hairlessOrphan Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 i wouldnt say that healers are not able to make a difference anymore. 2 of my guildmates, a op healer and a sorc healer, make a huge difference in the outcome a fight. theyre able to keep me up, even with 2-3 people focusing me, so that i can continue to dps, as well as keep enemies off of them. throw in a tank to guard and throw out taunts, and the 4 of us are not going to be easy to kill. its all about teamwork It's also about differentiating between "doing well" and "doing the best you can with what you've got." Or, put another way: you, op, sorc, tank vs. 4x dps on an assist train. Which 4-man is going to win most of those fights? It's an honest question, but I don't see you being able to take them down as quickly as they are going to take you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oMGitsree Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Its far too zergy. The damage output is too much with the nerf of healing AND defense. Either Damage has to go down just a bit or DEF and healing needs to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalTorrak Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 mmmmm i think you misunderstand me, I have no problems adapting. That being said it doesn't mean ill find enjoyment in its current state. I guess this style isn't my cup of tea you could say. I know what you mean, but the way the game is at the moment (capping WZ points etc) you NEED to be able to kill stuff fast, it was a joke before how long it took for healers (and others) to go down because quite simply, you could be fighting at a node forever if each side had healers, now its a lot more quick switching to throw them off guard and if you don't adjust fast enough you (or your buddies) die, I like it (finally) like this as before as an Imp Op, killing anything that I couldn't stunlock (which basically if they have a CC breaker up I'm f'd) was not fun, now it is, although we are still the most gimp class out there, at least it is better than before... TBH I enjoyed the game most at launch but to many kids QQ'd and BW reacted, (funny enough sorcs and sages the most played classes) and their anti class, yes Imp Ops got the nerf bat, TWICE, both times totally unnecessary, since most of the time (1 if their cc breaker ability was up they would not die, unless they were a sorc, which we were, WERE being the key word, their anti class) our class was all about burst, now we are like, I dunno, a gimped sin / shadow (Invul shield > Evasion EASILY, and vanish gets rid of all dots etc on them, PLUS more burst dmg and more survivability.... ) BW fails though on balance aspect, all this said just look at mara's.... / sents now, OP before and they get a buff.... awesome work BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Last night I had an epic battle between a healer commando and a sniper, and myself and a sorc. It was a 5 minute + stalemate. In several instances one of us reached about 20% health, but always with decent coordination things returned to balance. Judging by some of the talk on this forum, we all should have been dead. My dps is high enough to kill either a sniper or a commando in a burst. And a sniper can certainly do the same to me, or a sorc. So why didn't anyone die? I think DPS + healer works just fine, as long as you are careful about protecting your healers. People just aren't used to it yet. They are used to knowing their healer can tank on his own. Edited April 17, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairlessOrphan Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Last night I had an epic battle between a healer commando and a sniper, and myself and a sorc. It was a 5 minute + stalemate. In several instances one of us reached about 20% health, but always with decent coordination things returned to balance. That's cool, but the baseline comparison is still you + sorc vs. 2x DPS. I'm not dissing your story at all, but there's a lot of question-substitution going on that's confusing the issue at hand. The question is: is it ever beneficial to add a healer instead of another DPS to the team? People keep substituting that question with: are there any benefits to having a healer? But these questions aren't equivalent. Answering the second question (which is obvious) does not lend insight into the first question, it just confuses people. Let's all stop doing that, because honestly MMO forum-goers are confused enough, mirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erynz Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Before 1.2, guarded sage and commando healers just stood in the middle of the enemy and face tanked them. That was the playstyle that everyone got used to and it DOES NOT work post 1.2. You have to use terrain to LOS and you have to CC in order to survive now. I will agree that the TTK is a bit too low at the moment, but I think that has to do with several factors, the most ignored one being uncleansable heal debuffs. Both maras/sentinels and snipers/gunslingers have them now and it pretty much means everyone is guaranteed to be at an additional -20% healing. That is a hugely significat nerf to healing right there that no one seems to be touching on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikontos Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Excellent post..I have exactly the same thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanfordBlows Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I play both healing classes and dps classes... I am of the opinion that in 1v2 fight (dps vs dps/heals), it should be possible, but not likely, that the lone dps can emerge victorious. This should require AT LEAST 2 well timed stuns/Ccs/interrupts of the healer while continuing to burn down the dps while simultaneously using defensive cooldowns. Other than the above... The dps/healer should obviously win the fight. Currently, there are certain strong dps classes that can just do faceroll dps on another dps and drop that player even with a healer spamming uninterrupted heals on his dps. This isn't right! I agree completely with the OP - healing was too strong before 1.2 and almost pointless afterwards. What's the point of healing in a WZ if you can't effectively keep yourself up, much less others... It is my hope that we can meet somewhere in the middle of pre and post 1.2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selphia Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 If there is one change that would be a happy medium, give back the 1s decrease on deliverance for conveyance. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 That's cool, but the baseline comparison is still you + sorc vs. 2x DPS. I'm not dissing your story at all, but there's a lot of question-substitution going on that's confusing the issue at hand. The question is: is it ever beneficial to add a healer instead of another DPS to the team? People keep substituting that question with: are there any benefits to having a healer? But these questions aren't equivalent. Answering the second question (which is obvious) does not lend insight into the first question, it just confuses people. Let's all stop doing that, because honestly MMO forum-goers are confused enough, mirite? I definitely think that is a fair question. And one worth answering. Based my experience it depends on context. If you need to kill somebody fast, well, dps is better. If you need to hold a point, then healers start to become more useful. If you want to win a deathmatch, it depends what you're fighting. Heavy offense : 2DPS > 1 DPS + 1 TANK > 2 TANKS > 1 DPS + 1 HEALER > 1 TANK + 1HEALER > 2 HEALER Heavy defense: 1 HEALER + TANK > 2 TANKS > 2 HEALERS > 1 TANK + 1 DPS > 1 HEALER + 1 DPS > 2 DPS vs 2 DPS: Healer/Tank vs 2 Tanks: healer/healer or dps/healer vs 2 healer: dps dps vs 1 tank 1 dps : tank dps vs 1 tank 1 healer: healer/healer or tank/healer vs 1 healer 1 dps : healer/tank in fact, looking at that, i think the only time i would take a dps over a healer would be if i was fighting 2 healers, or if I was against a tank/dps (i wouldnt be able to protect them). Tank healer wins almost every engagement, and while dps/healer isn't as strong, it's better for killing healer + 1 pairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanfordBlows Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I definitely think that is a fair question. And one worth answering. Based my experience it depends on context. If you need to kill somebody fast, well, dps is better. If you need to hold a point, then healers start to become more useful. If you want to win a deathmatch, it depends what you're fighting. Heavy offense : 2DPS > 1 DPS + 1 TANK > 2 TANKS > 1 DPS + 1 HEALER > 1 TANK + 1HEALER > 2 HEALER Heavy defense: 1 HEALER + TANK > 2 TANKS > 2 HEALERS > 1 TANK + 1 DPS > 1 HEALER + 1 DPS > 2 DPS vs 2 DPS: Healer/Tank vs 2 Tanks: healer/healer or dps/healer vs 2 healer: dps dps vs 1 tank 1 dps : tank dps vs 1 tank 1 healer: healer/healer or tank/healer vs 1 healer 1 dps : healer/tank in fact, looking at that, i think the only time i would take a dps over a healer would be if i was fighting 2 healers, or if I was against a tank/dps (i wouldnt be able to protect them). Tank healer wins almost every engagement, and while dps/healer isn't as strong, it's better for killing healer + 1 pairs. So... Have you ever done any PvPs before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trineda Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hello everyone, In order to keep the forums tidy and conversations in one place please use this thread to discuss the topic of a 'Healer's point of view', we will be closing this current thread. Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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