Can anyone explain this? (T and Z question)

[Frezzyisfuzzy]

Ok, first a little background info. My guild runs with an op (me), 2 sorcerers, and a merc for healers on our 16 man raids. Generally, healing numbers for any given fight tend to look like me at the top (call that 100%), sorc #1 around 90%, merc around 75%, and sorc #2 around 65%. The Toth and Zorn (story mode) encounter, however, has been completely different. Below is a link to a screenshot of a merged parse of all our pulls from last night on the encounter. Also note that these encounters were all of significant duration (at least 2:30).

 

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a413/Frezzyisfuzzy/Public/TandZ.png

 

We've killed this encounter before, and the numbers were similarly skewed in my favor. I'm trying to figure out why this is happening, but I'm coming up blank. Our strat for the fight is to have the melee DPS stay on one mob (can't recall which one), following it when it jumps. The ranged DPS stay on the other. Sorc 1 and I stay on one side, healing whoever happens to be in our range at any given time, and Sorc 2 and Merc do the same on the opposite side.

 

I can see that obviously my side is just taking significantly more damage, so that can account for a gap between my side's healers and the other side's. But why am I so far ahead of Sorc 1 on this particular fight? As I said, we're usually pretty close in numbers. Are any other operatives noticing a huge disparity compared to other classes on this fight? I'm trying to isolate whatever factor is coming into play here. If it's something benefiting me, I'd like to exploit it in other fights. And if it's something hindering the other classes, I'd like to figure out a way to minimize it for when we get to HM.

 

If anyone wants more info about our strat, our raid, or just the mechanics of the fight for those that don't know it, feel free to ask.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Frezzyisfuzzy

[Aurojiin]

My first thought is... how are your sorcs managing their resources? I would expect to see their damage taken/healing received significantly higher than yours as a result of frequent use of Consumption. Your merc is appreciably lower in damage taken, though, so I'd like to know what's going on. Are they not using Consumption regularly? Are you yourself just taking more damage than you should?

 

Honestly, I would normally expect at least one of the Sorcs to outstrip you on healing done simply as a consequence of Revivification. My first thought would be that they're not using it nearly enough (i.e., on cooldown more often than not).

[sang]

To be honest, I've been seeing HPS numbers this high on my operative recently as well. It could just be that I'm getting better gear and/or I'm using my rotation better since 1.2 has been released, but 1600+ HPS for damage intensive fights like T&Z is becoming increasingly common for me. (My guild is currently 3/4 16m hard mode EC)

 

More to answer your question: currently SWTOR doesn't log a sorc's bubble as a heal, which is easily the highest HPS/HPE in the game so they are definitely providing a benefit not seen in the log. This should not, however, be the cause of such a wide gap. As you mentioned there are other factors that could contribute to the disparity in healing numbers between you and the sorc, but more than likely it's simply due to you being a better healer than him. Even without bubble being logged, I've seen sorc healers at 1500+ HPS pretty consistently. Truth be told, when half your healers can't even log an HPS over 1k, there is probably noticeable skill gap between healers.

[belialle]

It's impossible to say what is going on here without more detailed parse information. Are you casting RN a lot? That will certainly boost your HPS quite a lot. Are you rolling KP on lots of people? Are your sorcs and mercs mostly single target healing and not bothering with AoE heals so much? It could very well be that they know you tend to pick up the raid heals, freeing them to do more single-target healing. This would boost your HPS (not a particularly important stat, btw) and lower theirs.

 

With the melee running back and forth so much, it could very well be that the other healers just aren't bothering to cast their AoE heals.....or that they aren't timing it very well, resulting in the melee running out of it (while your AoE heal travels with the melee when they run to their new position). It could simply be that it's too difficult for them to use their AoE heal effectively, due to the way the group has to move back and forth so much during this fight. Maybe your tanks are moving the bosses too much after the tank swap to make their AoE heals worthwhile (one of the bosses knocks the tank back, which could also factor in here).

 

With a disparity like that, AoE healing is the first thing I'd take a look at if I were you.

Edited April 27, 2012 by belialle

[XtremJedi]

Aye... AoE healing seems the most likely culprit. I haven't done T&Z having quit the game shortly after 1.2 - but you mention that your group is moving when he jumps. Is it possible that Sorc1 isn't putting down his AoE as often because he's expecting the group to move soon? Or that the group is moving out of the AoE before it runs its course?

 

X

Edited April 27, 2012 by XtremJedi

[Frezzyisfuzzy]

I hadn't thought about bubble. I guess that accounts for a little of the general disparity, but does nothing to explain the change on this particular fight.

 

To answer the questions posed, here are images of each person's heal breakdown.

 

Mine - http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a413/Frezzyisfuzzy/Public/Mybreakdown.png

 

Sorc 1 - http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a413/Frezzyisfuzzy/Public/Sorc1breakdown.png

 

Merc - http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a413/Frezzyisfuzzy/Public/Mercbreakdown.png

 

Sorc 2 - http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a413/Frezzyisfuzzy/Public/Sorc2breakdown.png

 

Also, regarding my casting order (if you can't tell from the breakdown), I don't use my AoE very often on that fight. I'll hit it if I know the melee are clustered together and all need heals or something like that, but my brain is still kind of in the pre-1.2 mode of thinking that spell is total garbage. As far as kolto probe, I usually just keep two stacks on my tank and throw out random ones if I'm moving and don't want to use a TA for surgical probe. So my casting order generally looks like infusion, surgical, infusion, surgical, infusion, surgical, ad nauseum.

 

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but just for the record, we're all the same gear level, full rakata or missing just the chest (but it's a columi piece with rakata mods put in, so same thing anyway).

[sang]

Also, regarding my casting order (if you can't tell from the breakdown), I don't use my AoE very often on that fight. I'll hit it if I know the melee are clustered together and all need heals or something like that, but my brain is still kind of in the pre-1.2 mode of thinking that spell is total garbage. As far as kolto probe, I usually just keep two stacks on my tank and throw out random ones if I'm moving and don't want to use a TA for surgical probe. So my casting order generally looks like infusion, surgical, infusion, surgical, infusion, surgical, ad nauseum.

 

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but just for the record, we're all the same gear level, full rakata or missing just the chest (but it's a columi piece with rakata mods put in, so same thing anyway).

 

I'll assume you meant Injection instead of infusion above

 

Since 1.2, Recuperative Nanotech has become our highest total healing output cast as well one of our best HPS casts. It's still fairly costly in terms of energy, but I find if I'm able to account for the energy loss as well as regularly work in Diagnostic Scan to my rotation during down-time, I usually don't have problems. If anything, I've been using Recuperative Nanotech and Kolto Infusion (with the 4pc set bonus) more often (avg 10x Infusions) since 1.2 was released, but have been running into less energy management problems.

[Tyrrhenos]

Merc is the only healing class I know and looking at

the healing breakdown and seeing the frequent use

of Kolto missle and Kolto shell is really a surprise.

 

Your Merc must be overheating quite a lot.

 

From the number of heals cast 25% were Kolto shell and 17% Kolto missle.

I just looked at what I would consider an ideal "rotation" of mine

and end up with: 7.5% Kolto shell and 13% Kolto missle.

 

So you can ask your Merc to try the priority as following:

1.) Emergency Scan always when ready

2.) Healing Scan always when ready, followed by Rapid scan

3.) SCG when full, followed directly by a Kolto missle (best on the tank or melees)

Then as many Healing Scans on different targets due to the HOT as possible

4.) Rapid shots when little healing is needed

5.) Kolto shell only when heat <10%

[RuQu]

For one thing, the Merc is using Kolto Shell way too much, as Tyr mentioned. It counts each charge as a "hit", so it consumed 171 charges, which means he cast it 18 times, 17 assuming a pre-fight cast.

 

To use up all 10 charges requires 30 seconds (there was a bug that let it sometimes double tick, not sure if that is fixed). That means your fight would need to be 8.5 minutes long to justify those 17 casts.

 

As of Patch 1.2, you can no longer swap KS at will. It must run its full duration to be worth casting at all.

 

As for what puts you ahead, I glanced at your logs and my guess is HoTs. If you put RN on 4 people and KP on a few, then your groups swap, those with HoTs on them that are now in the other group are still getting healed. In contrast, the Sorcs are only healing those in the 4-man group closest to them.

 

You also have the issue of Sorc AoE scaling. While their AoE is twice as powerful as anyone else's per person, it really blows everyone out of the water on fights where it can hit 8. On a fight with only 4, they may not feel like it is as worthwhile (it absolutely is) and so may not cast it as often. Depending on timing, they may cast it only to have the group need to run away after the boss, thus making it largely wasted.

 

Finally, coming back to the Merc, there is always the issue of being carried. Fights only put out X amount of damage. If you have 4 healers, and one heals for X/2, on for X/4, and one for X/5, the 4th healer only has 5% of the damage left even available to them. The group is just shy of Healer 3 being good enough to make Healer 4 completely unneeded. A healer can usually feel when this is the case for them, and they throttle back or switch into a slightly different mode of healing where they heal for support, buffs, and convenience instead. Looking at your Merc, they used Kolto Missile a lot, which buffs the heals from the rest of you, and they apparently felt they could swap KS around at will which means they weren't busy with something more important. My guess is, if you ask and insist on honesty, the Merc will tell you that he feels really weak as a healer and was just doing what he could, where he could, but it looked like you guys had it covered almost without him.