Sith Warrior romances suck.

[mazerius]

Alright, so I know EVERYONE has a complaint about their class romances - whether it be sucky partner, wishing to be gxg or bxb, or whatever - but I'm thinking the Sith Warrior ladies pretty much got shafted. You get a weak, contractual romance with no real feelings and no real anything on one hand and then a mess that amounts to a fling on the other. I know the Sith are supposed to be the darker side of the force, and that means they give in to feelings like hate, jealousy, etc., but it also means they give into love.

 

Why can't Lt. Pierce be an ACTUAL romance instead of just a fling? I haven't managed to get a thing out of him that wasn't sex, then going back to business. I don't want him to be Aric or Corso, but a "real" cybernetic relationship with him would placate my inner fangirl.

 

Again, I'm aware not everyone is satisfied with their romance companion (though Aric - once you FINALLY unlock the romance stuff - and Corso have to be my favorites, period), I felt the need to post it on the forums in the hopes that, while they're fixing up companions, they'll deepen Lt. Pierce.

 

My first toon was a male Sith warrior and I really enjoyed the romance with his companions. It was really fun to see the dialog exchanges since I was romancing both Vette and Jaesa at the same time although in the end I stayed with Vette.

[bright_ephemera]

I was extremely disappointed by the lack of a light side Jaesa romance.

 

I dunno, I thought it was kind of neat that the game managed to squeeze in one biologically female companion that isn't there for the player to have sex with. Amazing, really. We have seventeen male companions like that; can we share the pain a little bit here?

[Mutive]

Well, Rose, maybe you can help with his case. Why do you like him?

 

I'll throw in another opinion...

 

Quinn has a delightfully dry sense of humor. I find him quite entertaining. (Plus, he is cute and has an awesome voice.) I suspect that my SW would prefer Pierce (and don't see why he's not a full blown romance option), but...I'm not sure that Quinn is a bad option.

 

 

Also, to be frank (and yes, I had read spoilers), I sort of wanted him to betray me. From the very beginning, it's clear that he's working for Baras. Sith are evil. (Esp mine.) Quinn is stuck as an ambitious officer stuck with the knowledge that any advancement he gets is going to be at the hands of the Sith. That sucks badly for him, but it's the world he's in. So what does he do?

 

He chooses a master, and does what it takes to work his way up the ladder (which includes betraying me when it's me vs. Baras. Baras is an established Sith Lord, I'm not, so Baras is the safer bet). When I win, he figures that I'm the horse to bet on and serves me instead of Baras. My dark side Sith really wouldn't expect anything different. (And, yeah, he is a pretentious social climber who is highly aware of status and knows that gaining favor with me is also a way to climb the ladder. Duh. It's not a fluffy bunny romance.)

 

In the world we're given, I think Quinn's behavior makes perfect sense. Especially for an ambitious young officer.

 

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Eh, she's kind of boring as an LS. I think she pulls an Ashara as far as why she isn't interested in a relationship, except she takes it from no marriage to no relationship.

 

Yet despite not being interested in a relationship, you can get her to agree to have your kids.

[bright_ephemera]

I'll throw in another opinion...

 

Quinn has a delightfully dry sense of humor. I find him quite entertaining.

 

Humor? He had that one line in the Balmorran spaceport that made me fall in love with him ("I hate to burst your bubble, Jedi...no, that's a lie. I'm reveling in it.") and then never villain-monologued with that humor again. False. Advertising.

 

 

Also, to be frank (and yes, I had read spoilers), I sort of wanted him to betray me. From the very beginning, it's clear that he's working for Baras. Sith are evil. (Esp mine.) Quinn is stuck as an ambitious officer stuck with the knowledge that any advancement he gets is going to be at the hands of the Sith. That sucks badly for him, but it's the world he's in. So what does he do?

 

He chooses a master, and does what it takes to work his way up the ladder (which includes betraying me when it's me vs. Baras. Baras is an established Sith Lord, I'm not, so Baras is the safer bet). When I win, he figures that I'm the horse to bet on and serves me instead of Baras. My dark side Sith really wouldn't expect anything different. (And, yeah, he is a pretentious social climber who is highly aware of status and knows that gaining favor with me is also a way to climb the ladder. Duh. It's not a fluffy bunny romance.)

 

In the world we're given, I think Quinn's behavior makes perfect sense. Especially for an ambitious young officer.

 

 

I agree with all this, but was really, really hoping to shag him into changing his evaluation of Baras's and my relative chances. In retrospect I was an idiot.

 

 

I still love that son of a I'm probably supposed to watch my language on this board.

 

EDIT:

Not that I would love him enough to let him live. He probably thought my LS warrior was a big softie who would welcome him back. Ha! He never saw me hurt before. If he can serve like a Sith, and backstab like a Sith, he can suffer the consequences of failure like a Sith. Doesn't diminish the enjoyment of that wretched sham of a romance while it lasted, though.

 

Edited May 4, 2012 by bright_ephemera
adding a caveat

[Spinks]

 

Why can't Lt. Pierce be an ACTUAL romance instead of just a fling? I haven't managed to get a thing out of him that wasn't sex, then going back to business..

 

It's funnier if you tell him that he was disappointing after the one night stand. He gets all *****y about Quinn, which I find hilarious.

[grania]

It's funnier if you tell him that he was disappointing after the one night stand. He gets all *****y about Quinn, which I find hilarious.

 

What exactly does he say?? I have to know

[JediElf]

I'll throw in another opinion...

 

Quinn has a delightfully dry sense of humor. I find him quite entertaining. (Plus, he is cute and has an awesome voice.) I suspect that my SW would prefer Pierce (and don't see why he's not a full blown romance option), but...I'm not sure that Quinn is a bad option.

 

 

Also, to be frank (and yes, I had read spoilers), I sort of wanted him to betray me. From the very beginning, it's clear that he's working for Baras. Sith are evil. (Esp mine.) Quinn is stuck as an ambitious officer stuck with the knowledge that any advancement he gets is going to be at the hands of the Sith. That sucks badly for him, but it's the world he's in. So what does he do?

 

He chooses a master, and does what it takes to work his way up the ladder (which includes betraying me when it's me vs. Baras. Baras is an established Sith Lord, I'm not, so Baras is the safer bet). When I win, he figures that I'm the horse to bet on and serves me instead of Baras. My dark side Sith really wouldn't expect anything different. (And, yeah, he is a pretentious social climber who is highly aware of status and knows that gaining favor with me is also a way to climb the ladder. Duh. It's not a fluffy bunny romance.)

 

In the world we're given, I think Quinn's behavior makes perfect sense. Especially for an ambitious young officer.

 

Thank you! Thank you!

 

For the longest time I thought I was the only one, who saw what he did, and why, in that light.

 

 

My Dark Side Sith, my ruthless, cunning man...chose that moment, for his own reasons, to show absolute mercy. For once he understood the terrible choice that others face in this empire, and he chose to keep his friend (sadly not, a lover ) alive.

 

It's powerful, and in a way beautiful, and to me one of the best, and most emotional moments in the game.

 

I can't wait to see how this carries on, in chapter four.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2012 by JediElf

[bright_ephemera]

Thank you! Thank you!

 

For the longest time I thought I was the only one, who saw what he did, and why, in this light.

 

 

My Dark Side Sith, my ruthless, cunning man...chose that moment, for his own reasons, to show absolute mercy. For once he understood the terrible choice that others face in this empire, and he chose to keep his friend (sadly not, a lover ) alive.

 

It's powerful, and in a way beautiful, and to me one of the best, and most emotional moments in the game.

 

I can't wait to see how this carries on, in chapter four.

 

 

 

Oh. Huh. See,

that scene was the awesomest flurry of comprehension I've had since...well...KOTOR. I understand how he got there and I understand how brilliant he had to be navigate the difficult waters of Sith circles of power.

 

But Quinn was the only thing I never calculated. The only thing I trusted for what he was and what he believed in. It was him I fought to protect and him who inspired my every Imperial victory. And, um, him for whom I dropped a male Warrior to roll female. And then to find out what a lie it was from the start, to find that his calculations never favored me? Perhaps if I had kept a little more distance, I might have been able to deal with his ugly necessity. I do understand, after all. But I spent so damned long waiting for him to let himself love me...and now, after he finally did, I find that it's the one thing I cannot forgive.

 

He's a dead man.

 

 

The whole thing couldn't have been half that delicious without the romance.

Edited May 4, 2012 by bright_ephemera
clarity

[JediElf]

Yes but....

 

 

Why speak in absolutes like he 'has' to die. Remember this game gives us a choice, and I do know a few people with the romance who also let him live.

 

I understand that's you opinion on it, but it doesn't invalidate the other choice, the reasons for it, and the perception of the incident as a whole.

 

I know you want the choice back to kill him, and i respect that, but I don't get why you're arguing for 'me' to want to kill him as well. Even if my male SW could love him, he'd still keep him alive...that's just how it played out to me.

 

Edited May 4, 2012 by JediElf

[bright_ephemera]

Yes but....

 

 

Why speak in absolutes like he 'has' to die. Remember this game gives us a choice, and I do know a few people with the romance who also let him live.

 

I understand that's you opinion on it, but it doesn't invalidate the other choice, the reasons for it, and the perception of the incident as a whole.

 

I know you want the choice back to kill him, and i respect that, but I don't get why you're arguing for 'me' to want to kill him as well. Even if my male SW could love him, he'd still keep him alive...that's just how it played out to me.

 

Oh, sure, absolutely! Not everyone has to share my boiling rage and unbelievably powerful desire for bloody revenge. When I say

he has to die, I'm talking about my instance of him. You crazy people with your "mercy" and your "forgiveness" and your "not immediately condemning a guy who got worked into a corner" can do as you like.

 

[Birna]

I dunno, I thought it was kind of neat that the game managed to squeeze in one biologically female companion that isn't there for the player to have sex with. Amazing, really. We have seventeen male companions like that; can we share the pain a little bit here?

 

Oh thank God, I thought it was just me who noticed that. I hate that ALL the female companions (except SCORPIO who doesn't count) are basically there to be love interests. Women do exist for other reasons, Bioware, and I KNOW you know this, which makes it extra disappointing. ><

[bright_ephemera]

Oh thank God, I thought it was just me who noticed that. I hate that ALL the female companions (except SCORPIO who doesn't count) are basically there to be love interests. Women do exist for other reasons, Bioware, and I KNOW you know this, which makes it extra disappointing. ><

 

I imagine the companion-brainstorming session went like this:

 

A: Okay, the Knight should get a young and vulnerable padawan.

B: He should get to sleep with her.

A: Definitely, yeah. Now, the Consular's going to need a young and vulnerable padawan.

C: He should get to sleep with her.

A: Absolutely. Moving along, the Inquisitor should get a young and vulnerable padawan.

D: Sith don't even have padawans.

B: A trifling detail, he'll just adopt one. And then he should get to sleep with her.

A: Naturally. The Warrior should also get a young and vulnerable padawan.

D: Maybe...maybe sometimes he could...not sleep with her?

A: ...

B: ...

C: ...

A: ...it's...daring, I'll give it that.

B: Okay. but just this once.

C: How about the fembot? Are we as a culture ready to make her screwable?

A: Eh, trying to stay family-friendly here. Maybe not. But tell you what, we'll make up for it by giving the Agent two screwable biological females.

B: Brilliant!

D: Say, could some of the aliens be female? A lady Jawa with a rocket launcher would be awesome.

B: Would a male player get to shag her?

D: ...I hope not.

B: Then I don't see the point in making it female. Boy Jawa it is. Next!

Edited May 4, 2012 by bright_ephemera
Removed unnecessary quotes

[Mirandel]

I imagine the companion-brainstorming session went like this:

 

Brilliant! I am sure you are 100% right!

[JediElf]

I dunno...I don't think all the women in the game are 'just' there to be sex objects. I find plenty of them have varying personalities, and their own goals and needs. They don't just cling to my males, or sulk if I choose not to flirt with them.

 

I'm Kaylio is playing my Agent for a fool, 'she's' the one pulling the strings, and who has the power in...whatever it is we have going on. Even Mako doesn't trike me as glossy arm candy.

 

Heck even all the women that you can sleep with randomly, it's more like your 'offering' yourself to them as opposed to them begging you for sex.

 

I guess I just don't see it. Forgive me.

Edited May 4, 2012 by JediElf

[bright_ephemera]

I dunno...I don't think all the women int he game are 'just' there to be sex objects. I find plenty of them have varying personalities, and their own goals and needs. They don't just cling to my males, or sulk if I choose not to flirt with them.

 

I can agree that they're not just there for sex. The female companions are strong and somewhat varied and awesome. As individuals I think they're all wonderful.

 

Every single one, save half of Jaesa, can be seduced.

 

Male companions outnumber women nearly three to one. (Edit: Only 2.4 to one when I cut out droids!) It feels like they had a lot of good companion ideas but they needed a compelling reason to make any given companion female instead of male, and there was only one compelling reason they could think of.

 

Setting aside the droid (who is awesome), there are no older women with long interesting careers (Lord Scourge, Doctor Lokin). There are no women from interesting only-barely-humanoid species (Broonmark, Blizz, sorta-Guss). There are, apart from LS Jaesa, no determined career women who just aren't into relationships for whatever reason (Zenith, Gault, Rusk). The game has great female companions, but they are strangely few and almost universally sexual.

Edited May 4, 2012 by bright_ephemera
Correcting my facts

[JediElf]

Why is it wrong for a women to be sexual in nature? Or why does she have to choose between being sexual and being 'successful'. Why can't she be a bit of both?

 

I do agree that we do need more non human females, that would make for a nice change.

 

Honestly I don't see the problem with this, I mean we can choose not to seduce every single women we see in the game. My real complaint is that their are not enough man to seduce....they need much more.

 

To me, in a story driven game like this, I just don't see it being such a bad thing.

 

I just get really put off with the notion that:

 

Woman + Love = Weakness

Edited May 4, 2012 by JediElf

[bright_ephemera]

I love me some female sexuality, but I get annoyed that such a ludicrous percentage of the nonsexual beings are men. Apparently if I play male I can seduce any member of the opposite sex in sight, but if I'm female I'd better make do with what I'm given? When the numbers come out like this, it makes it seem like my gender has to be sexual to merit a place in this galaxy. I don't object to sexuality; I object to the requirement of sexuality.

[JediElf]

I don't know, I don't see it that way. Their are plenty of females that you can't always seduce as a male. Also several females, empire side, are in positions of power.

 

I just don't see it as being that oppressive, and I think Bioware has handled things like sexuality, and genders fairly well so far (still waiting on SGR, but that's another thread). However yes, I believe that female characters do need a winder selection of males to seduce, it would make things far more fair.

 

I dunno I mean, perhaps my perceptions are different because I'm a bit of a romantic at heart.

 

Tat being said I respect where your coming from as well. I have a feeling you and I may have to agree, to disagree.

 

Who knows, perhaps chapter 4 onward will even things out a bit?

Edited May 4, 2012 by JediElf

[Hyfy]

While this will be somewhat conjecture, it is pretty widely accepted that the majority of gamers in games like this are male. And while the number of female gamers is climbing (something that I personally enjoy) they are still pretty out numbered to that end. But I would venture to guess that if we got ahold of numbers and compared them percentage wise, the number of romanceable females vs number of romanceable males would be near carbon copies of the number of male gamers vs female gamers respectively.

 

In short I'm thinking Bioware is merely playing the numbers game here.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Hyfy

[Birna]

I love me some female sexuality, but I get annoyed that such a ludicrous percentage of the nonsexual beings are men. Apparently if I play male I can seduce any member of the opposite sex in sight, but if I'm female I'd better make do with what I'm given? When the numbers come out like this, it makes it seem like my gender has to be sexual to merit a place in this galaxy. I don't object to sexuality; I object to the requirement of sexuality.

 

ding ding ding

 

I like most of the female companions (Kira drives me crazy, though), and I think most of them are well written and pretty well fleshed out as Actual People (the ones I DON'T think are fleshed out enough are simply victims of "Hoth or Later" syndrome, which affects the male companions as well). I just find it weird and a bit disappointing that it reeeeeally seems like it didn't occur to them to add a female companion in without also making them a love interest. Kinda makes it seem like that's the main reason they exist.

 

Of course I say this and I would totally give my left arm to have Talos Drellik romanceable. The obvious solution is to make all the dudes romanceable too.

[JediElf]

I just find it weird and a bit disappointing that it reeeeeally seems like it didn't occur to them to add a female companion in without also making them a love interest. Kinda makes it seem like that's the main reason they exist.

 

That's the thing though, if the romaces were crude, or disrepectufll to women I'd agree more. However the romances are really sweet, sometimes crazy ,and done with , what I feel ,is a fair emotional balance and maturity. I don't think Bioware had an agenda to treat women like crud, or just sex objects.

 

However I do understand the frustration, as the options for females is very limited, and that's not right at all. The obvious solution, is to make more males available for sexin', and romancin'. Fair is fair indeed!

 

Of course I say this and I would totally give my left arm to have Talos Drellik romanceable. The obvious solution is to make all the dudes romanceable too.

 

Oh now that we can agree on! It's really sad that he's not. He's such a charming guy!

 

Edit to add: I also apologize profusely if I have, in any way, seemed like I'm just being overly argumentative on this topic.

Edited May 5, 2012 by JediElf

[bright_ephemera]

However I do understand the frustration, as the options for females is very limited, and that's not right at all. The obvious solution, is to make more males available for sexin', and romancin'. Fair is fair indeed!

 

Fully, profoundly, deeply in favor here.

 

Edit to add: I also apologize profusely if I have, in any way, seemed like I'm just being overly argumentative on this topic.

 

No offense taken, at least on my part! Your perspective is perfectly reasonable.

 

Outside certain areas such as companions and Sith Warrior NPCs, SWTOR does a really good job with gender equality. I'll keep poking at the edges so long as I see room for improvement - come on, writers, tell me that lady adventurers who are middle-aged or nonhumanoid or just not that into you can still be relevant in a player's crew! - but I don't expect to be preaching the incontrovertible Gospel of I'm Right here.

[JediElf]

come on, writers, tell me that lady adventurers who are middle-aged or nonhumanoid or just not that into you can still be relevant in a player's crew!

 

Ya know, I'd love to see that added as well, and I think that a older, non human, no-romance woman like that would fit it quite well, with the Sith Warriors story line.

 

Who knows? Perhaps we'll see someone like that appear in chapter four onward.

Edited May 5, 2012 by JediElf

[alricka]

As a male Sith Warrior, I found both romance options to be more or less good.

 

With Vette it's interesting, because she's such a foil for you. The male Sith Warrior is this... dark prince sort of archetype, and his story is very bloody and grim. And suddenly in comes Vette with her cheery youthful voice and the silly wisecracks. It's a great contrast.

If you play a Light or a Neutral character, you can very easily rationalize the romance. It's not only a case of opposites attracted to each other, it's also a way for the Sith Warrior to resist the complete fall to the Dark Side. Vette is like the kind of girl that brings out the best in you. Well, most of the time.

And as you play through her personal story, the thing becomes meatier. For example,

facing the death of Vette's enslaved mother and confronting the Hutt who worked her to death is pretty deep for a Star Wars game.

I wish there were more moments like this. It's a good story.

 

With Jaesa, it's the complete opposite, but it's just as good. There you see what happens when people indulge themselves completely and allow themselves to fall all the way. Systematically taking away everything that Jaesa ever had so at the end you were the only thing in the Universe that is left to her is... well, it's awesome, really. As the romantic story with Jaesa goes, I see it as a thematic representation of what happens you give yourself to the Dark Side - you become a perverted shell of your former self that is only intersted in satisfying basic and beastly urges. Unlike with Vette, here the romance is not about contrast, it's about synchrony. Jaesa is a monster you created, and if your Sith Warrior is Dark she's also a mirror for your Sithish vanity.

 

 

 

Now, as far as the male options are concerned... I haven't played as a female Sith Warrior, but I can understand how the romance would seem not so good here. Personally, I find Quinn to be repulsive and his lack of backbone is a character trait that I can never look by. Pierce, on the other hand, is a man whose personality I like, but other than that... I don't see what he brings on the table since he's kind of shallow.