A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Khoraji]

No...

 

It is a lie when you say something and know it to be untrue...

 

It is a delusion when you say something that is untrue, but believe it...

 

He is delusional!!

 

you guys are gonna make me DL fraps aren't you...

 

The most I can do is post Screenshots when I get home but they never tell the whole story and leave room for excuses.

[Dreydin]

Expertise helps healers and only healers. Bonus DMG and Mitigation now Zero each other out. I will say it again, DPS gets NO benefit from expertise because of mitigation while healers still get +12% at full BM.

 

This alone proves you dont have a clue. So, with my 1158 expertise. Your telling me that my 22% damage increase, and 18% reduction are equal? Do think time to kill isnt affected? And several other relating factors arent also playing into your silly ideas? Everything just balances out to zero? Aside from a bonus to healers?

 

Expertise changes in the patch only serve to widen the gap, and create disparity between healing and damage. You should stop trying to enlighten people with misinformation...

[MrXen]

All I see here is healers whining they can't eliminate the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs in a warzone allowing their team to automatically have a huge advantage...with the biggest advantage going to the team with most healers (up to 8).

 

 

Yes pre 1.2 patch 8 healers > any other combo outside of a more skilled 8 healers. You can "argue" that they wouldn't have enough dps to kill anything for an offensive...but you'd be wrong. 8 healers means an invincible team (literally unkillable) meaning they can slowly dish out numbers (that wouldn't be healed by the enemy team). On top of this most pvp maps revolve around DEFENSIVE strategies and not offensive: look at huttball, the guy who can stay alive is the best ball carrier; look at alderaan, the guys who don't die make sure no one caps their points permanently; look at voidstar, you'll never ever break the first door against 8 healers meaning they can only at WORST tie you or win (impossible to lose).

 

 

It needed fixed. What happened? Healing got a slap on the wrist and is still beast. So now instead of 1 healer eliminating the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs it eliminates 1-3, and now we see a bunch of players who are used to being hercules in the warzone capable of fighting 4 men dying to 2 or 3 really good dps freaking out they "can't do anything anymore." Inevitably they will make the argument "think of how YOU won't get heals because we'll all quit" and an estimated 40% will buy that argument, however the intelligent ones know its just a bs ploy to ensure their class+spec combo is better than any of the others.

[Dreydin]

All I see here is healers whining they can't eliminate the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs in a warzone allowing their team to automatically have a huge advantage...with the biggest advantage going to the team with most healers (up to 8).

 

 

Yes pre 1.2 patch 8 healers > any other combo outside of a more skilled 8 healers. You can "argue" that they wouldn't have enough dps to kill anything for an offensive...but you'd be wrong. 8 healers means an invincible team (literally unkillable) meaning they can slowly dish out numbers (that wouldn't be healed by the enemy team). On top of this most pvp maps revolve around DEFENSIVE strategies and not offensive: look at huttball, the guy who can stay alive is the best ball carrier; look at alderaan, the guys who don't die make sure no one caps their points permanently; look at voidstar, you'll never ever break the first door against 8 healers meaning they can only at WORST tie you or win (impossible to lose).

 

 

It needed fixed. What happened? Healing got a slap on the wrist and is still beast. So now instead of 1 healer eliminating the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs it eliminates 1-3, and now we see a bunch of players who are used to being hercules in the warzone capable of fighting 4 men dying to 2 or 3 really good dps freaking out they "can't do anything anymore." Inevitably they will make the argument "think of how YOU won't get heals because we'll all quit" and an estimated 40% will buy that argument, however the intelligent ones know its just a bs ploy to ensure their class+spec combo is better than any of the others.

 

Its all you have seen, cause your blind to reality. You should ask god not to nerf your ability to think properly.

[Lindraskada]

All I see here is healers whining they can't eliminate the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs in a warzone allowing their team to automatically have a huge advantage...with the biggest advantage going to the team with most healers (up to 8).

 

 

Yes pre 1.2 patch 8 healers > any other combo outside of a more skilled 8 healers. You can "argue" that they wouldn't have enough dps to kill anything for an offensive...but you'd be wrong. 8 healers means an invincible team (literally unkillable) meaning they can slowly dish out numbers (that wouldn't be healed by the enemy team). On top of this most pvp maps revolve around DEFENSIVE strategies and not offensive: look at huttball, the guy who can stay alive is the best ball carrier; look at alderaan, the guys who don't die make sure no one caps their points permanently; look at voidstar, you'll never ever break the first door against 8 healers meaning they can only at WORST tie you or win (impossible to lose).

 

 

It needed fixed. What happened? Healing got a slap on the wrist and is still beast. So now instead of 1 healer eliminating the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs it eliminates 1-3, and now we see a bunch of players who are used to being hercules in the warzone capable of fighting 4 men dying to 2 or 3 really good dps freaking out they "can't do anything anymore." Inevitably they will make the argument "think of how YOU won't get heals because we'll all quit" and an estimated 40% will buy that argument, however the intelligent ones know its just a bs ploy to ensure their class+spec combo is better than any of the others.

 

oh dear. i smell someone who likes to smash his face into his keyboard while playing whatever FOTM reroll is "in" this week and tell everyone how much he rocks

 

does it not strike you as odd, that when a class or 2 is broken, people name them ? and yet then entire game mechanic is being discussed here ? so everyone playing a healing commando/merc/sage/sorc/agent/smuggler are just whining because they feel like it ?

 

i really really hope the pendulum swings the other way, and this happens to DPS, and when it does, someone can come in to these posts, and pick the cream of the replies, and just post them one after another at all you lot who will be crying about how tragic your life is

[Girltank]

Its unfair because healers shouldn't be able to tank a dps for half a game.Dps should be heavier then heals because it got to the stage ((Pre 1.2)) when you would be able to kill a fully geared tank solo in half the time it takes to kill a healer.:eek:Healing just takes more skill now and less 3 button spam.

 

if tanks ever did enough damage to solo a healer nobody would ever play a healer lol.

 

If it is unfair that a dps can't kill a healer solo I challenge you to consider how unfair it is that a healer cannot kill a dps solo especially when the healer is destined to be the attention of any dps that has the common sense to watch for them.

 

additionally consider: if healing does not do more than a single dps does, then it is less effective to stall one dps's damage than to simply provide DPS against said DPS, so that the opposing dps cannot DPS as much.

[Khoraji]

This alone proves you dont have a clue. So, with my 1158 expertise. Your telling me that my 22% damage increase, and 18% reduction are equal? Do think time to kill isnt affected? And several other relating factors arent also playing into your silly ideas? Everything just balances out to zero? Aside from a bonus to healers?

 

Expertise changes in the patch only serve to widen the gap, and create disparity between healing and damage. You should stop trying to enlighten people with misinformation...

 

This only proves you cant do basic math. Lets take a look at the whole picture.

 

Pre 1.2 expertise had a 1-1-1 ratio. So lets say for the sake of easy math that we are at 10%

 

Step 1: "Player 1" does 1000 dmg to player "Player 2"

Step 2: Factor in "Player 1"'s 10% dmg bonus. So now "Player 1" does 1100 dmg to "Player 2"

Step 3: Factor in "Player 2"'s 10% dmg mitigation. So now "Player 1" does 990 dmg to "Player 2"

That is a total of negative 1% to DPS due to expertise using pre 1.2 numbers.

 

Now for 1.2, you are saying DPS got a huge bonus right? Assuming full BM gear you are at about this:

22% bonus dmg

18% dmg mitigation

12% healing

 

Same scenario as above:

Step 1: "Player 1" does 1000 dmg to player "Player 2"

Step 2: Factor in "Player 1"'s 22% dmg bonus. So now "Player 1" does 1220 dmg to "Player 2"

Step 3: Factor in "Player 2"'s 18% dmg mitigation. So now "Player 1" does 1000 dmg to "Player 2"

 

WOW, a wopping 0 percent increase to dmg

 

So comparing pre 1.2 and 1.2 numbers. DPS got a 1% increase to DPS.

 

So if the average DPSer gets 300k dmg per game, they are now getting 303k dmg per game... ZOMG THE GAME IS BROKEN!!!!

 

Oh, and healing is still at +12%...much higher than 0% IMO

Edited April 18, 2012 by Khoraji

[Dreydin]

You DPS can spout your crap all you like. But in the end, you will be fighting a 8v8 dps match. Cause any sane healer isn't going to pay a sub for this crap. I dont play a support role to be a useless team member. I play a support role so I can effectively keep people alive. When everything dies in 4 seconds, and myself in 2, something has to give. And for me, it was my subscription.

 

The best thing of all in this, is now I know which guildies are coming to GW2 with me. Because anyone defending this mess, I dislike, and they can stay here where they belong. So, I can at least use Biowares patch as an idiot filtering tool. So thanks for that Bioware.

 

Again, PVE is fine, it improved. PVP is not better, its far far worse.

[Khoraji]

You DPS can spout your crap all you like. But in the end, you will be fighting a 8v8 dps match. Cause any sane healer isn't going to pay a sub for this crap. I dont play a support role to be a useless team member. I play a support role so I can effectively keep people alive. When everything dies in 4 seconds, and myself in 2, something has to give. And for me, it was my subscription.

 

The best thing of all in this, is now I know which guildies are coming to GW2 with me. Because anyone defending this mess, I dislike, and they can stay here where they belong. So, I can at least use Biowares patch as an idiot filtering tool. So thanks for that Bioware.

 

Again, PVE is fine, it improved. PVP is not better, its far far worse.

 

u mad because you just got owned?

 

If you are going to unsub because you suck at healing (and apparently math too), that is ok. But dont pretend like it is BW's fault.

 

EDIT: BTW i am a healer, i have said this over and over again.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Khoraji

[Dreydin]

u mad because you just got owned?

 

If you are going to unsub because you suck at healing (and apparently math too), that is ok. But dont pretend like it is BW's fault.

 

EDIT: BTW i am a healer, i have said this over and over again.

 

Please refer to my new post about your numbers:)

[MrXen]

oh dear. i smell someone who likes to smash his face into his keyboard while playing whatever FOTM reroll is "in" this week and tell everyone how much he rocks

 

does it not strike you as odd, that when a class or 2 is broken, people name them ? and yet then entire game mechanic is being discussed here ? so everyone playing a healing commando/merc/sage/sorc/agent/smuggler are just whining because they feel like it ?

 

i really really hope the pendulum swings the other way, and this happens to DPS, and when it does, someone can come in to these posts, and pick the cream of the replies, and just post them one after another at all you lot who will be crying about how tragic your life is

 

I rolled merc initially, played healer, it was overpowered and I could easily handle 3-4 dps at lvl 30, got bored, required no skill and was not fun. I then switched to assassin (deception spec) because I thought it looked cool and I liked it, then you forum warriors claimed my class was FOTM overpowered so I bit the bait and rolled an operative (according to forum warriors the most gimped class in dps). I played dps operative and I top damage charts on my team, top killing blows on my team, and retain 10+ medals almost every match (I AM out played from time to time but mostly I perform better than most).

 

 

^ Now that was in response to you claiming I only roll FOTM, a term used by idiots in attempt to discredit valid claims (similar to crooked lawyers).

 

 

After looking at forums in general I can see 90% of the people who come here come to complain and/or whine about something (naturally). So you "claiming" that "everyone" playing a healer spec/class is being legit about their claims means nothing to me considering bioware itself has been quoted for saying healing is too powerful along with all the mathematical evidence provided (and that i'm about to provide again for you since I know you are special).

 

 

Now to refer to the red highlight in your post, you "hope the pendulum swings the other way to DPS" except you fail to realize that DPS has been gimped since day 1 of expertise.

 

 

Math pre 1.2:

 

1000 damage * 1.13 (for a 13% expertise) = 1130 damage

 

1130 incoming damage is now reduced by 13% mitigation --> 1130 - (1130*0.13) = 983.1 damage.

 

 

Quit being dumb and bad. Healers are STILL laughing in the face of dps, as a DPS (0-31-10) operative with 0 points in healing I can out heal a tank's dps in combat and laugh. It is so easy and needs fixed.

[Dreydin]

u mad because you just got owned?

 

If you are going to unsub because you suck at healing (and apparently math too), that is ok. But dont pretend like it is BW's fault.

 

EDIT: BTW i am a healer, i have said this over and over again.

 

And I dont feel owned at all. I feel more correct then ever. I wonder why a person like yourself even needs a UI. Cant you just have matrix like number battles and leave us alone?

[Khoraji]

I see here, theory craft, theory craft, theory craft. Have you tried using your eyes in game? I could care less what your precious numbers add up too. The end result is, people are dying WAY faster now as whole. So carry on, with your geeky number add ups. I am sure your formula will appease everyone, and they will just start having fun cause of your equation.

 

The same people like yourself that follow the whitepaper results and take them as gold, are the same nubs that cant figure out why I trash them on damage/healing charts.

 

So the guy that starts posting numbers wants to take his toys and go home when he realizes he is completely wrong.

 

Numbers dont lie. And I do use my eyes, I started off in this thread saying healing is fine because of my own personal experience suggests that nothing is wrong with it. If I can heal fine, my guild mates can heal fine, but you cant...where do you think the problem is?

[Khoraji]

And I dont feel owned at all. I feel more correct then ever. I wonder why a person like yourself even needs a UI. Cant you just have matrix like number battles and leave us alone?

 

lol, I am no number cruncher. Percentages are easily done. It is no ones fault but your own if you skipped 3rd grade math. Didnt you and your other terribad healer friend bring up expertise percentages in the first place anyway?

[MrXen]

I see here, theory craft, theory craft, theory craft. Have you tried using your eyes in game? I could care less what your precious numbers add up too. The end result is, people are dying WAY faster now as whole. So carry on, with your geeky number add ups. I am sure your formula will appease everyone, and they will just start having fun cause of your equation.

 

The same people like yourself that follow the whitepaper results and take them as gold, are the same nubs that cant figure out why I trash them on damage/healing charts.

 

 

This is why everyone with a brain knows you are wrong. Geeky number add ups? Lol? Its 3rd grade math literally. Geeky? Are you a 1980's "jock" playing a star wars MMO now "pwning" those "nub geeks"?

 

 

There is no theory here, there is no equation, Bioware PROVIDES these numbers, LOOK at your expertise %'s right now in-game and determine their effective result. Guarantee it'll be what I said. Why? Because there is no magic equation, its listed in your character details you incoherent ape.

 

 

And from your anecdotal "evidence" of "how you feel in game" my experience is people are dying at fairly the same rate. The fact you attempt to insult me for providing evidence whereas you tell everyone to "believe me because how I feel in-game is truth" is in all honesty giving me a good laugh in my comfy chair here. Thank you, you have boosted my self-esteem today and I feel much better now that I know: at LEAST I'm not you.

[Khoraji]

This is why everyone with a brain knows you are wrong. Geeky number add ups? Lol? Its 3rd grade math literally. Geeky? Are you a 1980's "jock" playing a star wars MMO now "pwning" those "nub geeks"?

 

 

There is no theory here, there is no equation, Bioware PROVIDES these numbers, LOOK at your expertise %'s right now in-game and determine their effective result. Guarantee it'll be what I said. Why? Because there is no magic equation, its listed in your character details you incoherent ape.

 

 

And from your anecdotal "evidence" of "how you feel in game" my experience is people are dying at fairly the same rate. The fact you attempt to insult me for providing evidence whereas you tell everyone to "believe me because how I feel in-game is truth" is in all honesty giving me a good laugh in my comfy chair here. Thank you, you have boosted my self-esteem today and I feel much better now that I know: at LEAST I'm not you.

 

I wish there were more people like you on the forums...

[Sathid]

All I see here is healers whining they can't eliminate the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs in a warzone allowing their team to automatically have a huge advantage...with the biggest advantage going to the team with most healers (up to 8).

 

 

Yes pre 1.2 patch 8 healers > any other combo outside of a more skilled 8 healers. You can "argue" that they wouldn't have enough dps to kill anything for an offensive...but you'd be wrong. 8 healers means an invincible team (literally unkillable) meaning they can slowly dish out numbers (that wouldn't be healed by the enemy team). On top of this most pvp maps revolve around DEFENSIVE strategies and not offensive: look at huttball, the guy who can stay alive is the best ball carrier; look at alderaan, the guys who don't die make sure no one caps their points permanently; look at voidstar, you'll never ever break the first door against 8 healers meaning they can only at WORST tie you or win (impossible to lose).

 

 

It needed fixed. What happened? Healing got a slap on the wrist and is still beast. So now instead of 1 healer eliminating the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs it eliminates 1-3, and now we see a bunch of players who are used to being hercules in the warzone capable of fighting 4 men dying to 2 or 3 really good dps freaking out they "can't do anything anymore." Inevitably they will make the argument "think of how YOU won't get heals because we'll all quit" and an estimated 40% will buy that argument, however the intelligent ones know its just a bs ploy to ensure their class+spec combo is better than any of the others.

 

5 stars couldnt have said it better myself,,,

Edited April 18, 2012 by Sathid

[Dreydin]

So the guy that starts posting numbers wants to take his toys and go home when he realizes he is completely wrong.

 

Numbers dont lie. And I do use my eyes, I started off in this thread saying healing is fine because of my own personal experience suggests that nothing is wrong with it. If I can heal fine, my guild mates can heal fine, but you cant...where do you think the problem is?

 

Actually I didnt go anywhere. And what do you define as doing fine? I still get wins, I still get over 700k healing in PVP matches(voidstar). I am however, not having fun like a lot of people would agree. What I am bringing to light, is the disparity between healing effectiveness and damage output. But keep clinging to your numbers. Numbers dont lie, thats true. But you and other geeks decide which raw figures are to be compared. What about heal activation times, and GCD's. When things die faster, you have to accomodate them into your math, do you not?

 

I am not a math geek, but I what I am trying to say is, it seems like your math is equivalent to a throughput equation. And its not taking into account the burst aspects.

 

Let me ask you this, your equation shows you that healing is increased, and mitigation and damage output are the same? So if thats the case, your saying the time to kill has increased? Because healing is better? Whereas damage and mitigation did not change(in respect to the increase to heals your talking about)?

 

 

 

Maybe I am totally confused here. But if I am right, I now know whats wrong with Bioware.

[JustTray]

This is why everyone with a brain knows you are wrong. Geeky number add ups? Lol? Its 3rd grade math literally. Geeky? Are you a 1980's "jock" playing a star wars MMO now "pwning" those "nub geeks"?

 

 

There is no theory here, there is no equation, Bioware PROVIDES these numbers, LOOK at your expertise %'s right now in-game and determine their effective result. Guarantee it'll be what I said. Why? Because there is no magic equation, its listed in your character details you incoherent ape.

 

 

And from your anecdotal "evidence" of "how you feel in game" my experience is people are dying at fairly the same rate. The fact you attempt to insult me for providing evidence whereas you tell everyone to "believe me because how I feel in-game is truth" is in all honesty giving me a good laugh in my comfy chair here. Thank you, you have boosted my self-esteem today and I feel much better now that I know: at LEAST I'm not you.

 

Since youre so insistent...

 

You realize youre arguing against yourself right?

 

Your numbers PROVE that healing has been nerfed relative to dps from 1.1.5 to 1.2.

 

Just because the ratios changed so that damage is now balanced with mitigation does not mean everytthing is "fixed."

 

Your premise is that since the ratios were adjusted, everytthing is now correct. Yet everyone else is arguing dps has received massive gains compared to dps. You mathematically proved that.

 

Now i suggest you take some logic and basic reading comprehension. Youre good on the math, weak on the critical thinking.

[Dreydin]

I have not done a single math equation, nor would I want too. All I did was quote my expertise percentages. Feel free to quote me doing math equations. I am basing my posts on what I see before my very eyes, when I see people dying in 3 seconds. Its seems some of you math geeks are taking answers from equations and dis-regarding reality.

 

Feel free to call me a dumb third grader all you like. You have every right to defend your equations. But you should feel lucky I can't grab you by the skull and do what I want to you.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Dreydin

[JustTray]

Again for the downs kids.

 

A change of the expertise ratio from 1-1-1 to 2-1.5-1 represents a buff to dps and a nerf to heals, by definition.

 

There is no arguing this fact. You can only argue where you personally believe the balance neutral spot is. From thr feedback since ptr its very obvious that healers dont find it to be in a good spot.

[Khoraji]

Actually I didnt go anywhere. And what do you define as doing fine? I still get wins, I still get over 700k healing in PVP matches(voidstar). I am however, not having fun like a lot of people would agree. What I am bringing to light, is the disparity between healing effectiveness and damage output. But keep clinging to your numbers. Numbers dont lie, thats true. But you and other geeks decide which raw figures are to be compared. What about heal activation times, and GCD's. When things die faster, you have to accomodate them into your math, do you not?

 

I am not a math geek, but I what I am trying to say is, it seems like your math is equivalent to a throughput equation. And its not taking into account the burst aspects.

 

Let me ask you this, your equation shows you that healing is increased, and mitigation and damage output are the same? So if thats the case, your saying the time to kill has increased? Because healing is better? Whereas damage and mitigation did not change(in respect to the increase to heals your talking about)?

 

 

 

Maybe I am totally confused here. But if I am right, I now know whats wrong with Bioware.

 

Read MrXen's reply to your "geek" insult. I didn't know 3rd grade math was considered a math geek. These numbers are provided to you in your character sheet, it is no secret.

 

As for your question. I am saying time to kill has not changed (due to expertise). I was at 12% healing pre 1.2 and I am at 12% after 1.2.

 

2/3 Healing CLASSES got nerfed. This has nothing to do with expertise. For mercs, it was our heat management and our bonus CD's that got the nerf. And it was needed. Operative healers got a buff, so they have nothing to complain about. Sorc healers I have heard got their cast time and resource management nerfed.

 

Some classes also got a little bit of a burst dmg buff, but nothing crazy.

 

Also, PvP gear has less endurance now, when 1.2 hit my health decreased by about 1000.

 

Did 1.2 make it so people die faster? Yes. Is it as bad as the QQ in these forums make it out to be? No. Is it game breaking? No.

[JustTray]

I have not done a single math equation, nor would I want too. All I did was quote my expertise percentages. Feel free to quote me doing math equations. I am basing my posts on what I see before my very eyes, when I see people dying in 3 seconds. Its seems some of you math geeks are taking answers from equations and dis-regarding reality.

 

Feel free to call me a dumb third grader all you like. You have every right to defend your equations. But you should feel lucky I can't grab you by the skull and do what I want to you.

 

Dont bother. His math proves your point. He was arguing from an invalid premise so thr rest of his posts are useless.

[Khoraji]

Since youre so insistent...

 

You realize youre arguing against yourself right?

 

Your numbers PROVE that healing has been nerfed relative to dps from 1.1.5 to 1.2.

 

Just because the ratios changed so that damage is now balanced with mitigation does not mean everytthing is "fixed."

 

Your premise is that since the ratios were adjusted, everytthing is now correct. Yet everyone else is arguing dps has received massive gains compared to dps. You mathematically proved that.

 

Now i suggest you take some logic and basic reading comprehension. Youre good on the math, weak on the critical thinking.

 

our math proved that DPS got a 1% increase due to the mitigation nerf.

 

That is not game breaking and pretending it is just makes you look like a troll

[thetussin]

Since the start of the game, this is my second visit to the forums, and was to specifically try to find out if some changes were made to healing. In short, whatever was changed is HIGHLY noticeable. Played a 50 Sorcerer since launch, and spent 90% of my PVP time as a healer. Ranked up well, Champion+, and then decided to try Rep. Always loved the Trooper look, and again as a Commando I spend almost every WZ as a healer. With the changes, healers will now be non-existent. As someone who very much enjoyed playing a healer I am now at a loss as to what to do with the game. I loved bringing that dynamic to a PvP fight, now I am a distraction at best.