We need social features!

[Aowin]

MMORPGs are the ultimate game. They are more than just a game, but another world for players to immerse themselves into and become a part of something much greater and larger. They are not just about killing mobs, grinding gear, and killing enemy players. MMOs are about creating another world for the player to enjoy and to build their own experiences with friends and beyond. Having story, operations, flashpoints and warzones are great additions to the game and offer a lot to the player, but they are ultimately short term contributors.

 

What truly keeps a player tied to an MMORPG is not the raid the developers just released, but the experiences they share with others and the community they build. Community is the most important aspect of an MMORPG and any game developer that neglects this understanding is at risk of creating a game with short-term pull. I believe BioWare and SWTOR are currently in this category of building a fun online game, but not a long-term MMORPG. BioWare has access to arguably one of the greatest IPs in the world and is merely touching the tip of the ice berg of what could be possible in Star Wars.

 

Players want dejarik, swoop racing, planet sieges, geonosian arenas, atmospheric flight, player housing, living worlds that aren't just questing zones, swimming, sitting, chat bubbles, etc. The list goes on and on because SWTOR is a good game, but it is not a good MMORPG. Once a player gets to 50 and plays through all the stories, what is there to do? You can only run every operation and queue for warzones so many times before you burn yourself out. We need "fluff," social features, other activities to keep us engaged and occupied in the game.

 

People really enjoy the game, but if you don't give them incentives to stay, they will just leave and move on to the next MMO that will give them incentives. I don't believe it's too late for SWTOR, but I believe BioWare needs to recognize this game is seriously lacking in areas and show that they are willing to rectify this.

Here is a really good article in regards to this topic.

 

I was able to play Star Wars Galaxies for six straight years without any big patch updates or expansions and the game was able to keep my attention solely because of the community and what we could do. I'm not asking for a full-blown sandbox MMO, but I am asking that BioWare consider that MMOs are the most dynamic and organic games in the industry. If you expect to have a community to thrive and grow for the next decade, you better make sure you give them the tools and features to keep themselves busy and happy when they don't want to raid or PvP.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Aowin

[Overlord_Baal]

Really well written and I totally agree. This expresses most of my thoughts on what this game needs and what I personally would like to see. I want stuff in this game that I can just screw around with just for the fun of it. Something that is not based solely on getting gear. Right now everything in this game is for gear in one way or another with the exception of datacrons. I love the whole datacron feature but we need more things that don't revolve around one single objective. I want to do something in the game because its a whole lot of fun not because if I continue doing it over and over Ill get a new piece of gear that gives me a slight upgrade in stats.

[Darth_Halford]

Just for the sake of contrast: people DO play MMO's just for the raid encounters or the like.

 

Look at World of Warcraft. It doesn't have anything approaching these "Social" features. Its community is crap to be honest, and they are continuously adding new mechanics and features to make the need of a strong community obsolete. You can play an MMO now the same way you can play Call of Duty, and its maintained its #1 position in the genre for over a decade now.

 

I love community, I hate being in guilds where one half never shows up and the other half never talks (which is most guilds in WoW) and various things that remove the human element, but it is worth noting that clearly what you're suggesting isn't as necessary as you imply.

 

SWG had a great community. Some people have said that was the only really good thing the game had going for it. A large part of that community actually came from pure dedication to the franchise and the game rather than any of the social features that were inside it. You never hear of "casual SWG players". It was a game of die-hards, and TOR doesn't have that mindset.

[Aowin]

Just for the sake of contrast: people DO play MMO's just for the raid encounters or the like.

 

Look at World of Warcraft. It doesn't have anything approaching these "Social" features. Its community is crap to be honest, and they are continuously adding new mechanics and features to make the need of a strong community obsolete. You can play an MMO now the same way you can play Call of Duty, and its maintained its #1 position in the genre for over a decade now.

 

I love community, I hate being in guilds where one half never shows up and the other half never talks (which is most guilds in WoW) and various things that remove the human element, but it is worth noting that clearly what you're suggesting isn't as necessary as you imply.

 

SWG had a great community. Some people have said that was the only really good thing the game had going for it. A large part of that community actually came from pure dedication to the franchise and the game rather than any of the social features that were inside it. You never hear of "casual SWG players". It was a game of die-hards, and TOR doesn't have that mindset.

 

WoW is honestly more of an exception to the rule than anything else. It was released at a time when competition was relatively low and the MMO community was much smaller and more niche. It received such huge success because the game was based off an established IP, it was casual-friendly, and it tweaked and refined MMO features to make a good game. Blizzard was lucky they struck lightning, but the MMO industry is different now.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of raiding and battlegrounds. You, however, cannot tell me those few features alone are able to sustain a game for a long period. I never personally played WoW, but I'm positive the game has more to offer players than just raiding and battlegrounds. If it doesn't, then I'm glad I never picked up the game and wasted my time. The more variety and options you have in the game, the better.

 

I'm not sure if you ever played SWG, but it was known for much more than just its community. It arguably to this day still has the most in-depth crafting system out there, one of the best systems for profession customization, and the entire game was completely player-driven. Regardless, I'm not suggesting BioWare to make a sandbox. What I am suggesting is for BioWare to give us options and reasons to play the game besides what they already offer, which isn't much.

 

Maybe it's just me, but SWTOR doesn't even feel like an MMORPG should. An MMORPG, at least in my opinion, is a game that is supposed to keep you hooked for many years and honestly I find myself bored with the game because I have exhausted all the content it has to offer. There are no systems or features giving me incentives and reasons to stay, and I believe that is poor game development. Any MMO that relies solely on new operations, warzones, and stories to be released (which will inevitably be buggy) for longevity is suffering from a lack of understanding.

 

Perhaps you are right and SWTOR is just following suit behind what WoW did. If that's the case, this game may not fully develop for quite a few years and by then it could be too late. This talk of BioWare considering a F2P model is even more disturbing for SWTOR as it would completely ruin the game in my personal opinion. If MMOs have been degenerated to the status of Call of Duty titles that never end and milk your money when they release new content, then I have no interest.

 

Such a model seems more in line with a F2P MMO like Guild Wars 2, which is a game that will likely have no longevity. I'll stick with this game for now, but if BioWare doesn't figure out the game needs to offer players more than just a new operation and warzone every few months, I'll likely be moving to ESO. Lets hope BioWare gets their act together as many of the features I have listed the community has been asking for since the game was announced. It's time for them to turn that "Wall of Crazy" into a wall of reality.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Aowin

[Darth_Halford]

I'm not sure if you ever played SWG, but it was known for much more than just its community. It arguably to this day still has the most in-depth crafting system out there, one of the best systems for profession customization, and the entire game was completely player-driven.

Which goes back to what I was saying about a game of die-hards. For a lot of people (I would dare to even say most of them) the SWG crafting system was maddeningly and needlessly complex. There were people who were masters of crafting that had played since day 1 and still didn't know all of the various intracacies of the system.

For people like yourself, who look at MMO's as an alternative reality or something approaching it, that has great appeal. For people like myself who want to get in and have their fun without learning a second job, it's frustrating, and that's why SWG has such a polarized view.

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but SWTOR doesn't even feel like an MMORPG should. An MMORPG, at least in my opinion, is a game that is supposed to keep you hooked for many years and honestly I find myself bored with the game because I have exhausted all the content it has to offer. There are no systems or features giving me incentives and reasons to stay, and I believe that is poor game development. Any MMO that relies solely on new operations, warzones, and stories to be released (which will inevitably be buggy) for longevity is suffering from a lack of understanding.

The problem with that statement is that is how nearly all MMO's operate, particularly more "themepark" ones, which is the norm nowadays.

[Aowin]

Which goes back to what I was saying about a game of die-hards. For a lot of people (I would dare to even say most of them) the SWG crafting system was maddeningly and needlessly complex. There were people who were masters of crafting that had played since day 1 and still didn't know all of the various intracacies of the system.

For people like yourself, who look at MMO's as an alternative reality or something approaching it, that has great appeal. For people like myself who want to get in and have their fun without learning a second job, it's frustrating, and that's why SWG has such a polarized view.

 

 

The problem with that statement is that is how nearly all MMO's operate, particularly more "themepark" ones, which is the norm nowadays.

 

This topic isn't about sandbox vs themepark. SWTOR will never be a sandbox and anyone who is foolish to believe it has any elements of a sandbox is kidding themselves. What I am asking for are features such as pazaak, swoop racing, gambling, etc. that would be great mini-games and would bring hundreds of hours of enjoyment to players. This is Star Wars and I expect to feel immersed in the Star Wars Universe. I have no interest in paying a monthly fee for a game that has nothing to offer outside of three features they update every six months.

 

That is truly sad then as MMORPGs were built off the "die-hards" and the tabletop RPG players. The entire industry has been hijacked by an unruly and massive casual base with promises of profits and riches beyond developer's dreams. MMOs were special because they weren't just games, but something much more. Now they have been reduced to nothing but casual themeparks with e-sports and cosmetic items to decorate avatars.

[Darth_Halford]

This topic isn't about sandbox vs themepark. SWTOR will never be a sandbox and anyone who is foolish to believe it has any elements of a sandbox is kidding themselves. What I am asking for are features such as pazaak, swoop racing, gambling, etc. that would be great mini-games and would bring hundreds of hours of enjoyment to players. This is Star Wars and I expect to feel immersed in the Star Wars Universe. I have no interest in paying a monthly fee for a game that has nothing to offer outside of three features they update every six months.

How long is that REALLY going to keep you engaged?

How often do you play solitaire or blackjack on your computer? How much appeal is there nowadays for racing games that aren't full-on driving sims like Forza Motorsports?

Maybe it's just me and how I think, but I really doubt there's "hundreds of hours" of enjoyment for players. Regardless of the appeal or the immersion factor, Pazzak, Sabacc or any other kind of gambling isn't going to fly because of online anti-gambling laws, which in some states forbid it alltogether, even if there's no monetary gain.

 

I do think it's so strange that these features have been request alot lately within the last few weeks in terms of "Immersion into Star Wars", when they were absolutly minor or nonexistant parts in the overall franchise. Nobody gambled in the actual movies. Pazzak and swoop racing was nothing more than a short distraction.

 

That is truly sad then as MMORPGs were built off the "die-hards" and the tabletop RPG players. The entire industry has been hijacked by an unruly and massive casual base with promises of profits and riches beyond developer's dreams. MMOs were special because they weren't just games, but something much more. Now they have been reduced to nothing but casual themeparks with e-sports and cosmetic items to decorate avatars.

That's history for you man. This same process has happened with every form of media, nearly every technological advancement, and in some cases entire industries (such as the automotives). The early adopters experience a great deal of freedom, customization, and creativity as everyone collectivly tries to figure out what can be done with it, what's feasible, where the limits are, and so on. In the case of mass media, like genres of music or video games, it often involves trying to determine a sense of identity. As the product becomes more refined and improved, it's made less complex and therefore more accessible to the mass market.

You really can't hold it against a developer, or any kind of company, for trying to make more money, because that's the whole reason the company exists.

[Aowin]

How long is that REALLY going to keep you engaged?

How often do you play solitaire or blackjack on your computer? How much appeal is there nowadays for racing games that aren't full-on driving sims like Forza Motorsports?

Maybe it's just me and how I think, but I really doubt there's "hundreds of hours" of enjoyment for players. Regardless of the appeal or the immersion factor, Pazzak, Sabacc or any other kind of gambling isn't going to fly because of online anti-gambling laws, which in some states forbid it alltogether, even if there's no monetary gain.

 

I do think it's so strange that these features have been request alot lately within the last few weeks in terms of "Immersion into Star Wars", when they were absolutly minor or nonexistant parts in the overall franchise. Nobody gambled in the actual movies. Pazzak and swoop racing was nothing more than a short distraction.

 

That's history for you man. This same process has happened with every form of media, nearly every technological advancement, and in some cases entire industries (such as the automotives). The early adopters experience a great deal of freedom, customization, and creativity as everyone collectivly tries to figure out what can be done with it, what's feasible, where the limits are, and so on. In the case of mass media, like genres of music or video games, it often involves trying to determine a sense of identity. As the product becomes more refined and improved, it's made less complex and therefore more accessible to the mass market.

You really can't hold it against a developer, or any kind of company, for trying to make more money, because that's the whole reason the company exists.

 

For eight years straight I knew players in SWG that did nothing but dance in a cantina or craft items. If BioWare gives us the tools to create our own fun and enjoyment through a variety of mini-games, that could bring more hours of enjoyment than you may think.

 

Money is clearly a constant in every game developer, but some are much better than others. Bethesda Game Studios is easily one of the best in the business and it's because of how they make their games. They don't go into their office thinking what kind of game is going to make them the most money. They go into their office thinking what kind of game would be fun to play. This is a large reason to why they have made a GotY title since Morrowind in 2002 and continue to be a pioneer and innovator in the industry.

 

You don't get anywhere in any business without being ambitious and trying to make the best product on the market. There are plenty of MMOs out there that are mediocre but very few that are actually worth playing. Sooner or later, one game developer will take advantage of that fact and they will reap the benefits while others continue to chase dollars in dead-ends.

[Darth_Halford]

For eight years straight I knew players in SWG that did nothing but dance in a cantina or craft items. If BioWare gives us the tools to create our own fun and enjoyment through a variety of mini-games, that could bring more hours of enjoyment than you may think.

But can you reasonably expect that a large ammount of people are going to behave like that? I don't. Certainly not in the kind of numbers Bioware needs. This once again goes back to what I said about Galaxies, die-hards, and a polarized view. Yes there were players who enjoyed some of the features that game had, and there are alot of people who are deathly loyal to SWG. However, there weren't enough of them to remain profitable, as the former design lead of SWG has attested.

 

Money is clearly a constant in every game developer, but some are much better than others. Bethesda Game Studios is easily one of the best in the business and it's because of how they make their games. They don't go into their office thinking what kind of game is going to make them the most money. They go into their office thinking what kind of game would be fun to play. This is a large reason to why they have made a GotY title since Morrowind in 2002 and continue to be a pioneer and innovator in the industry.

I think that's being a bit naive. Bethesda (and every other company) is interested in making the game that's going to be the most appealing to the most ammount of people. Bethesda makes better games, no doubt about it, but it isn't because of a different design strategy.

 

You don't get anywhere in any business without being ambitious and trying to make the best product on the market. There are plenty of MMOs out there that are mediocre but very few that are actually worth playing. Sooner or later, one game developer will take advantage of that fact and they will reap the benefits while others continue to chase dollars in dead-ends.

The only reason you try to make the best product is because you're chasing dollars, just like everyone else. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but there seems to be this underlying idea that a company needs to be more interested in the product than the profit, and that's never going to happen.

[Hambunctious]

OP, you're going to get flooded with naysaying posts against adding anything not to do with raiding. Unfortunately, many people can't handle having extra things in game that might be fun for someone besides themselves.

 

As for me, I want a world in which to play, not just a game. What SWTOR offers right now isn't enough.

[Aowin]

OP, you're going to get flooded with naysaying posts against adding anything not to do with raiding. Unfortunately, many people can't handle having extra things in game that might be fun for someone besides themselves.

 

As for me, I want a world in which to play, not just a game. What SWTOR offers right now isn't enough.

 

Perhaps. I agree with you fully and if our views are that of the minority, then I guess I'll just need to wait for a game that is more liking to my personal taste.

[Aowin]

But can you reasonably expect that a large ammount of people are going to behave like that? I don't. Certainly not in the kind of numbers Bioware needs. This once again goes back to what I said about Galaxies, die-hards, and a polarized view. Yes there were players who enjoyed some of the features that game had, and there are alot of people who are deathly loyal to SWG. However, there weren't enough of them to remain profitable, as the former design lead of SWG has attested.

 

I think that's being a bit naive. Bethesda (and every other company) is interested in making the game that's going to be the most appealing to the most ammount of people. Bethesda makes better games, no doubt about it, but it isn't because of a different design strategy.

 

The only reason you try to make the best product is because you're chasing dollars, just like everyone else. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but there seems to be this underlying idea that a company needs to be more interested in the product than the profit, and that's never going to happen.

 

I'm merely making an example that players do enjoy other things besides raiding and PvP all the time. I can play Halo or Battlefield 3 if all I want to do is PvP all day. MMORPGs have much more depth than that. At least they used to...

 

Actually, I believe their strategy is a big part of why they are different. Most game developers make mediocre game that produce mediocre sales. It's only the select few such as BGS that actually make games that continuously break new records and continue pushing the industry forward. All these game developers have very talented employees that work for them. It's how they use that talent that differentiates these studios from one another.

 

I'm just trying to make a point that making video games isn't quite as black and white as you make it out to be. Perhaps that is the case for 3rd party publishers such as Sony Online Entertainment, Activision, and EA, but many game developers, while the money is important, really just want to make an enjoyable game.

 

Either way this is getting off-topic. You either agree that the game is in serious need of social features or you disagree and are content with how the game currently is. For me, and I'm sure there are many others out there, this simply is not enough. Once the next big MMO comes along, there won't be much keeping players tied to this game if BioWare doesn't give the community more reason to stay.

[Darth_Halford]

Actually, I believe their strategy is a big part of why they are different. Most game developers make mediocre game that produce mediocre sales. It's only the select few such as BGS that actually make games that continuously break new records and continue pushing the industry forward. All these game developers have very talented employees that work for them. It's how they use that talent that differentiates these studios from one another.

It's actually planned risk at the hands of the publishers. In fact, 10% of the games made only turn a profit, but those games that do usually make up the difference of the other 90%. Knowing this, publishers intentionally have "Game of the Year" titles that they know that will sell well, and the rest are more or less gambles (like Rage, published last year).

 

Either way this is getting off-topic. You either agree that the game is in serious need of social features or you disagree and are content with how the game currently is. For me, and I'm sure there are many others out there, this simply is not enough. Once the next big MMO comes along, there won't be much keeping players tied to this game if BioWare doesn't give the community more reason to stay.

Personally, I think more social features would be welcome. It would be a cute little distraction for me more than anything major. However, I think the idea that these features are "Necessary" is incorrect, which was the point I tried to get across originally.

[PiMD]

The Encyclopedia Britannica Post