americanaussie Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hey all. I'm returning back to my lvl 50 bounty hunter after playing some other classes and was wondering what a good PVP spec is for the mercs? I had all of my skill points refunded (uh yay I guess) so I thought I might as well figure out what build is good for PVP. And I'd love the suggestions on ability rotation that are the most effective in the warzones. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azareal Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Depends on what you want. Do you want to be a healer or DPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullysmith Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Anything but Arsenal for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choffware Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Anything but Arsenal for pvp. Well I'm going to disagree. I know I'm in the minority but I really like arsenal pvp post 1.3. I've tried both and pyro is still more mobile and does slightly better sustained dps (because you have to keep moving in pvp). But I find arsenal much better now and has better burst dps. If you can stay on your feet and play like a hit and fade sniper... You can really take out targets much quicker because of the burst. Pyro is also better at 1v1 ( although I think they both are hard) because you can do much more damage as you kite.. where as arsenal you have to run and reestablish your position. I think 1.3 has made arsenal viable and it plays much better to my play style... But I would try both before you dismiss it Edited July 2, 2012 by Choffware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azhrione Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well I'm going to disagree. I know I'm in the minority but I really like arsenal pvp post 1.3. I've tried both and pyro is still more mobile and does slightly better sustained dps (because you have to keep moving in pvp). But I find arsenal much better now and has better burst dps. If you can stay on your feet and play like a hit and fade sniper... You can really take out targets much quicker because of the burst. Pyro is also better at 1v1 ( although I think they both are hard) because you can do much more damage as you kite.. where as arsenal you have to run and reestablish your position. I think 1.3 has made arsenal viable and it plays much better to my play style... But I would try both before you dismiss it Until something can protect you from lockout interrupts Arsenal is not viable in any serious pvp capacity. In Ranked WZs, a Sage or GS will be assigned to keep your TM on perma cooldown and you'll spend a whole lot of time being ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choffware Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Until something can protect you from lockout interrupts Arsenal is not viable in any serious pvp capacity. In Ranked WZs, a Sage or GS will be assigned to keep your TM on perma cooldown and you'll spend a whole lot of time being ignored. Well I don't buy that... it seems very overstated. For sorc jolt has a 4 second lock out and 12 second cool down so they can lock out one TM every 12 seconds I'm assuming the sage ability is the same. Plus doesn't pyro have the same problem with unload and power shot, it's two main attacks? Plus If you are standing LOS of a so called interrupt spam that would be stupid. interrupts are a big problem for both specs but it hardly renders you useless Edited July 3, 2012 by Choffware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azhrione Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Well I don't buy that... it seems very overstated. For sorc jolt has a 4 second lock out and 12 second cool down so they can lock out one TM every 12 seconds I'm assuming the sage ability is the same. Plus doesn't pyro have the same problem with unload and power shot, it's two main attacks? Plus If you are standing LOS of a so called interrupt spam that would be stupid. interrupts are a big problem for both specs but it hardly renders you useless Because everything that Arsenal does is tied to spamming TM. A four second lockout is enough to invalidate you for whatever time it takes for them to take you out or to prevent you from doing your job in whatever map you are in. Since every class but Merc/Commando has an interrupt they can just take turns which I have seen done with my own team before. We call out the Merc Interrupt Order just for fun against bads in RWZ who insist on bringing an Arsenal, then take turns interrupting them. Sure you can make it work in a stellar team if you are at the absolute top of your game, with the best gear, and have a team willing to carry you, but the best you can hope for is that you will not hurt the team. As for Pyro things work a little differently since about 30-40% of our damage in WZ is burns. Not to mention if Unload is going to proc Rail Shot it does it at activation, not completion, meaning if Unload gets interrupted we still get our free Rail Shot. Losing Power Shot to an interrupt is annoying, but it is at the bottom end of our priority rotation. An Arsenal Rotation would look like this: Is Unload on cooldown? No, Unload. Yes? Does target have five stacks of Heat Signature? No, TM. Yes? Is HSM on cooldown? No, HSM. Yes? Do you have five stacks of Target Lock? No, TM. Yes? Is Rail Shot on cooldown? No, Rail Shot. Yes? Are you at 50 heat or less? No, Rapid Shots. Yes? TM This is how Pyro looks: Is the target burning? No, Incendiary Missile. Yes? Is Rail Shot on cooldown? No, Rail Shot. Yes? Is TD on cooldown? No, TD. Yes? Is Unload on Cooldown? No, Unload and cancel if Rail Shot procs. Yes? Are you at 50 heat or less? No, Rapid Shots. Yes? Can you stand still for a GCD? No, Rapid Shots. Yes? Power Shot. You can see the problem that Arsenal has here, if TM ever goes on cooldown, their priority rotation is screwed. If Power Shot goes on cooldown, it is annoying but it is only used at the bottom of the priority list. I need to make up some flow charts for this to explain it better. Edited July 3, 2012 by azhrione Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Depends on what you want. Do you want to be a healer or DPS? I have tried the healing but I've found that in many PVP situations it feels like the moment I start healing, I get a big target over my head and then I'm spammed stunned and destroyed before I can blink an eye. Maybe that's just me though. lol. I'm looking for a good (preferably dps build) that I can have a little fun with in PVP. I've had a PVE healer build and a PVE pyro build. I did enjoy the pyro, so I guess it comes down to the age old question pyro vs arsenal. It sounds like most agree pyro is the way to go. I wish I could find my saved pyro build so that I could readd the points. Anyone have a PVP pyro merc build that works well for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choffware Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Because everything that Arsenal does is tied to spamming TM. Is Unload on cooldown? No, Unload. Yes? Does target have five stacks of Heat Signature? No, TM. Yes? Is HSM on cooldown? No, HSM. Yes? Do you have five stacks of Target Lock? No, TM. Yes? Is Rail Shot on cooldown? No, Rail Shot. Yes? Are you at 50 heat or less? No, Rapid Shots. Yes? TM This is how Pyro looks: Is the target burning? No, Incendiary Missile. Yes? Is Rail Shot on cooldown? No, Rail Shot. Yes? Is TD on cooldown? No, TD. Yes? Is Unload on Cooldown? No, Unload and cancel if Rail Shot procs. Yes? Are you at 50 heat or less? No, Rapid Shots. Yes? Can you stand still for a GCD? No, Rapid Shots. Yes? Power Shot. /QUOTE] Have your played arsenal since 1.3? They changed the spec so there is always the same amount of heat sig and target lock when a TM hits and the only time TL is not the same as Heat sig is when you fire rail shot at the end of the rotation. Plus to get 4 heat sig and target locks you need only 2 TMs and 3 to get the max. 4 Heat sigs and TLs combined with a HSM Railshot and sticky bomb (if you are managing heat properly) still does a lot of burst in a short time. The spec is much less dependent on spam and you can move around a lot more. It's not as mobile as pyro but the burst is much better. Plus I wouldn't use Unload as an opener. I'd use it on proc to increase the burst. So an un-interrupted rotation is more like this. If the target is 100% health: Fusion Missile on cooldown? No, Fusion Missile (might want to use Power surge but sometimes I save it if I have the time to cast) If barrage procs at any time fire Unload if not on proc: ---> TM x2 if TSO on cooldown no? fire it and Sticky Bomb TM, HSM Rail shot (This is where the huge burst damage comes in) If target not dead use rapid shot to finish it if heat is high just start TMs again. But now you can keep the heat sigs up with just one TM. so as soon as HSM is up you can fire it again. If the target is not full health I usually only need to start at 2TMs HSM railshot. (again unload if proced) Your priority was based more on 1.2. Because it's very rare you're going to have a time where you have more heat sigs than TLs on a target now. And that TMs are now less important because they stack 2 per hit. Heck... some times I OPEN with HSM then rail Railshot if the target is 33% and it's vulnerable to RS. Then start the TMs... a lot of times I don't get to the TMs. I can tell you're very knowledgable about the pyro spec and a seem to be a solid pvp'er so I don't want to drag this out. All I'm saying is that arsenal is lot better 1.3 and much closer to pyro now and in some limited situations (specifically burst damage) I think it's superior. Edited July 3, 2012 by Choffware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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