no longer are and are quite the none combatants. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Leland Chee, the guy in charge of the The Holocron and master of all that is canon and continuity, was once asked if anything the player did was considered canon or not, his response was no. Non-continuity since they exist only in a single galaxy/server. Where-as since each of the class stories remain the same from server to server, they are considered to be canon. You want to know why they got rid of holocrons, its the same reason why they removed permadeath, not enough people were unlocking them, they made it a grind and what did that result in, everyone being a jedi. they didnt get rid of holocrons because of lore., they got rid of them chasing profit. When they made jedi a grind they flooded the game with jedis, they became worthless and all other classes disapeared bar some tkm/fencers, they threw the nge in to try and balance it back out but by that time it had failed as anything but a roleplayers world and the only real mmo still to have some sandbox stuff as wow had by that time cornered the market and presseded to set the mmo genre for close to the next decade. So it wasnt that swg pre cu was bad, it was that smedly and soe saw the $$$$ blizzard were making and broke the cardinal rule, they changed the core of the game, from 32 classes to 8 i think it was in the end. PS its due to holocrons i actually know what the blue leaf temple is, and if it hadnt been for that holocron which was pure chance i would never have found the most powerful story within star wars lore. eXar makes vader look like a paper boy. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) wow wow wow there, some of the best stories of all time are nothing todo with combat, they are todo with love, friendship and joy. For you to state they would have no story is just silly. If they can make story for companions that doesnt involve combat, confesses to love and the joy of freindship and you think they cannot create a story within the lore that follows the lore, expands that story based on where the player gets sent and who they interact with is just insane on your part. Bioware could make you play a mouse droid and still weave story around it that pulls you into the lore of the game, just because we cannot state exactly how they would do it is only because we are not bioware. All stories involve conflict of some kind, wether its physical or not. Yes, Star Wars does have romance in it, including with our companions and so on, but that's not what the movies (or franchise) are primarily about. Star Wars at the end of the day is a fantasy epic about the conflict of good and evil. I say they can't make a story about the entertainers because nobody in the past 35 years has. Noone has actually made a story about Max Rebo, he's only appeared in stories where the main characters feature. Act 1 alone is longer than the original Knights of The Old Republic, and that's a pretty extensive game. Even if there's a full act of content in there, you still have two more acts to go. You seem to be missing this whole concept of keeping things consistent. Star Wars has been doing things more or less the same, and touching on the same themes, for decades. Bioware as well has been making the same kind of stories (heroic fantasy) for their entire existance. Your proposal does not match up with either of these. What themes in Star Wars can you touch on with an entertainer that you can't already touch on with the other classes? How does the entertainer become the protaganist that changes the fate of the galaxy that all of the other character classes do? Also they do put none combat people front and center, palpy was none combat and so was here mmoma lea, lando was to a degree and weedo most definatly was, i wont name the one not to be named aka the gungun but he was most defo none combat, so ye lucas defo likes to make the world he depicts as real as possible and entertainers and traders take a front seat with that. Even the jawas even though they were columni no longer are and are quite the none combatants. I do remember quite well that palpatine was a combatant. He even bested the best lightsaber user at the time. Lando was too. Jar Jar was also made to be a combatant even though it wasn't his strongest suit. Yes, noncombatants make apppearances. They may on occassion even be a supporting. They are never the main character. Anyone who is a main character in star wars uses either a blaster or a lightsaber. Edited July 18, 2012 by Darth_Halford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) You want to know why they got rid of holocrons, its the same reason why they removed permadeath, not enough people were unlocking them, they made it a grind and what did that result in, everyone being a jedi. they didnt get rid of holocrons because of lore., they got rid of them chasing profit. When they made jedi a grind they flooded the game with jedis, they became worthless and all other classes disapeared bar some tkm/fencers, they threw the nge in to try and balance it back out but by that time it had failed as anything but a roleplayers world and the only real mmo still to have some sandbox stuff as wow had by that time cornered the market and presseded to set the mmo genre for close to the next decade. So it wasnt that swg pre cu was bad, it was that smedly and soe saw the $$$$ blizzard were making and broke the cardinal rule, they changed the core of the game, from 32 classes to 8 i think it was in the end. PS its due to holocrons i actually know what the blue leaf temple is, and if it hadnt been for that holocron which was pure chance i would never have found the most powerful story within star wars lore. eXar makes vader look like a paper boy. That's not what I was talking about at all. This is exactly what I've been getting on about regarding you and your reading comprehension. I mentioned THE Holocron, rather than A in game Holocron. THE Holocron is a computer system, operated and controlled solely by Leland Chee and owned by Lucas, that keeps track of who or what is or is not canon, and their prospective stories. Edited July 18, 2012 by Darth_Halford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) All stories involve conflict of some kind, wether its physical or not. Yes, Star Wars does have romance in it, including with our companions and so on, but that's not what the movies (or franchise) are primarily about. Star Wars at the end of the day is a fantasy epic about the conflict of good and evil. I say they can't make a story about the entertainers because nobody in the past 35 years has. Noone has actually made a story about Max Rebo, he's only appeared in stories where the main characters feature. Act 1 alone is longer than the original Knights of The Old Republic, and that's a pretty extensive game. Even if there's a full act of content in there, you still have two more acts to go. You seem to be missing this whole concept of keeping things consistent. Star Wars has been doing things more or less the same, and touching on the same themes, for decades. Bioware as well has been making the same kind of stories (heroic fantasy) for their entire existance. Your proposal does not match up with either of these. What themes in Star Wars can you touch on with an entertainer that you can't already touch on with the other classes? How does the entertainer become the protaganist that changes the fate of the galaxy that all of the other character classes do? Conflict doesnt have to be fisticuffs though does it, espionage and spys dont have to be all into the kicking people in the face, if there story revolves around them being the people in the shadows and there story is about being the eyes and ears on worlds that makes it fit, and thats just one example of how they can be involved in the war in a big way but never have to kick anyone in the face. Lets say for example one of the class missions for them is they have to get into a hutt palace, entertainers how bad can they be you say, they have to slip poison into the wine and have a light and dark choice of the light being they warn the person in exchange for there life and any information they have or there companion will nail them to a post or dark they spike the wine, everyone dies and you simply get the information from digital records and send it to your controller. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) That's not what I was talking about at all. This is exactly what I've been getting on about regarding you and your reading comprehension. I mentioned THE Holocron, rather than A in game Holocron. THE Holocron is a computer system, operated and controlled solely by Leland Chee and owned by Lucas, that keeps track of who or what is or is not canon, and their prospective stories. I do actualy know who he is and its a database he maintaines, but with the rather rude remarks you make you really should stop them and just read what i wrote as it was in context with bap and yourself in reference to the previous reply you made. I was purly putting context to what was being discussed so maybe lay off of the you cant read stuff and realise i can read and understand the context of multiple posts holding the conversation at hand as my reference to holocrons was in reference to the lore and how it revolves and is addapted to fit into that game not the actual database. Edited July 18, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Conflict doesnt have to be fisticuffs though does it, espionage and spys dont have to be all into the kicking people in the face, if there story revolves around them being the people in the shadows and there story is about being the eyes and ears on worlds that makes it fit, and thats just one example of how they can be involved in the war in a big way but never have to kick anyone in the face. Lets say for example one of the class missions for them is they have to get into a hutt palace, entertainers how bad can they be you say, they have to slip poison into the wine and have a light and dark choice of the light being they warn the person in exchange for there life and any information they have or there companion will nail them to a post or dark they spike the wine, everyone dies and you simply get the information from digital records and send it to your controller. It's rather out of synch with the rest of the stories in Star Wars. Anyone who is trained as a covert operative is trained in some form of self defense and firearms, so the "noncombatant" thing goes out the window. If you are doing covert operations, you're also no longer a "nuetral" party. And, do you really make 3 acts based on that? Somewhere along the lines they'll figure out who you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Halford Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I do actualy know who he is and its a database he maintaines, but with the rather rude remarks you make you really should stop them and just read what i wrote as it was in context with bap and yourself in reference to the previous reply you made. I was purly putting context to what was being discussed so maybe lay off of the you cant read stuff and realise i can read and understand the context of multiple posts holding the conversation at hand as my reference to holocrons was in reference to the lore and how it revolves and is addapted to fit into that game not the actual database. You're the king of not reading what is actually being written. You've made a carreer here of trying to rewrite what I've said. The discussion was that the game was not canon. What you mentioned had nothing to do that conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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