Vanguard 1.3 Changes

[Philosomanic]

Vanguard

• Pulse Generator now only affects Pulse Cannon, as described.
  
• Ion Cell now generates 100% additional threat while active.
  

 

Shield Specialist

• Supercharged Ion Cell now increases Ion Overload damage by 25%. While Ion Cell is active, High Impact Bolt triggers your Ion Cell on the target and up to 4 additional nearby targets. This damage does not affect sleeping, lifted, or incapacitated enemies. This generates a high amount of threat.
  
• Static Shield: The critical chance bonus applied to Stockstrike and Explosive Surge has been reduced to 8% per point.
  
• Static Surge now increases the damage dealt by Explosive Surge by 6% per point and causes Storm to grant 1 charge of Static Surge per point, which makes the next Explosive Surge free of cost. This skill now requires Storm instead of Static Shield.

Source.

 

 

I have mixed feelings about this. It gives us a ton more AoE damage (which is great!). However, our single-target damage while using Ion Cell has been horribly cut. Stockstrike is down from +30% Critical chance and damage to +16% crit chance. These things will make me much happier if they fix the damage on Ion Cell. Having HiB do ~700 energy to four targets will be great, but the 250 Ion Cell currently does will be lackluster at best. I do like having free Explosive Surges. That will really help with ammo management, and we can keep up a pretty awesome stream of AoE now.

 

This is clearly a great thing for PvE. When tanking PvE, your single-target damage isn't nearly as important as your ability to hold aggro, and our threat generation (especially AoE) has skyrocketed. I'm already drooling at the huge AoE we'll get, especially with an initial rotation. Having a big part of our AoE rotation based on our leap is a bit clunky, though.

 

For PvP, I'm unsure about how I feel. On the one hand, our single-target damage, especially burst, is taking a pretty big hit. 20-25% of our single-target damage (by my parses) comes from Stockstrike, which has lost 14% crit chance and 30% crit multiplier. However, our AoE damage has gone up a lot (especially because I'm Storming all over the place in PvP). So we have even less single-target damage, but we're a significantly stronger pressure DPS. I guess this is appropriate for a support role. We'll have to see how this actually plays.

 

Assault is unchanged.

 

Tactics is (potentially) getting shafted pretty hard. Currently, the only thing that made up for Pulse Generator's slow being broken was that it boosts other AoE skills. This isn't the best-case scenario, but it was enough of a tradeoff that Tactics was still strong. If they're getting rid of the positive glitch, but not fixing the slow, then Tactics is going to be hurting.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Philosomanic

[Avicii]

Agree with pretty much your thoughts, I really hope the slow is fixed for tactics.

[GaiusAudax]

I'm pretty unhappy about the nerf to Stockstrike damage. That was the one thing that really gave Shield Specialist any serious damage output. I think I can understand why it got nerfed, however; as has already been mentioned, it accounted for around 25% of our DPS. That's probably a bit excessive for one ability. However, a Shield Specialist's DPS is low to begin with. After this nerf, it seems like we're being discouraged from even trying to do any real damage, we're just supposed to sit there and take a beating from everyone else.

 

I'm not even sure Static Shield/Static Surge will be worth it after this.

[ComeAndSee]

The nerf to Stockstrike hurts for PvP because Stockstrike is your bread and butter, but the new stuff is pretty good. My crit chance with it drops from 64% to 50%.

 

* HIB hitting 4 extra targets with Ion Cell is just damn sweet.

 

* 2 free Static Surge's after leaping is freaking amazing.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Keypek]

Pvp wise vanguard is getting hit pretty good here. Shield specialist is so lackluster in pvp since 1.2 it was painful to play and now they are nerfing what little dps output potential it had in stockstrike.

 

Tactics is getting its PG bug nerfed but since they didn't directly mention (or have ever mentioned it) the 70% snare is FINALLY being fixed that I'm assuming it is not being fixed. So tactics for vanguard will be underperforming. Unless they actually do fix the 70% snare for which it will be ok.

 

And assault is all about the burst damage. While nothing is being changed directly the adrenal/relic nerf in pvp will hit the assault spec the hardest. While perfectly capable of being useful without them it is still a nerf. However, adrenal/relic burst damage was about the only way to bring down a good, geared out operative healer or a merc with his CDs up.

 

Overall, horrible for vanguards in pvp. The pve help for tank spec is nice though.

[RangerBeo]

Overall, interesting patch...I see both positives and negatives...depending on wether you like to focus on PvE or PvP....but overall I think its a nice balanced change. I will be curious to see how the changes to all the classes play out against each other in PvP. Cant just look at your class...in my opinion....you should look at the big picture and see how the landscape changed.

[ComeAndSee]

Pvp wise vanguard is getting hit pretty good here. Shield specialist is so lackluster in pvp since 1.2 it was painful to play and now they are nerfing what little dps output potential it had in stockstrike.

 

I'm not sure about you, but I can do very good DPS as Shield Spec either through mass AOEing or single target damage. They took away 14% crit, but gave us 2 free Explosive Surges on charge and Ion Cell AOE splashing High Impact Bolts.

 

Tactics is getting its PG bug nerfed but since they didn't directly mention (or have ever mentioned it) the 70% snare is FINALLY being fixed that I'm assuming it is not being fixed. So tactics for vanguard will be underperforming. Unless they actually do fix the 70% snare for which it will be ok.

 

Are you talking about it being refreshed every 2s the DOT ticked or is it slowing people more than intended?

 

And assault is all about the burst damage. While nothing is being changed directly the adrenal/relic nerf in pvp will hit the assault spec the hardest. While perfectly capable of being useful without them it is still a nerf. However, adrenal/relic burst damage was about the only way to bring down a good, geared out operative healer or a merc with his CDs up.

 

Adrenal + Relic was pretty overpowered. It's like 20% more damage for the duration.

 

Overall, horrible for vanguards in pvp. The pve help for tank spec is nice though.

 

The PvE changes are very nice for Tanking. Trying to hold AOE threat on trash packs in 16 mans was rough.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Philosomanic]

Pvp wise vanguard is getting hit pretty good here. Shield specialist is so lackluster in pvp since 1.2 it was painful to play and now they are nerfing what little dps output potential it had in stockstrike.

 

Okay, I didn't change to Shield spec until after 1.2. However, I'm full Shield now and loving it. This is a hit to DPS, but now that I've looked at it it's not as huge as I'd like. With a base crit chance of 20% (and the Combat Tech 4-set), we're losing an average of 18% Stock Strike Damage. Considering SS makes up roughly 1/4 of our damage, we're losing roughly 5% overall. It's bad, but not quite as horrible as it looks.

 

Also, I'm kind of excited about the huge AoE boost we're getting. Sure, we're going to be losing even more single-target damage, but I think this is going to make us even more valuable to the team. We're still tanks first and foremost, and still rock at that job. However, we can now also do AoE pressure DPS, and since we're so tanky we just won't die. We'll be specialized at diving into the fray and killing everything around us. Sure, bursting down a target receiving anything resembling healing is no longer an option. However, we'll be awesome pressure DPS while we tank, and any good PvP-er knows the value of pressure.

 

 

 

Tactics is getting its PG bug nerfed but since they didn't directly mention (or have ever mentioned it) the 70% snare is FINALLY being fixed that I'm assuming it is not being fixed. So tactics for vanguard will be underperforming. Unless they actually do fix the 70% snare for which it will be ok.

 

Good news! Allison Berryman has confirmed that a fix is "in the works" for the PG slow. No timeline specified, but it's in progress. Tactics might have a short period where 1.3 nerfs Tactics but the fix for PG isn't released yet, but it shouldn't be long.

 

 

 

And assault is all about the burst damage. While nothing is being changed directly the adrenal/relic nerf in pvp will hit the assault spec the hardest. While perfectly capable of being useful without them it is still a nerf. However, adrenal/relic burst damage was about the only way to bring down a good, geared out operative healer or a merc with his CDs up.

 

...you serious? Assault is still going to rock. Sure, everyone's burst has dropped a bit, but we're still doing fine. I've never used a biochem adrenal, and I ran out of warzone adrenals early into my 50s and stopped buying them. As Assault, I still did fine bursting healers down. If anything, it was the Operatives that gave me the most trouble. If I could handle it in half-recruit gear, I'm sure a BM-geared player shouldn't have issues.

[ComeAndSee]

Anyone can confirm static surge still gives 30% critical dmg bonus?

[TheOpf]

Woohoo! I say someone get on there and test PG. Make sure it works and the slow is applied. I am so happy for my fellow Tactics players. I really hope the slow gets fixed, though I am sure you will miss the massive slaughter you were applying to everyone.

 

On a bonus note, tank shadows and assassins are feeling the healing nerf!

[ComeAndSee]

If stockstrike and e surge lost 30% critical bonus than that is a massive massive nerf.

 

I don't think I would play anymore if my main attack critz for 1750 max on clothes and 1050 on heavy.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Keypek]

Yeah I'm not really freaking out about the changes or anything. Think everyone thinks I'm doom and glooming here. But overall the vanguard took a hit in pvp in my opinion. It may be small but still a hit is all I'm saying. The SS changes are really sweet for pve but for pvp I'm not all that impressed. A couple explosive surges aren't going to pressure anything except noob groups that decide to stand right next to each other for over 5 seconds and if you get a lot of crits but even then not sure you can call that pressure. Will be fun at times like in a bunker at Novare and at a door in Voidstar and let SS specs pad their damage numbers a little bit.

 

Tactics if the slow does get fixed is good news overall.

 

Assault, yes it'll still do good burst. I ran for a good month with no stim or adrenals and was still doing good at 50. But the loss of adrenals and relics is a huge loss to the class. Whether it is needed or warranted is not my point. My point is simply that it is a nerf in pvp. I'm not sweating the changes as I'll still be a killing machine as assault but will have to see how it plays out overall. Us losing burst damage while op/scoundrel healers are already hard to kill before burst nerf and sentinel/marrauders who have good damage without adrenals still have 5 ways to mitigate damage to our one. Be curious to see how it all plays out... especially in ranked warzones where it'll actually matter.

[ComeAndSee]

Yeah I'm not really freaking out about the changes or anything. Think everyone thinks I'm doom and glooming here. But overall the vanguard took a hit in pvp in my opinion. It may be small but still a hit is all I'm saying. The SS changes are really sweet for pve but for pvp I'm not all that impressed. A couple explosive surges aren't going to pressure anything except noob groups that decide to stand right next to each other for over 5 seconds and if you get a lot of crits but even then not sure you can call that pressure. Will be fun at times like in a bunker at Novare and at a door in Voidstar and let SS specs pad their damage numbers a little bit.

 

If they just took away 16% chance to crit from the PvP spec. than it will be balanced out by the new changes. If they took away 30% crit damage bonus than it really does butcher the specs DPS in PvP.

 

(assuming 30% crit dmg is still there and you lose 16% crit)

 

* 2 free Explosive Surges after charging is basically like getting 2 free Ion Pulses. Overall it will be a net ammo regeneration increase if you're storming a lot in PvP and the splash damage will make up for the crit chance loss easily.

 

* High Impact Bolt splash will be another net DPS increase because it hits the target and 4 other targets around it with Ion Cell's slow and DOT.

 

//

 

However, if you lose 30% crit dmg than you can't recover that much of a loss with the two things posted above.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Krayshawn]

Woohoo! I say someone get on there and test PG. Make sure it works and the slow is applied. I am so happy for my fellow Tactics players. I really hope the slow gets fixed, though I am sure you will miss the massive slaughter you were applying to everyone.

 

On a bonus note, tank shadows and assassins are feeling the healing nerf!

 

Dude im so happy! darkness not only is getting mega hela nerf their armor is going from 150 to 115% , im also thinking about going shield for pvp, they say nothing about PG being fixed and the new aoe for shield is too desirable, this is due to it being instant and good for energy management. the loss of ss crit is meh, my 4 piece combat tech compensates for it, if you really want tank stats just switch out the mod and enhancement. i will mod my gear with shield/power augs and see how it goes. I also now see potential for hybrid, different from ironfist.

[Keypek]

If they just took away 16% chance to crit from the PvP spec. than it will be balanced out by the new changes. If they took away 30% crit damage bonus than it really does butcher the specs DPS in PvP.

 

(assuming 30% crit dmg is still there and you lose 16% crit)

 

* 2 free Explosive Surges after charging is basically like getting 2 free Ion Pulses. Overall it will be a net ammo regeneration increase if you're storming a lot in PvP and the splash damage will make up for the crit chance loss easily.

 

* High Impact Bolt splash will be another net DPS increase because it hits the target and 4 other targets around it with Ion Cell's slow and DOT.

 

//

 

However, if you lose 30% crit dmg than you can't recover that much of a loss with the two things posted above.

 

Ok, I see your point there. I was thinking it was the bonus to crit damage they were nerfing. Guess will have to see how it all plays out. The HiB splash damage doesn't impress me at all in pvp as the damage from ion cell is small. And a 2 second aoe snare every 15 seconds isn't going to do much. But it will be awesome in pve.

 

Overall, it could have been worse. However, I think without the burst damage in general that op healers are going to be ridiculously OP now.

[Larzi]

i am excited about these changes, yes stoke strike is getting nerfed. But that means that as a shield specalist i need to rethink my rotation for pvp and i will also be respecing the stokestrike stuff in HIB.

[ComeAndSee]

i am excited about these changes, yes stoke strike is getting nerfed. But that means that as a shield specalist i need to rethink my rotation for pvp and i will also be respecing the stokestrike stuff in HIB.

 

Stockstrike without its 30% crit bonus is basically Paperstrike.

 

I mean, our current rotation is just pushing buttons off cooldown and maintaining ammo. Nothing really special. High Impact Bolt will be your hardest hitting ability (it already hits harder than Stockstrike even without 30% critical bonus) as Shield, but hitting for 600-1000 damage less on your main ability is going to hurt.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Krayshawn]

Stockstrike without its 30% crit bonus is basically Paperstrike.

 

I mean, our current rotation is just pushing buttons off cooldown and maintaining ammo. Nothing really special. High Impact Bolt will be your hardest hitting ability (it already hits harder than Stockstrike even without 30% critical bonus) as Shield, but hitting for 600-1000 damage less on your main ability is going to hurt.

 

But shayara, if we stack power, this will boost all the new splash damage, i see alot of new found potential with Shield and will switch to it in 1.3. The 30% surge to SS is a loos, that is undeniable and can't even be contributed to by adrenals due to that other bio nerf (UGHHH!) . The new splash from HiB stacked with a high power will be good for sustained, I think the key thing to note about this patch is that :

1. IronFist is no longer that viable.

2. Tank Vanguards will now assume the role of tanking, they will put up good numbers at the end if played right, but will loose significant amounts of burst.

3. They are overall nerfing my current spec NORSE due to the removal of the 50% damage proc to AoE's with out adding the 70% snare to pulse cannon (pulse generator ability with in Tactics).

[ComeAndSee]

But shayara, if we stack power, this will boost all the new splash damage, i see alot of new found potential with Shield and will switch to it in 1.3. The 30% surge to SS is a loos, that is undeniable and can't even be contributed to by adrenals due to that other bio nerf (UGHHH!) . The new splash from HiB stacked with a high power will be good for sustained

 

High Impact Bolt has a 15 second cooldown.

 

2. Tank Vanguards will now assume the role of tanking, they will put up good numbers at the end if played right, but will loose significant amounts of burst.

 

I already Tank. I wear half dps/half tank gear and I guard and peel people off my healers. Also, it's not just burst, it's our sustained damage. Stockstrike is the bread and butter of the tree. Also, Explosive Surge is going to crit for 30% less and it only crits for 1,200 on live right now with that talent.

 

It's give and take. Give us free Explosive Surges but gut our single target damage. It's not a fair trade and I don't think it's fun for my main ability the tree is built around to hit for only slightly more than Ion Pulse.

[Krayshawn]

High Impact Bolt has a 15 second cooldown.

 

 

 

I already Tank. I wear half dps/half tank gear and I guard and peel people off my healers. Also, it's not just burst, it's our sustained damage. Stockstrike is the bread and butter of the tree. Also, Explosive Surge is going to crit for 30% less and it only crits for 1,200 on live right now with that talent.

 

It's give and take. Give us free Explosive Surges but gut our single target damage. It's not a fair trade and I don't think it's fun for my main ability the tree is built around to hit for only slightly more than Ion Pulse.

 

Yea i agree with you, SS was the staple ability. IDK what combination may be achieved by this new nerf, and i know you tank, iv seen your high protection numbers. and that 1200 is fully based on your gear (the augments you put in it) i can't get PTS to work, never could. assuming you have it, does the 30% surge get removed?, that sucks if so...

and i know that HiB has 15s CD, but, it causes Ion Cell which in turn causes Overload in an AoE. this is a overall boost in damage (stacked with power).

[ComeAndSee]

Yea i agree with you, SS was the staple ability. IDK what combination may be achieved by this new nerf, and i know you tank, iv seen your high protection numbers. and that 1200 is fully based on your gear (the augments you put in it) i can't get PTS to work, never could. assuming you have it, does the 30% surge get removed?, that sucks if so...

and i know that HiB has 15s CD, but, it causes Ion Cell which in turn causes Overload in an AoE. this is a overall boost in damage (stacked with power).

 

Yes, but you can only do it once every 15 seceonds. If Ion Cell hits for the same damage it hits now it's only 200-300 damage per target it effects and the dot lasts 6 seconds instead of 9 seconds which is another nerf. Also, the damage is split between the targets so it's not really that damaging.

 

I honestly don't think 2 free Explosive Surges and possible 1-1.5k extra AOE splash from HIB will make up for the loss of the 30% crit dmg bonus.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[CitizenFry]

My current impression as a PvE player is "wow, huge nerf." General threat build is up (don't care), multitarget threat build is way up (minor buff in situations that weren't terribly hard), single target damage is down (big nerf in all situations).

[Keypek]

My current impression as a PvE player is "wow, huge nerf." General threat build is up (don't care), multitarget threat build is way up (minor buff in situations that weren't terribly hard), single target damage is down (big nerf in all situations).

 

Single target damage is down but threat generation is boosted 50% more for total of 100% now for tank vanguard in pve so I think it'll still be a boost. But that's just a guestimate and have no real numbers to go on that. Just seems like it'd be a boost.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Keypek

[Krayshawn]

Yes, but you can only do it once every 15 seceonds. If Ion Cell hits for the same damage it hits now it's only 200-300 damage per target it effects and the dot lasts 6 seconds instead of 9 seconds which is another nerf. Also, the damage is split between the targets so it's not really that damaging.

 

I honestly don't think 2 free Explosive Surges and possible 1-1.5k extra AOE splash from HIB will make up for the loss of the 30% crit dmg bonus.

 

WOH WOH WOH, the damage is split? ***. "triggers your Ion Cell on the target and up to 4 additional nearby targets" this is not worded that way at all and proves to be very misleading. now my tool tip for ion cell says 628. obviously some damage is reduced by armor but shouldn't my 623.6 tech bonus damage be applied? But basicaly, HiB, now becomes an AoE 50% snare, thats nice.

[CitizenFry]

Single target damage is down but threat generation is boosted 50% more for total of 100% now for tank vanguard in pve so I think it'll still be a boost. But that's just a guestimate and have no real numbers to go on that. Just seems like it'd be a boost.

 

I've never had anything remotely resembling problems with threat, so any boost to threat is irrelevant.