Darth_Philar Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Going forward, Healers are actually a hinderance to your team. Pre 1.2 Healers contributed the following: 1. They provided a primary target for the other team to focus which allowed your team to strategize around them. 2. They provided healing to their teammates allowing them to survive encounters with enemy players. 3. They provided a distraction by being able to "run away" and have several enemy players follow them allowing their team to complete objectives with less enemy interference. Post 1.2, the items above changed: 1. Healers are no longer a primary target as they do not pose a threat to enemy DPS whatsoever. Further, healers now die faster so even if the other team does waste their time focusing the healer that focus will last all of 2 GCDs. 2. The healing output has been reduced to the point where a healer can no longer support any of their DPS who are engaged. Their only job now is to top off players who survive the cluster-****. 3. As they are no longer important, they will no longer be able to pull any enemy players away from the objective zone eliminating their ability to be a distraction. There are no tactical or strategic advantages to playing a healer in PvP going forward. Good teams may keep one around for some utility, but most teams will drop tanks and healers (that's right tanks, your usefulness is highly dependent upon having a healer) and run 4 man DPS squads. COD, here we come. Edited April 13, 2012 by Darth_Philar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I am still waiting for you to do the math and see that I am right. Expertise does nothing for DPS while giving us a +12% bonus.. You should look at your char sheet again and hover over expertise. Let me know what you dmg, damage reduction, and healing are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) your funny. what servr are you on? i guarentee its a low pop unorganizwed server where the DPS doesnt actually know how to target you. and thank god your smart enough to roll with a tank. like the other dude said... the protection you received helped alot Edited April 15, 2012 by Trineda removed quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genjuuro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I have to agree with just about everything the OP has said. Playing a sage I really feel the nerf hammer and its just no fun being a healer now. Not at all. Hey I know exactly how to help you...3 easy steps Step 1: Learn to heal. Step 2: Learn to heal. Step 3: Learn to heal. Ok ok im joking...but seriously learn to heal and if you cant respec DPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 his team lost badly tho haha! And? You ever lose a match? Look at my healing/damage taken. Healing is still fine, its the DPS that needs help on my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Post 1.2, the items above changed: 1. Healers are no longer a primary target as they do not pose a threat to enemy DPS whatsoever. WHAT! ^ I stopped and about threw-up in my mouth, I can't believe someone with a brain can actually say that with a straight face. Let me guess you think a healer staying alive is not a threat when it comes to winning Warzones? I am laughing sooo hard right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemic_al Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 So OP, on the one hand you were happy that you and a guard could frustrate the heck out of 4 or more dpsers and not go down, but on the other you don't recognize a problem here that healing was overpowered. I won't for one moment argue that it has swung far too far in the other direction with DPS being prominent, but something was out of whack with healing pre 1.2 Given sorcs and sages had their heal spec nerfed, I really can't see any reason for the new expertise formula which gives a huge boost to dps over tanking and healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 WHAT! ^ I stopped and about threw-up in my mouth, I can't believe someone with a brain can actually say that with a straight face. Let me guess you think a healer staying alive is not a threat when it comes to winning Warzones? I am laughing sooo hard right now. your DPS right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 your funny. what servr are you on? i guarentee its a low pop unorganizwed server where the DPS doesnt actually know how to target you. and thank god your smart enough to roll with a tank. like the other dude said... the protection you received helped alot Its called teamwork. I am on Ven Zallow, we were facing pre-mades in all 3 of my SS Lets see some of your games. But according to your QQ, you probably have 20 deaths and 90k healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 And? You ever lose a match? Look at my healing/damage taken. Healing is still fine, its the DPS that needs help on my team. the fact that you play with and against bad dps doesn't make healing fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 SO MANY DPS DEFENDING THE NERF HAHA. go get your kills and keep losing matches ya baddies... since its all you want anyways.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 the fact that you play with and against bad dps doesn't make healing fine. and you know those people to be bad dpsers? Yea, thought so. Healing is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBSooner Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Maybe it's just me (being a number-runner in WoW, Rift, LotRO, GW, EQ 1/2, AoC, Eve, STO, WAR) but instead of seeing a long multi-paragraph story of the "healing woes", I'd rather see some sample comparisons of incoming damage vs outgoing healing potentials for equally geared individuals on the same target. Typing out battle stories is great and all, but unless you can say "I heal for 6000 in my 10 second rotation and they hit for 12000 in their 10 second rotation X number of times during my Y number sample size" then I'd be hard pressed to see anything happening to fix your grievances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 SO MANY DPS DEFENDING THE NERF HAHA. go get your kills and keep losing matches ya baddies... since its all you want anyways.. Hey... still waiting on you to admit that expertise does nothing for DPS and everything for healers. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Its called teamwork. I am on Ven Zallow, we were facing pre-mades in all 3 of my SS Lets see some of your games. But according to your QQ, you probably have 20 deaths and 90k healing. come to Helm of Graush and you will see exactly what i mean bubba... Edited April 13, 2012 by KaoticEmbrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Very well written/thought out prime post and, as a fully heal-spec'ed Sorcerer, I feel the pain of the OP. The crux of a healer is the ability to negate damage done through (*gasp*) healing. That is the core concept of the role. If a healer can no longer support his/her team in that role, then what is the point of the healer? Think of it like water in a bucket- A dps' job is to poke holes in the bucket and a healer's job is to refill the water. There should be a point of balance in dps output and healing- meaning that a fully heal spec'ed/geared class should be able to equal in healing a single, equally spec'ed/geared dps class' damage output. Water in should = water out in that aspect. It should be a draw. That is the core concept of the class roles. Now, alter the variables by adding in the human element and the outcome should be affected equally in turn. Reaction times, use of abilities, RNG, and overall player skill (yeap, I went there...) should be the deciding factor in the end outcome. Now, the tipping point in the balance of things is the fact that in SWTOR, all classes are also hybridized dps. There is no true 'pure' healer in this game but there is pure dps/tanking, and that (not the healing itself) is what I believe caused much of the base problem in role design. No, in PvP healing should not be about the ability to "negate damages done through (*gasp*) healing." In PvP the point of healing is to keep DPS alive long enough to kill the other DPS. Everything else being equal between DPS the side with the healer, or better healer, should win. Even if the DPS ends with 1% health left. P.S. Hybrids - with the current changes hybrids are dying (which was the intent) so healers, along with DPS, are moving more toward the "pure" category. The major difference for me so far is making sure I choose the survival skills from my primary tree. Edited April 13, 2012 by Erasimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 your DPS right... Look my sig and read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 WHAT! ^ I stopped and about threw-up in my mouth, I can't believe someone with a brain can actually say that with a straight face. Let me guess you think a healer staying alive is not a threat when it comes to winning Warzones? I am laughing sooo hard right now. When a healer cannot keep a friendly DPS alive in a 2v1 scenario then the healer is not a threat. The enemy DPS will simply kill the friendly DPS and then kill the healer. These changes have made it difficult (but not impossible) to keep a friendly alive in a 2v1 scenario. These changes have, however, made it impossible to keep a friendly alive in a 2v2 scenario. This means that the side with 2 DPS will always beat the side with 1 DPS and 1 Healer, regardless of the kill order. That means Healers are no longer a threat. Sure, you are still going to get focused for a bit until people learn the new meta, but once they do you are quickly going to lose your spot on a premade. Have fun getting stomped in your solo queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 and you know those people to be bad dpsers? Yea, thought so. Healing is fine. you're playing with dps that can't get over 200k per match. yeah, they're bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImariKurumi Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) @OP Sorry but no point in trying to make DPS players understand how healers work or get any sympathy votes so devs can revise the healing system. Healers probably make up 20% of the population, 70% are DPS, and maybe 10% are tanks, we cant never win against 70% of the selfish, arrogant, ignorant population... Ever since the first MMO till now, all DPS players have the mindset of "able to pawn everything in 1v1, especially healers", its always been about them. I, me, mine, we healers will never be in the limelight. Have you seen any DPS siding us? Hardly, look through this thread, we have tons of DPS trolling you, trying to "console" or "support" you, saying its "for the best". Trolling at its finest... I kept blaming Devs for these aggravating changes, but sadly, it isnt really their fault, its the DPS players themselves, if 70% of the population says we healers are OP, then majority wins. No choice bro... Humans are selfish by nature, but DPS players bring out the true meaning of the word... Edited April 13, 2012 by ImariKurumi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 come to Helm of Graush and you will see exactly what i mean bubba... No one cares or knows about your server. if you think your server is full of the best DPS, you are delusional. Lets see some screenshots of this terrible healing you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 full BM gear. with half the average healing output.. not over all but direct heals. i get most of my overall healing(or a bunch) for matches Through the Kolto missile buff which just added 1 more person getting healed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 you're playing with dps that can't get over 200k per match. yeah, they're bad. ^ my thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarabelle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Okay I will add my 2 cents from a healer and DPS perspective as fairly as I can. I play the game with my boyfriend. He is a DPS and I'm a healer. We queue all our warzones together and try to stay together the whole game so I can heal bot him and he can save me. We're still relatively new to PvP (read valor rank ~55, mostly Centurion gear still). I have a Smuggler healer and a BH healer. With 1.2 my BH healer overheats significantly faster than before 1.2. In 1v1 with a DPS I can count on it that if I cannot escape or do not get help from a team member, I will die. My Smuggler does not feel as hard hit by 1.2 as my BH but it still feels harder to keep my team alive. My boyfriend was frustrated with me all night last night while we were playing as he felt that I was not doing my job. I tried to explain that with the healing changes I just cannot keep him and myself up anymore when most games I am focused and killed pretty quickly. As someone else in a previous post said, it is frustrating that DPS do not feel the need to have team work to get something done. The idea of needing 2 DPS in a joint effort to kill a healer is just unthinkable but people expect healers to be totally okay being completely dependent on team members. I have a DPS character and I can say that it was basically impossible to solo kill a healer prior to 1.2 but I feel that now it is almost impossible for me to survive the solo DPS trying to burn me down while I try to keep my boyfriend healed also. I normally get an MVP vote or 2 for healing but last night I did PvP all night, healed my absolute best and got 3 MVP votes total for the entire afternoon and evening. That shows me that the lack of healing is apparent to my team and they no longer feel that healers are all that valuable to the team. I heard a lot of complaining about how overpowered healers were pre 1.2 from my brothers who both play DPS and my boyfriend. They all pointed out (frequently) how healers are practically impossible to kill. I do feel that healing needed a little balancing but I feel that it got taken a bit far. To be completely fair, it is possible that once I finish gearing my healers I will feel differently and obviously the game is not balanced around undergeared players. I expect to be less effective than someone much better geared than myself but I also expect that when I'm playing a warzone doing my job the best I can that I can see (and my team can see) that I am actually contributing to the team and making some difference. I reserve the right to change my opinion as I spend more time playing 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoticEmbrace Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 No one cares or knows about your server. if you think your server is full of the best DPS, you are delusional. Lets see some screenshots of this terrible healing you are doing. keep popping out your fail dps Screen shots and i just may have to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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