Tactics Or Shield Spec for PVP?

[Jaige]

Hi im New to vanguard and wanted to know which was the better way to go im going to be PVPing Alot with the 1.3 patch also could you include the build Please.

[Philosomanic]

If you want to focus on killing people, go Tactics (or Assault). I've never really played Tactics, so I can't give you build advice for that.

 

 

However, I can give advice on PvP Tanking as a Vanguard, but I'm going to preface this by saying something really important about PvP tanking. I see lots of PvP tanks that play wrong, so you need to hear this if you're considering it.

 

Your job is not to kill the enemy. That's what damage dealers are for. If you want to be able to take down enemy players, play a DPS (Assault/Tactics). A VG Tank can do well in a 1v1, but it takes a while to kill anything. However, if the enemy is getting heals of any sort, you'll have no chance of taking them down. If you go shield spec, but then spend your time pretending to be a DPS, you're just weighing your team down. Yeah, you won't die very often (you're easy to heal), but you aren't helping your team nearly as much as an actual tank or a DPS player.

 

A good PvP tank's focus is on defending your allies. We have tons of tools for doing this. Your primary tools are guard and taunt. Either use guard on your healer or the current focus target, and taunt whenever anyone targets your healer. However, those are far from our only tools. We also have strong debuffs and lots of CCs. Use your CC frequently, and you can really trip up people attacking vulnerable allies. In between using your defensive abilities, focus on AoE damage. Shield Spec has weak single-target damage, but we can put out a large amount of AoE pressure. You won't get many kills with this, but you'll really support your team by sapping enemy heals.

 

 

 

Now, here's a solid PvP tank build (it's what I use): 31/8/2. You'll notice that I get most of the shield upgrades. Most people will tell you that shields are nearly worthless in PvP. However, these are the same people that whine about how OP Snipers and Marauders are. With some decent shield upgrades, you get a massive defensive boost against Snipers, Marauders and Juggernauts, with a lesser bonus against Assassins, Operatives, Mercenaries and Powertechs. Also, this spec works great for PvE. It's only two points away from a full PvE spec (Defensive Measures to Ceramic Plating).

 

For gearing, click the link in my signature and click on the "Wish List" tab. My current gear is pretty bad (I got a lot of DPS gear before I became a tank), but my Wish List is pretty good. Basically, you want to build for really high endurance, as that's our most powerful PvP defensive upgrade. Get a little shield/absorb, but don't stack it extensively. I aimed for 25% crit, and then stacked power and surge. It's really not worth getting accuracy, in my opinion.

[Degato-Nafix]

Stat priority for PVP tank VG? Caps? Edited July 10, 2012 by Degato-Nafix

[Philosomanic]

Stat priority for PVP tank VG? Caps?

 

Well, armor value does you more good than anything else. However, that comes automatically as you gear, so it's not something you can really gear towards.

 

Your number one goal is endurance. It's a fairly useless stat for PvE tanking, but in PvP it's one of your biggest defensive boosts. My goal is to pass 20k endurance at minimum.

 

I'd recommend getting shield/absorb to around 35-40%, and defense to 5-10% (all including talents). That gives you some strong defensive boosts, especially against Snipers, Marauders, and Juggernauts, but still allow you to gear for plenty of damage.

 

After that, I'd push for at least 25% crit (unbuffed). Past 25% crit chance, I plan to stack power and surge. Accuracy is a low-priority stat. You may get it on some of your stuff, and that's okay, but if you get a chance to replace accuracy with anything else, I'd take it. You should never take any alacrity.

[AlyxDinas]

I'd like to offer a slightly different variation of 31/8/2 that's done me well. There's a bit more priority on increasing HiB's effectiveness in exchange for some of defensive talents. This is because I've found that stacks of Power Screen, the effect of Static Field and proper gear composition can generally account for the majority of deficiencies. If you want, you could potentially sub out Rebraced Armor for Brutal Impact and probably do fine as well but that's only if you want to play a bit more aggressively than most. I do prefer to spend points in Tactical Tools over Power Armor, however, because I find it offers more benefits from the increase rate of utility. I don't, however, worry as much about Containment Tactics.

 

In terms of stats, it's partially gear dependent (ie, how much you're going to be wearing C.Tech v Supercommando) but I place more premium on Power than Crit since, depending on how you gear out and talanet, there's ways to spec for individual bonuses to some of your most important skills. And if you manage to augment for your Aim stat, it will also affect Crit, Surge, and Tech Power. Endurance, obviously, is key as well but not too difficult to obtain.

[Philosomanic]

I'd like to offer a slightly different variation of 31/8/2 that's done me well. There's a bit more priority on increasing HiB's effectiveness in exchange for some of defensive talents. This is because I've found that stacks of Power Screen, the effect of Static Field and proper gear composition can generally account for the majority of deficiencies. If you want, you could potentially sub out Rebraced Armor for Brutal Impact and probably do fine as well but that's only if you want to play a bit more aggressively than most. I do prefer to spend points in Tactical Tools over Power Armor, however, because I find it offers more benefits from the increase rate of utility. I don't, however, worry as much about Containment Tactics.

 

In terms of stats, it's partially gear dependent (ie, how much you're going to be wearing C.Tech v Supercommando) but I place more premium on Power than Crit since, depending on how you gear out and talanet, there's ways to spec for individual bonuses to some of your most important skills. And if you manage to augment for your Aim stat, it will also affect Crit, Surge, and Tech Power. Endurance, obviously, is key as well but not too difficult to obtain.

 

That's also definitely viable. However, I have a few questions/comments about that.

 

I would strongly, strongly recommend against removing Rebraced Armor. I can understand the thought behind skipping bonuses to shield/absorb (although I don't agree; I like countering weapon-heavy DPS). However, Rebraced Armor is a defensive bonus that affects almost every attack we take. For me, it's a 2.3% increase in damage reduction. It would be a much better idea to drop one of the shield-related upgrades, like counterattack.

 

Also, if I were you, I'd drop one point in Counterattack in exchange for a second point in Shield Cycler. You'd lose 1% shield chance, but gain a 25% chance to gain one ammo when you shield an attack. It's a small defensive loss for a strong boost to resource regeneration.

 

The reason my build is a little more defense-heavy is that I'm also my guild's primary PvE tank. This spec is only three points away from what I would choose if I was building for pure PvE. I'd take points off of Defensive Measures and Neural Overload, and move them to Ceramic Plating and Steely Resolve. Since the difference is only 4% absorb and 3% aim, I can get away with not having to respec several times a week.

 

Also, you should use the Ask Mr. Robot skill tree tool. It does the same thing as TORHead, but it's not... broken.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Philosomanic

[LeggoMyMuoio]

If you're leveling a new Vanguard, Shield Spec is pretty fun and very viable (Storm and Harpoon are so fun in Huttball). If you're 50 already, you need to decide what role you really want to play. I was SS for a while but ended up realizing I was trying to play it as a DPS. 1v1 I could pretty much hold my own really well, but as stated above, if a healer is involved, forget about it. I was hard to kill, but there's times you just need to be able to kill something quickly.

 

I switched to Assault and regeared a bit and am pumping out some high numbers and can burst just about anyone down real quick with little to no damage to myself if I pop my cooldowns (which is great for solo capping). Without cooldowns though, just note that we're pretty darn squishy despite the heavy armor.

 

I haven't tried Tactics though, as far as I know though it's still pretty viable.

[AlyxDinas]

I would strongly, strongly recommend against removing Rebraced Armor. I can understand the thought behind skipping bonuses to shield/absorb (although I don't agree; I like countering weapon-heavy DPS). However, Rebraced Armor is a defensive bonus that affects almost every attack we take. For me, it's a 2.3% increase in damage reduction. It would be a much better idea to drop one of the shield-related upgrades, like counterattack.

 

I run with Rebraced Armor in my build, personally. The possible substitution was to place points in Brutal Impact since it synergies well with a fully talented Focused Impact. Which, although I don't necessarily recommend, can work well if you favor a slightly more offensive build. Given HiB's upwards priority in our rotation, it's a viable choice provided you're cognizant of positioning. It's not really something for node protectors to consider though. Rather, it's something to possibly consider if you run with a pocket healer and are highly mobile. You certainly could sub it in for another dropped talent if you like though.

 

Also, if I were you, I'd drop one point in Counterattack in exchange for a second point in Shield Cycler. You'd lose 1% shield chance, but gain a 25% chance to gain one ammo when you shield an attack. It's a small defensive loss for a strong boost to resource regeneration.

 

This presumes that I find myself at a dearth of resource. Which I never really do. And because there's too many mechanics that affect how often I can receive the benefit of a fully talented Shield Cycler, I'm unsold on it. Certainly, it's a viable change worth considering however. I'm just not entirely behind it. Ammo generation has never struck me as a problem.

 

The reason my build is a little more defense-heavy is that I'm also my guild's primary PvE tank. This spec is only three points away from what I would choose if I was building for pure PvE. I'd take points off of Defensive Measures and Neural Overload, and move them to Ceramic Plating and Steely Resolve. Since the difference is only 4% absorb and 3% aim, I can get away with not having to respec several times a week.

 

I can't say that I've seen any PvE problems with this build. LI HM, EC. I've never really ran into content that I've not been able to handle. As I mentioned briefly before, I've found it pretty easy to make up for lacking a skill like Ceramic Plating with proper gearing. In both a PvP context and PvE.

 

Also, you should use the Ask Mr. Robot skill tree tool. It does the same thing as TORHead, but it's not... broken.

 

I use the site for my combat parsing, which is few an far between. But because I'm relatively comfortable with my build, I don't really need to mess around with calculators much now. Not unless they alter mechanics again.

Edited July 11, 2012 by AlyxDinas