Vigilance Changes for 1.3 What???

[myrrhbear]

"Vigilance

 

Single Saber Mastery now applies different effects based on your current Form. Shii-Cho Form now increases all Force damage dealt by 2% per point. Shien Form now increases all melee damage dealt by 2% per point. Soresu Form now increases melee and ranged defense by 1% per point and increases the threat generated by Force Sweep and Cyclone Slash by 10% per point."

 

That's the whole entry for us. : P http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=463539

 

Errrrm... Shien form is part of the Vigilance line, and Single Saber Mastery already gives 2% to melee damage per point.

 

So... There's no change for Vigilance spec at all... unless you decide to go Shii-Cho form despite that not being part of the Vigilance line. It's part of the Focus line. And you'll lose 3% damage as well : P

 

There was supposed to be NO hybrid-tax in this game, but it turned out that other classes (Sentinel, Sage, Gunslinger etc...) can produce significantly higher DPS it seems. I wish there was a disclaimer before I put all my time and money into leveling a DPS Vigilance Guardian, that we would provide poor DPS compared to other classes. I never would have picked it.

 

We seem to be so far below others in our average DPS contribution (assuming equal gear and skill) and these patch notes don't seem to reflect any awareness of the issue at all. I really hope it gets addressed. It wont help that instead of numbers and careful testing lots of players will reply to posts like this saying "were fine", or "I really like Guardian" I like Guardian too, which is why I want to see our DPS brought in line with what other classes can contribute.

 

Even better, I hope a Developer will pop in here to say they recognize and acknowledge that there is a notable lack to Vigilance Guardian DPS, and work is being done to bring us up to par.

 

If anyone working on this does do some testing, keep in mind that you need to take into account all the time and DPS lost while we run over to the next target, where ranged DPS are already smashing it. This really adds up.

Edited June 8, 2012 by myrrhbear

[Jageera]

"Vigilance

 

Single Saber Mastery now applies different effects based on your current Form. Shii-Cho Form now increases all Force damage dealt by 2% per point. Shien Form now increases all melee damage dealt by 2% per point. Soresu Form now increases melee and ranged defense by 1% per point and increases the threat generated by Force Sweep and Cyclone Slash by 10% per point."

 

That's the whole entry for us. : P http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=463539

 

Errrrm... Shien form is part of the Vigilance line, and Single Saber Mastery already gives 2% to melee damage per point.

 

So... There's no change for Vigilance spec at all... unless you decide to go Shii-Cho form despite that not being part of the Vigilance line. It's part of the Focus line. And you'll lose 3% damage as well : P

Any changes to the bottom two tiers in any tree is more of a change to the Guardian class as a whole than any one spec.

 

And while plenty of us are with you in the same boat in being disappointed in our subpar DPS compared to every other AC in the game, there's no shortage of threads about this very topic. What this new thread necessary?

[myrrhbear]

Why do people put each other down so much : P I created this thread because I spoke with someone at Bioware who repeatedly encouraged me to post on the forums, and when discussing Vig Guardian DpS asked if I had read the patch notes for 1.3 Obviously, the patch notes for 1.3 regarding Vigilance don't help us at all, since we're staying exactly the same unless you use the stance from Focus while in Vig.

 

I had not seen other threads on this segment of the patch notes, but since I was asked about this, I posted it here.

[Srozziks]

I honestly don't think all classes should be lined up perfectly with DPS. That would make it so it didn't matter what class you chose because they would all be the same. Sentinels have two sabers and Guardians have one, therefore, Sentinels should put out more DPS, period. I don't have a Guardian so I can't speak from personal experience of playing the class, but playing against the class, they seem to do fine. What they lack in DPS they make up for in Defensive abilities. PvP isn't about getting the most damage or whatever, it's about winning the game.

 

I'm going to be a little bias here and say if all you are worried about is damage, roll as a slinger or scoundrel. Because they pump out damage and have a trillion different stuns so you'll never die.

[applekirks]

I honestly don't think all classes should be lined up perfectly with DPS. That would make it so it didn't matter what class you chose because they would all be the same. Sentinels have two sabers and Guardians have one, therefore, Sentinels should put out more DPS, period. I don't have a Guardian so I can't speak from personal experience of playing the class, but playing against the class, they seem to do fine. What they lack in DPS they make up for in Defensive abilities. PvP isn't about getting the most damage or whatever, it's about winning the game.

 

I'm going to be a little bias here and say if all you are worried about is damage, roll as a slinger or scoundrel. Because they pump out damage and have a trillion different stuns so you'll never die.

 

Actually sentinels have better on demand survivability- Force camo/ Cloak/saberward/undying rage/self heal on crit dots

 

Guardian-saberward/Enrage defense

 

The difference in medium and heavy armour is 5% mitigation in total.

Not to mention sentinel does an much more damage than vigilance guardian.

 

Not to mention in 1.3 our tank tree damage is getting nerfed pretty hard. (kinda useless to play it in pvp)

 

As tho if guardians want to spec dps? -reroll sentinel

[Sorotia]

Actually sentinels have better on demand survivability- Force camo/ Cloak/saberward/undying rage/self heal on crit dots

 

Guardian-saberward/Enrage defense

 

The difference in medium and heavy armour is 5% mitigation in total.

Not to mention sentinel does an much more damage than vigilance guardian.

 

Not to mention in 1.3 our tank tree damage is getting nerfed pretty hard. (kinda useless to play it in pvp)

 

As tho if guardians want to spec dps? -reroll sentinel

 

Kinda sad about the whole thing, I was building up a guardian to play a bit of a tank in pvp, basically got nerfed to hell. Get less damage and same survivability with a higher cost...in exchange for more threat.....completely got shafted and means I'm going to respec unless things really get changed.

[GarfieldJL]

The DPS issue wouldn't be as big of a deal if it weren't for the fact we honestly have the least survivability when we go DPS.

 

Ranged does more damage, okay fine... However that should be countered with us having more survival features. A ranged DPS can sit off at a distance and shoot away, but we have to get into close range combat, meaning from a PvE standpoint we're gonna get hit with stuff that a Ranged DPS can simply avoid. Yet the Ranged DPSers have more survival perks than we do.

 

Sentinels have the ability to avoid kiting, we can and often are kited.

 

For all the tank Shadows are whining, they have significantly better elemental resistance than we do.

 

While Vigilence does work, it doesn't work nearly as well as it should. The Tank tree is a total disaster, and Bioware is trying to nerf us more...

[Darkshadz]

Stop comparing us with an OP class (marauder). BW needs to nerf their survivability but so far, they aren't doing it. There's nothing wrong with their damage since it's a pure DPS class.

[myrrhbear]

According to Bioware, this game was not supposed to have "pure DPS classes" and "hybrid classes". Each class was supposed to have a skill tree that is a DPS tree, and within that spec be second to none in DPS.

 

Other games have classes split so your class is strictly a tank or healer or DPS, or hybrid; and if you go hybrid you are mediocre in a couple of roles instead of great in one.

 

In SWTOR you can spec within your class as DPS or tank or heals, but there are supposed to be no hybrid classes, with accompanying hybrid taxes, and no "this is a pure DPS class, and that one isn't".

 

Had they wanted to follow the model of other games with some pure classes and some hybrid, that could be fine too, but then you have to have honest advertising, and under class description it should say so. Obviously it's not cool to say there is no hybrid tax though when actually there is.

 

And the ironic part / kick you when you're down is: Sentinel/Marauder is not only better in DPS, but also better in survivability it seems.

[myrrhbear]

The issue mentioned above about ranged vs. melee and survivability is a whole other issue I think SWTOR needs addressed big time. The way it's set up right now people favor ranged classes for Ops in general because it's harder to keep melee peeps up, and healers don't like it.

 

I really prefer the way Bioware said this game was going to be: all Classes within their own DPS build being about equal, and there being no hybrid tax.

 

When you get into saying melee should do less damage than ranged and melee should have more survivability, you are talking about the model other games have used, but which SWTOR explicitly said it wasn't going to use.

 

Personally, I want to see DPS on my Vigilance Guardian be as good as on any other Class, and I really don't want to trade off DPS for survivability. In order for this to work though, damage from attackers needs to be evenly spread among ranged and melee, otherwise you get into the above problem of it making more sense to just bring ranged people.

[JamieKirby]

Another issue that could be a problem is that ranged weapons in general do more damage then melee weapons (lightsabers included) and the double-bladed lightsaber does more damage then a standard lightsaber, so i am thinking guardians would have some sharper teeth if they increased lightsaber damage done by them to rival the double-bladed lightsabers and ranged weapons of the other classes.

 

I have checked, on my jedi guardian, my lightsaber has a hilt that gives it a damage rating of 46 and does roughly 105-130 or something like that, while my companion Kira has a double-bladed lightsaber with the same level hilt (though willpower based instead of strength for obvious reasons) and it has the same damage rating, but she does roughly 125-170 damage.

 

Its not balanced for a single lightsaber, that needs to be fixed.

[Huggsnotdruggs]

"Even better, I hope a Developer will pop in here to say they recognize and acknowledge that there is a notable lack to Vigilance Guardian DPS, and work is being done to bring us up to par. "

 

Working as intended. We do not see a lack of anything. Carry on now.

[Dracosz]

"Even better, I hope a Developer will pop in here to say they recognize and acknowledge that there is a notable lack to Vigilance Guardian DPS, and work is being done to bring us up to par. "

 

Working as intended. We do not see a lack of anything. Carry on now.

 

Because there is no lack of DPS... we're one of the top DPS classes if we have gear. We are VERY much so dependent upon having it.

[Marqhill]

Is this about PvP or PvE for Vigilance DPS? PvP there is no issue. PvE I have no idea because I really don't do it that often.