swils Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Fresh out of the shop, campaign gear: (Stat order: Aim / End / Pow / Crit / Acc / Surge) Elim Cannon + Elim Gene: 211 / 251 / 84 / 95 / 0 / 114 Elim Cannon + Tech Gene: 191 / 266 / 90 / 95 / 95 / 57 / 57 Tech Cannon + Elim Gene: 234 / 201 / 207 / 0 / 0 / 114 Tech Cannon + Tech Gene: 214 / 216 / 213 / 0 / 57 / 57 Let's assume that I'm sitting near the "ideal" Crit, Surge, and Accuracy thresholds. In this case, the third option, Tech Cannon + Eliminator Generator, look like it's going to be my preferred setup for maximizing dps. Mercenary's blasters, fresh off the shelevs, have the following combined stats: 242 / 216 / 0 / 246 / 114 / 0 Okay, so they have a huge amount crit in their stock weapons. Keeping things equal, assume that the Mercenary is also sitting near the Cr/Ac/Su thresholds, and thus doesn't need all that crit. Ignoring the costs for a minute (yes, stripping & replacing mods is expensive, and yes, replacing with campaign mods can be a challenge, especially for a guild that is progressing and gearing people and can't afford to just hand out loot to be stripped for one or two of its mods), let's look at the combined stats on the MH/OH if those high-crit mods are replaced with power/surge mods (Crystal 41 Pow, Mod 53A/32E/41Pow, Enh 27E/41P/57Su). 242 / 216 / 246 / 0 / 0 / 114 So, with the idea of maximizing DPS in mind (and before adding in augments), the "best case" combined stats look to be as follows (given same assumptions as above) Commando: 234 Aim / 201 End / 207 Pow / 0 Crit / 0 Acc / 114 Surge Mercenary: 242 Aim / 216 End / 246 Pow / 0 Crit / 0 Acc / 114 Surge Mercs: +8 Aim, + 15 End, + 39 Pow If you add in the extra augment slot they get, then it becomes +26 Aim (+8), +27 End, + 39 Pow (+57). The numbers in parentheses are if you use a power augment instead of aim. Before augments, Commandos get a total of 409+347= 756 stat points, while Mercenaries get 2x409 = 818 stat points. Now, I understand that there is a penalty associated with offhand weapons in the combat mechanics, but does that really make up for the 60 or so point-deficit between the equipment styles, or am I missing something glaringly obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swils Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Up top. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterator Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Up top. Anyone? I've got a feeling that most of the lurkers on the SWTOR forums are QQers who want silver planters rather than understand the maths and dynamics behind how they suck. I commented for 2 reasons, bumping the thread and subscribing in the hopes that there is an answer to your question. Good luck mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aritok Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Merc have the same bonus as any dual wield class. Their offhand dont has fixed stats but mods. And can be augmented in this way. So they are more flexible and have better stats all together. Say thx to biowware for this nice "balance" of the classes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malorific Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Also bumping for any other input. I know its been mentioned, but does anyone know how the reduction in offhand dmg is calculated, as these increased stats might be offset by this dmg reduction from the offhand weapon output meaning that the overall output is the same. Also if I am remembering right they need to get more accuracy than we do - we just need to get to 100% on ranged, they need to get higher so that their offhand ticks from Unload (Full Auto) hit rather than miss....at 100% all of ours will hit, I am sure it was about 104% I think. If this is the case then they will need to gear for this at the expense of other secondary stats which may further balance it out between us. I do not however have firm data to back this up....if anyone does, or can check on a BH alt etc to confirm this? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazrahel Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Also bumping for any other input. I know its been mentioned, but does anyone know how the reduction in offhand dmg is calculated, as these increased stats might be offset by this dmg reduction from the offhand weapon output meaning that the overall output is the same. Also if I am remembering right they need to get more accuracy than we do - we just need to get to 100% on ranged, they need to get higher so that their offhand ticks from Unload (Full Auto) hit rather than miss....at 100% all of ours will hit, I am sure it was about 104% I think. If this is the case then they will need to gear for this at the expense of other secondary stats which may further balance it out between us. I do not however have firm data to back this up....if anyone does, or can check on a BH alt etc to confirm this? M. Yes we have to hit 104% CTH for both blasters to hit 100% of the time. Regarding the offhand dmg's with the 2 rakata weapons (ok orange blasters with aim augments), I am not on my toon but it's around 180-190 for the off hand albeit the main hand sits at 910. Don't take these numbers as cheer numbers : can't remember which buff I had last time I checked, it's only to show the ratio. But I'd like to add that I was astonished to see that the pulse canon was MUCH more effective than the flame thrower regarding the area of effect, or at least looks so - haven't looked at it damage wise. Edited May 10, 2012 by Hazrahel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Generally speaking, yes, having a modable off-hand is going to provide a higher stat budget. This is true for sentinels/marauders as well. With that said, this should really only be true if you take augments into account. In other words, the stat budget should *only* be higher by 28 points. The combined stats of a mercenary's MH+OH should be identical to a commando's MH+Gen. The fact that they're not seems like an obviously flubbed balance issue. Unfortunately, 1.2 demonstrated that BioWare isn't going to reitemize gear to fix serious mistakes. So, it's pretty likely that mercenaries are going to *remain* imbalanced stat-wise w.r.t. commandos. If it makes you feel better, gunslingers probably have the same advantage over snipers, but I haven't actually looked at the stats on that one. The extra 28 points (from the augment) is trickier, because it's not possible to get viable augmented generators at the present time. 1.3 may resolve this with augment kits, but that remains to be seen. As of right now (1.2), dual wielding classes have a significant stat advantage over non-dual wielding classes. (note that the stats are really the only thing that's important here; OH damage numbers are negligible and balanced by higher damage numbers on assault cannons/sniper rifles for commando/sniper ACs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swils Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Thanks for the additional replies, folks. I've got a spreadsheet set up where I was putting together an "optimal gear" load out, using a BH's AskMrRobot page as a reference. That's where I really noticed the stat imbalance (I included min/max damage in the sheet, but didn't note it here, just the chance to miss with OH). I know that in 'that other game', different stats had different weights within the budget, and that as you stacked more of that stat on a piece of gear, the budget cost per point got higher as well. I assumed the same held true here, or at least similarly, which was why I was really shocked by the difference between Point-totals between the MH/OH and MH/Gen. If no one minds me steering the thread in a slightly different direction now, does anyone know the actual accuracy % we (as commandos) should be looking to achieve for Ops? First I heard "Accuracy is useless", then I heard 108% Ranged, then 104% Ranged, and now, if I'm understanding it correctly, 104% is just for BH's, to compensate for their Offhand? Most of my information comes from sithwarrior, but they've got a heavy bias towards BH's over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malorific Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 100%......at the moment there is no data that going above 100% actually increases DPS. at 100% RANGED accuracy, your Tech is already at 110%. So basically we need to gear for 7% accuracy as Commandos since we get 3% from talents - which is very easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 96% ranged accuracy, 104% tech if you want to do EV and KP. 98% ranged, 108% tech if you want to do EC. (the bosses in EC have a slightly higher defense rating) Accuracy is far from useless, but it's definitely over-statted by the first tier sets. Black Hole / Campaign does a much better job here. Note that PvP (as always) has weird numbers. Accuracy is far less needful in PvP unless you're having problems killing tanks, then feel free to stack a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swils Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Working on 16man HM EC, so it looks like I'll be aiming for 98/108, thanky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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