Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[chaosdefined]

Why else play a MMO if not to paly a game with other people that share a common interest.

 

Exactly, so why put up barriers between servers and refuse to play with everyone in the game?

[chaosdefined]

Also, I still feel this is the best solution for everyone:

 

Have the option to queue for either Single Server or Cross Server when you're selecting your role and Flashpoint.

 

Then both groups can be happy.

[sorter]

A cross server flashpoint finder is needed because even with a server only fp finder there is not enuff players on most servers to get a group together.sure it would be great if there was a community of players that wanted to do the same thing as me at the same time and one was a tank and another a healer and one a ranged dps so the could join my mdps in a group and play swtor its just not going to happen.I gave up after trying to get a group for over 3 days about 6-7 hours a day lookin for a group to do a hard mode.even if there is 150 players on the fleet they just pvp and wait to blow up with the world event ghoul thing and maybe there is 2 -3 groups spaming for a tank IN VAIN FOR AN HOUR OR TWO in general to do a hard mode.like it or not a server only fp finder will not be enuff it has to be cross server right now the only way to play is to lvl an alt and play single player.the only way to make a community of players that groups together is a cross server fp finder .THIS IS OUR DARKEST HOUR HELP US BIOWARE YOURE OUR ONLY HOPE!

[marseluswallace]

I think its funny that people believe the LFG tool or Dungeon Finder will solve all of our grouping problems, when it won't solve a thing.

 

Case in point. Last night I wanted to do some Heroics on Hoth, so I set myself to LFG and put in the comment that I wanted to do Hoth Heroics. I don't even have to spam a message I just ask if anyone wants to do heroics. One guy says yes, and then I get some ********es yada yada...anyways dude joins. I notice that someone else in the WHO MENU is LFG too for the same reasons. I whisper him asking if he wants to join. I get no response. I ask again. No response. So I'm like whatever hes afk. We get to the spot, and low and behold hes there with one other person. I ask him to join us to have a full group. He ignores us...do you see where this is going?

 

People just DON'T want to group with people they don't know in this game.

 

And lets say an LFG tool gets put into this game. Now everyone will QQ about how LFG tool is teaming them up with idiots that don't know what they're doing and the unsub threats begin again.

Edited April 22, 2012 by marseluswallace
errors

[Cassidan]

I think its funny that people believe the LFG tool or Dungeon Finder will solve all of our grouping problems, when it won't solve a thing.

 

Case in point. Last night I wanted to do some Heroics on Hoth, so I set myself to LFG and put in the comment that I wanted to do Hoth Heroics. I don't even have to spam a message I just ask if anyone wants to do heroics. One guy says yes, and then I get some ********es yada yada...anyways dude joins. I notice that someone else in the WHO MENU is LFG too for the same reasons. I whisper him asking if he wants to join. I get no response. I ask again. No response. So I'm like whatever hes afk. We get to the spot, and low and behold hes there with one other person. I ask him to join us to have a full group. He ignores us...do you see where this is going?

 

People just DON'T want to group with people they don't know in this game.

 

And lets say an LFG tool gets put into this game. Now everyone will QQ about how LFG tool is teaming them up with idiots that don't know what they're doing and the unsub threats begin again.

 

So if they are upset about being grouped with "idiots" then they can choose not to use the LFG tool and spam General Chat or use a different method. However, those of us who wish to use a LFG tool should not be hindered because of something as trivial as this. If someone doesn't want to group with strangers.....they would not be forced to.

[SoulJahSoul]

I really dnt see the game growing much with out the LFG tool. Those that don't want a LFG tool dont use the thing run with guilides or friends, form your own group. Just cuz a game has a LFG tool doesn't mean thats the only way into a flashpoint. LFG tool for running ops is not really needed more of a elite group u dont want a bunch of people queing up not even having a clue of what to do. Any1 that would even consider quing up for a ops is a joker. So LFG tool for Flashpoints is a must, LFG tool 4 ops would be a waste of Biowares money. If you cant get into groups to run Flash Points it doesnt give you the chance to and learn ur roles, to get better gear so people would even consider to let u run in a ops with them. Then poeple start dying off looking for entertainment else where. Thats what Facebook is 4 if i wanted to chat I'd just chat on facebook its free i don't have to pay to chat on that.

[Sewerus]

Your solution to low population servers is to abandon them? That's not a solution.

 

Cross Server LFG isn't for making friends, it's for players to experience the content they are paying money for. If you want to make friends, start a conversation in General Chat.

 

Nothing in this game provides strong disincentives towards bad behaviour. Have you not seen the huge thread with people complaining about players needing on gear for their companions?

 

I'm sorry, but your points are weak.

 

No offence but you are not paying money to see the content, you are paying money for be able to play the game.

 

Just you are paying that doesn't mean you are entitled to everything you know

[Sewerus]

I really dnt see the game growing much with out the LFG tool. Those that don't want a LFG tool dont use the thing run with guilides or friends, form your own group. Just cuz a game has a LFG tool doesn't mean thats the only way into a flashpoint. LFG tool for running ops is not really needed more of a elite group u dont want a bunch of people queing up not even having a clue of what to do. Any1 that would even consider quing up for a ops is a joker. So LFG tool for Flashpoints is a must, LFG tool 4 ops would be a waste of Biowares money. If you cant get into groups to run Flash Points it doesnt give you the chance to and learn ur roles, to get better gear so people would even consider to let u run in a ops with them. Then poeple start dying off looking for entertainment else where. Thats what Facebook is 4 if i wanted to chat I'd just chat on facebook its free i don't have to pay to chat on that.

 

You dungeon finder is world of warcraft, was added in the end of 2009, yet before everyone was doing dungeons the normal way and weren't complaining like in this thread.

 

As I stated above you pay money to play the game and not to get everything you on silver plate.

 

I really like how game is now since you really need to have friends, guild to go to flashpoints, you need to work to get into flashpoints, and not just go with randoms to dungeons, there is no fun with it.

[chaosdefined]

You dungeon finder is world of warcraft, was added in the end of 2009, yet before everyone was doing dungeons the normal way and weren't complaining like in this thread.

 

As I stated above you pay money to play the game and not to get everything you on silver plate.

 

I really like how game is now since you really need to have friends, guild to go to flashpoints, you need to work to get into flashpoints, and not just go with randoms to dungeons, there is no fun with it.

 

/facepalm

 

Of course people were complaining, why do you think they put in a Dungeon Finder in the first place?!

 

And yes, we pay to play the game, currently we are not getting to play a lot of the game because there are not enough people of the same level range to group up with.

 

"You need to work to get into flashpoints" is one of the worst statements. This is a game it is not an achievement. It is to be fun. People will not pay money to have to work on getting others to group with them for hours to be able to do one Flashpoint.

If any company thought like that their product would fail.

[Katahn]

How will a cross-server dungeon finder help people on low population servers do heroic missions (they aren't instanced after all)?

 

That question is the single best counter-argument to cross-server dungeon finders as a mechanism to help people on low population servers. It can't help them do anything but flashpoints and flashpoints, while nice, actually don't do as nice a job as heroics do for giving you loot (at least while levelling up). A flashpoint will give you a chance at getting loot from 3-5 bosses. That loot may or may not be for your class and you may or may not face competition for getting it. A heroic will give you a guaranteed reward of a nice blue or orange or, failing that, commendations. Furthermore the heroic can be repeated daily and a good heroic group can become a good FP group.

 

All of this is entirely beside the point of the effect a cross-server LFG tool has on collective player behavior. I've seen in it WoW and I've seen it in Rift. The adventure zones empty out as people cluster in the capitol cities and wait for their dungeon pop. Minus class quests you'd never see anyone on any of the worlds after a while - so forget world pvp or doing heroics. People complain this game is too solitary already, trust me when I say that based on what I saw in the two other games that have implemented such a tool that it can get much, much worse.

[chaosdefined]

How will a cross-server dungeon finder help people on low population servers do heroic missions (they aren't instanced after all)?

 

That question is the single best counter-argument to cross-server dungeon finders as a mechanism to help people on low population servers. It can't help them do anything but flashpoints and flashpoints, while nice, actually don't do as nice a job as heroics do for giving you loot (at least while levelling up). A flashpoint will give you a chance at getting loot from 3-5 bosses. That loot may or may not be for your class and you may or may not face competition for getting it. A heroic will give you a guaranteed reward of a nice blue or orange or, failing that, commendations. Furthermore the heroic can be repeated daily and a good heroic group can become a good FP group.

 

All of this is entirely beside the point of the effect a cross-server LFG tool has on collective player behavior. I've seen in it WoW and I've seen it in Rift. The adventure zones empty out as people cluster in the capitol cities and wait for their dungeon pop. Minus class quests you'd never see anyone on any of the worlds after a while - so forget world pvp or doing heroics. People complain this game is too solitary already, trust me when I say that based on what I saw in the two other games that have implemented such a tool that it can get much, much worse.

 

Well for starters, people are asking for a Group Finder for doing Flashpoints. So if the best counter-argument is that it won't help them do something they're not asking for it for...then you're admitting there is no argument against it.

 

People cluster in the Fleet currently trying to get groups or waiting for PVP queues to pop, so that argument falls flat.

 

From what I've heard there barely is any world pvp as it is anyway. Also people will still do heroics because whilst they're levelling they'll say "Anyone for this Heroic quest?", much like happens in those other games currently.

 

And that is your problem, you're too busy thinking about those other games instead of thinking about how SWTOR could do their own version of it.

[JediRyuk]

Honestly, I think that if legacy players need to live without a dungeon finder; okay. At least improve the LFG tool, allowing players to select what FP's/HM/H's they are interested in, do not add a role option, just a comment (For all the immersion-breaking people.); leaders can view from a structured list who is interested in what and send them an invite. This allows people to toggle LFG on any planet instead of just hoping people notice you on the station.

[Katahn]

Well for starters, people are asking for a Group Finder for doing Flashpoints. So if the best counter-argument is that it won't help them do something they're not asking for it for...then you're admitting there is no argument against it.

 

Its an argument against the notion that a cross-server LFG tool is going to be a substantive help for low population realms - it won't be. It will help you get a small subsection of groups going on but won't help for anything that isn't 100% instanced .

 

People cluster in the Fleet currently trying to get groups or waiting for PVP queues to pop, so that argument falls flat.

 

I thought the argument in favor of a XLFG tool was that there was no one on the Fleet to form groups for Flashpoints. You're saying here there are people already clustered on the Fleet... so how are you having a problem finding Flashpoints?

 

From what I've heard there barely is any world pvp as it is anyway. Also people will still do heroics because whilst they're levelling they'll say "Anyone for this Heroic quest?", much like happens in those other games currently.

 

Ask the pvp servers about that - just rest assured that whatever quantity of world pvp there is now there won't be any after a XLFG tool goes live. Just ask the folks on pvp servers in WoW about that.

 

And that is your problem, you're too busy thinking about those other games instead of thinking about how SWTOR could do their own version of it.

 

Every version of it so far has produced identical results. There's absolutely no reason to expect SWTOR would be any different. It isn't the tool, it is the nature of humans - we want the most reward for the least work and risk. Standing around a capitol city waiting for a FP pop turns out to be much better risk/reward than actually going out and levelling in the two games that currently have it.

 

The very reason people are asking for it is the reason it will have the deleterious effects we've already seen in other games. A group finder takes all the work out of finding a group - just queue and wait. There's no reason to ever leave the capitol because right there in the Fleet you already have everything you need - trainers for everything, GTN, vendors, flashpoint quest givers, etc. The only reason people would leave would be for class quests...

 

And with class quests I can predict that shortly after XLFG lands that it will also include "queue for class quests" with people clamoring for an option that lets a class quest run count as a completion for everybody of that class who has the quest.

 

Given the two existing games with XLFG tools both have followed the same pattern of player behavior after the tool was implemented I would submit the burden of proof that SWTOR will be the exception is on the people claiming SWTOR will be the exception. To this end an admission that these effects existed in other games from the pro-XLFG tool would go a long way in establishing some kind of credibility for the argument.

[chaosdefined]

Its an argument against the notion that a cross-server LFG tool is going to be a substantive help for low population realms - it won't be. It will help you get a small subsection of groups going on but won't help for anything that isn't 100% instanced .

Once again, people are asking for a Group Finder for Flashpoints, so stating it won't help with Heroics is not a valid argument against it.

 

 

 

I thought the argument in favor of a XLFG tool was that there was no one on the Fleet to form groups for Flashpoints. You're saying here there are people already clustered on the Fleet... so how are you having a problem finding Flashpoints?

I'm really concerned as to why you're asking this question. I'll try to explain it anyway.

You said that with a XLFG tool people will just sit in the fleet waiting for groups. I said that's what they do anyway. We're saying at least with a Group Finder tool they can queue up and then go off to different planets and do other things. The reason they're having problem getting groups is because there's not enough people of that level range around for getting a Flashpoint, or who are on the Fleet looking for that HM. Get it?

 

 

Ask the pvp servers about that - just rest assured that whatever quantity of world pvp there is now there won't be any after a XLFG tool goes live. Just ask the folks on pvp servers in WoW about that.

I would, but I'm sort of failing to see how a Flashpoint Finder will affect PVP since they're two seperate parts of the game?

 

 

Every version of it so far has produced identical results. There's absolutely no reason to expect SWTOR would be any different. It isn't the tool, it is the nature of humans - we want the most reward for the least work and risk. Standing around a capitol city waiting for a FP pop turns out to be much better risk/reward than actually going out and levelling in the two games that currently have it.

 

The very reason people are asking for it is the reason it will have the deleterious effects we've already seen in other games. A group finder takes all the work out of finding a group - just queue and wait. There's no reason to ever leave the capitol because right there in the Fleet you already have everything you need - trainers for everything, GTN, vendors, flashpoint quest givers, etc. The only reason people would leave would be for class quests...

 

And with class quests I can predict that shortly after XLFG lands that it will also include "queue for class quests" with people clamoring for an option that lets a class quest run count as a completion for everybody of that class who has the quest.

 

Given the two existing games with XLFG tools both have followed the same pattern of player behavior after the tool was implemented I would submit the burden of proof that SWTOR will be the exception is on the people claiming SWTOR will be the exception. To this end an admission that these effects existed in other games from the pro-XLFG tool would go a long way in establishing some kind of credibility for the argument.

 

Once again, you're blaming the tool for people. You're saying everyone else in the game is nasty and will steal your loot.

 

Your argument about queue for class quests is, I'm sorry, completely unreal. You're now grasping at straws and exaggerating everything to beyond intelligence. Which is more evidence that you really don't have any actual argument.

 

 

My responses are in red.

Edited April 23, 2012 by chaosdefined

[ZionHalcyon]

You can not care all you want, but the concerns are valid.

The presence of a cross server dungeon finder is the difference between an online multiplayer co op game and an mmorpg.

 

Thankfully, the developers said the incoming FP finder will be server wide only.

 

This to me is where the disconnect is. Almost NO ONE from the BEGINNING said there should be a cross server finder. ALMOST NO ONE.

 

But I see it brought up as a weak red herring argument from certain elitist types as a reason why a group finder at ALL should be in the game, DESPITE the fact that the community already is all disjointed from the LACK of a good server-wide LFM tool.

 

Really, its ego and self-denial.

[chaosdefined]

You can not care all you want, but the concerns are valid.

The presence of a cross server dungeon finder is the difference between an online multiplayer co op game and an mmorpg.

 

Thankfully, the developers said the incoming FP finder will be server wide only.

 

I find it very disheartening that so many people seem to think than an MMO means not playing with everyone in the game.

[Katahn]

Once again, people are asking for a Group Finder for Flashpoints, so stating it won't help with Heroics is not a valid argument against it.

 

But Flashpoints aren't the be-all and end-all of grouping. While a LFG tool will help for non-instanced content a cross-server Group Finder won't because it can't. For that reason a cross-server tool is actively inferior as an option on those grounds alone.

 

Furthermore we have two games worth of precedent to show that if such a tool is implemented that the adventure zones will empty out which would mean that the very tool that strives to make a small subsection of group content (flashpoints) more readily available will have the effect of making it harder to find level-appropriate groups for heroics.

 

Remember that Blizzard had to nerf all their non-instanced "elite" quests to be non-elite soloable quests because no one was able to get them done.

 

I'm really concerned as to why you're asking this question. I'll try to explain it anyway.

You said that with a XLFG tool people will just sit in the fleet waiting for groups. I said that's what they do anyway. We're saying at least with a Group Finder tool they can queue up and then go off to different planets and do other things. The reason they're having problem getting groups is because there's not enough people of that level range around for getting a Flashpoint, or who are on the Fleet looking for that HM. Get it?

 

Ok, let me try it this way...

 

If there are not enough people to group with anywhere then the solution is not a cross-server tool. The solution is server mergers and server transfers either provided by Bioware or accomplished (via rerolling) by the players. A cross-server tool will not help someone on a low-pop server do anything but Flashpoints and would have the effect (again based on the precedent we've seen in WoW and Rift) of making it harder for everyone (including on servers with healthy populations) do get Heroics done.

 

If there are enough people to group with, but not enough on the Fleet, the solution would be to use a single-server LFG tool (that could work for everything including class quests, heroic quests, and flashpoints) - anything else wouldn't be needed. In the mean time, until it is added to the game, the immediate solution is to stop sitting on the Fleet and spamming LFG... try advertising for a group in the adventure zones.

 

Put another way if you are level 25ish and want to run Mandalorian Raiders and sitting on the Fleet is getting you nowhere... go to Tatooine and try advertising there for a group. You can do it while questing or if you find yourself in a good heroic group suggest travelling up to the Fleet and running the Flashpoint.

 

Once again, you're blaming the tool for people. You're saying everyone else in the game is nasty and will steal your loot.

 

Not worried about loot at all. Specialized "need before greed" code can solve most of those problems here like it did in WoW and Rift. Sure people are going to be jerks about loot without that kind of code though - we saw that in WoW in spades before Blizz fixed it.

 

Your argument about queue for class quests is, I'm sorry, completely unreal. You're now grasping at straws and exaggerating everything to beyond intelligence. Which is more evidence that you really don't have any actual argument.

 

First time my Inquisitor got to the quest at the end of chapter 1 it completely kicked my butt. I ended up trying it a couple times before I beat it. I'm not the only one who's had problems beating a class quest with a BBG (big bad guy) and needed to call in help. I see people asking in general sometimes and other times I've had guildies ask. Point being that if there is a difficult quest that is completely instanced that people will want to be able to use the tool to find help to beat it. If they want the tool to do that they'll not want to have to run it multiple times in case the group they find for it isn't one where they are the "leader"

[chaosdefined]

But Flashpoints aren't the be-all and end-all of grouping. While a LFG tool will help for non-instanced content a cross-server Group Finder won't because it can't. For that reason a cross-server tool is actively inferior as an option on those grounds alone.

 

You'll excuse me as I'm getting a headache from you. Look at the name of this thread. DUNGEON FINDER NEEDED BADLY therefore we are not discussing Heroic quests. Ok? Has that sunk in yet?

 

Furthermore we have two games worth of precedent to show that if such a tool is implemented that the adventure zones will empty out which would mean that the very tool that strives to make a small subsection of group content (flashpoints) more readily available will have the effect of making it harder to find level-appropriate groups for heroics.

Once again...CURRENTLY PEOPLE HAVE TO SIT IN THE ONE PLACE ASKING FOR GROUPS. So the Group Finder tool does not cause this. People aren't out in the "adventure zones" because they have nothing to do there, what do you want them to be doing, swimming in the lakes and playing cricket?!

 

Remember that Blizzard had to nerf all their non-instanced "elite" quests to be non-elite soloable quests because no one was able to get them done.

 

They removed the 'heroic quests'. That has nothing to do with a Group Finder and thus is illogical to this argument. LET IT GO ABOUT THE HEROIC QUESTS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUNGEON FINDER.

 

 

Ok, let me try it this way...

 

If there are not enough people to group with anywhere then the solution is not a cross-server tool. The solution is server mergers and server transfers either provided by Bioware or accomplished (via rerolling) by the players. A cross-server tool will not help someone on a low-pop server do anything but Flashpoints and would have the effect (again based on the precedent we've seen in WoW and Rift) of making it harder for everyone (including on servers with healthy populations) do get Heroics done.

 

If there are enough people to group with, but not enough on the Fleet, the solution would be to use a single-server LFG tool (that could work for everything including class quests, heroic quests, and flashpoints) - anything else wouldn't be needed. In the mean time, until it is added to the game, the immediate solution is to stop sitting on the Fleet and spamming LFG... try advertising for a group in the adventure zones.

 

Put another way if you are level 25ish and want to run Mandalorian Raiders and sitting on the Fleet is getting you nowhere... go to Tatooine and try advertising there for a group. You can do it while questing or if you find yourself in a good heroic group suggest travelling up to the Fleet and running the Flashpoint.

 

 

 

Not worried about loot at all. Specialized "need before greed" code can solve most of those problems here like it did in WoW and Rift. Sure people are going to be jerks about loot without that kind of code though - we saw that in WoW in spades before Blizz fixed it.

 

 

 

First time my Inquisitor got to the quest at the end of chapter 1 it completely kicked my butt. I ended up trying it a couple times before I beat it. I'm not the only one who's had problems beating a class quest with a BBG (big bad guy) and needed to call in help. I see people asking in general sometimes and other times I've had guildies ask. Point being that if there is a difficult quest that is completely instanced that people will want to be able to use the tool to find help to beat it. If they want the tool to do that they'll not want to have to run it multiple times in case the group they find for it isn't one where they are the "leader"

 

 

You know what, I'm done trying to explain things to you. I don't know if you're refusing or just completely incapable of understanding, but it's like trying to teach a brick wall how to be an aeroplane.

Edited April 23, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Ramahospitality]

You know what, I'm done trying to explain things to you. I don't know if you're refusing or just completely incapable of understanding, but it's like trying to teach a brick wall how to be an aeroplane.

 

These are arguments about why not to implement a X-server lfg tool. These are all results that result in a worse overall experience once the tool has been implemented. These are arguments against the tool because they show the negative reactions that occur once the tool is implemented. His comments about the sitting around in cities are also valid. Look at the other games. People stop trying to level in teh zones (in this case worlds) and just sit around waiting for que to pop, and level by doing FPs. Therefor the leveling zone populations drop and players miss out on content and story. Afterall why leave the city where everything you need is? Otherwise you risk your que popping up in the middle of a highly populated hostile area. Therefor his comments on heroic quests are valid because they are direct effects caused by the lfg tools described in above posts.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Ramahospitality

[BucMan]

I'll take a single server version of the dungeon finder thanks. Solves the sitting in fleet issue(because you can queue up while you are leveling on other planets or doing level 50 dailies) while not going down the road that WoW and Rift went down.

 

And an FYI, the single server version of what Rift and WoW did were both poorly done. Rift implemented it at a time that they had similar server pop issues that SWTOR does now. Sure, the busy servers got a benefit, but the ones opened shortly after launch for the queues did not get much help. Had they merged the servers before going cross server, perhaps they would have never had to do it. On Faeblight where I was the initial LFD setup worked fine(Faeblight was the highest pop RP-PVE server). WoW's was completely different and didn't even have the rewards for using the bloody system.(don't think free shinies didn't help get more "butts in seats")

 

 

Alas poor Rift, I knew him well(or at least I thought I did).....

Edited April 23, 2012 by BucMan

[Ramahospitality]

I'll take a single server version of the dungeon finder thanks. Solves the sitting in fleet issue(because you can queue up while you are leveling on other planets or doing level 50 dailies) while not going down the road that WoW and Rift went down.

 

And an FYI, the single server version of what Rift and WoW did were both poorly done. Rift implemented it at a time that they had similar server pop issues that SWTOR does now. Sure, the busy servers got a benefit, but the ones opened shortly after launch for the queues did not get much help. Had they merged the servers before going cross server, perhaps they would have never had to do it. On Faeblight where I was the initial LFD setup worked fine(Faeblight was the highest pop RP-PVE server). WoW's was completely different and didn't even have the rewards for using the bloody system.(don't think free shinies didn't help get more "butts in seats")

 

 

Alas poor Rift, I knew him well(or at least I thought I did).....

 

Yeah, unfortunately, RIFT implemented there tool poorly. The tool was designed well, but wan't implemented properly. The X-server lfg combined with giving raid gear badges for completing heroic instances was what made me leave.

[Demonguard]

Yes I believe a flashpoint finder is needed. I have spent hours looking for groups for flashpoints I've gotten to the point where if I'm not running with my guild I just don't do them anymore. Seeing that my guild is an end game raiding guild and all our mains are 50 when I want to play one of my alts I just don't feel like wasting my time hours on end looking for groups for flashpoints my level when I could be spending that time leveling. PvP queues have it right on the money where you can stay queued and still level your character or do whatever misc things you are wanting too while waiting for it to come up. I do not believe there should be cross server queuing due to the fact that I personally feel that it would ruin the economy of your server. I hated when they added that in WoW and if there was a person in your group that didn't have anyone else on the same server as that player they would just roll need on every boe expensive item that dropped and just leave party right after taking it. Or in this games case I see people rolling need on every piece of gear their companions might need when an actual player in party could use that item. I am not saying to NEVER have cross server queues but I feel bioware should implement same server queuing first and see how it goes. Maybe even create an option to turn on and off cross server queues in preferences some how I am not a programmer so I don't know how hard that would be to implement. I just think it's some good ideas to debate on.

[chaosdefined]

These are arguments about why not to implement a X-server lfg tool. These are all results that result in a worse overall experience once the tool has been implemented. These are arguments against the tool because they show the negative reactions that occur once the tool is implemented. His comments about the sitting around in cities are also valid. Look at the other games. People stop trying to level in teh zones (in this case worlds) and just sit around waiting for que to pop, and level by doing FPs. Therefor the leveling zone populations drop and players miss out on content and story. Afterall why leave the city where everything you need is? Otherwise you risk your que popping up in the middle of a highly populated hostile area. Therefor his comments on heroic quests are valid because they are direct effects caused by the lfg tools described in above posts.

 

That is entirely speculation and nothing more. Where is your evidence that Group Finder caused people to stop levelling? Where is your evidence that players did nothing but sit inside cities instead of doing quests?

 

Until you have solid evidence, and not just "your word" for it, the opinion is nothing more than wild speculation with no merit.

 

The discussion of server population resulting in people being unable to group for Heroic missions is seperate to the discussion for a Group Finder for Flashpoints. For low pop servers I will agree that Server Mergers are needed. However I can say without a doubt that Bioware will refuse to do that for a long time, because they will not want to go down in MMO History as having done a server merge so soon after launch.

Edited April 24, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Katahn]

That is entirely speculation and nothing more. Where is your evidence that Group Finder caused people to stop levelling? Where is your evidence that players did nothing but sit inside cities instead of doing quests?

 

My evidence is WoW and Rift. In both games people stand around in the cities and troll the trade chat while waiting for their group finder to pop. They do this because the ease and convenience of levelling exclusively via doing dungeons far exceeds the alternative. This has twice had the effect of emptying out the adventure zones and making finding a group for non-dungeon content next to impossible. It is one of the prime reasons why Blizzard ending up removing all but a scant few of the elite (group required) quests from their adventure zones.

 

Until you have solid evidence, and not just "your word" for it, the opinion is nothing more than wild speculation with no merit.

 

My evidence is the current state of play in WoW and Rift. I watched it happen twice. I see no reason to expect SWTOR would be any different.

 

The discussion of server population resulting in people being unable to group for Heroic missions is seperate to the discussion for a Group Finder for Flashpoints.

 

If the presence of a XLFG tool directly, and negatively, impacts world populations in SWTOR the same way it did the adventure zones in WoW and Rift then it would make Flashpoints easier to get but make Heroics (which far outnumber Flashpoints in quantity) harder to get. It is the law of unintended consequences - we've seen it happen before and there's no reason to believe this game would be any different.

 

For low pop servers I will agree that Server Mergers are needed. However I can say without a doubt that Bioware will refuse to do that for a long time, because they will not want to go down in MMO History as having done a server merge so soon after launch.

 

On what do you base that assertion? Do you have any evidence to suggest that BW will refuse to do mergers for a long time? How do you define a long time?

 

We already know they have worked out the tech for character transfers to the new APAC (asian pacific) servers - it isn't much of a stretch to assume that once the bugs are ironed out of that process to assume server transfers are possible. If server transfers of individual characters are available, what is stopping server mergers?

Edited April 24, 2012 by Katahn
fixed typos

[chaosdefined]

My evidence is WoW and Rift. In both games people stand around in the cities and troll the trade chat while waiting for their group finder to pop. They do this because the ease and convenience of levelling exclusively via doing dungeons far exceeds the alternative. This has twice had the effect of emptying out the adventure zones and making finding a group for non-dungeon content next to impossible. It is one of the prime reasons why Blizzard ending up removing all but a scant few of the elite (group required) quests from their adventure zones.

I suggest you look up the definition of evidence and then the definition of speculation.

 

 

My evidence is the current state of play in WoW and Rift. I watched it happen twice. I see no reason to expect SWTOR would be any different.

 

 

 

If the presence of a XLFG tool directly, and negatively, impacts world populations in SWTOR the same way it did the adventure zones in WoW and Rift then it would make Flashpoints easier to get but make Heroics (which far outnumber Flashpoints in quantity) harder to get. It is the law of unintended consequences - we've seen it happen before and there's no reason to believe this game would be any different.

 

See above.

 

On what do you base that assertion? Do you have any evidence to suggest that BW will refuse to do mergers for a long time? How do you define a long time?

 

No but I have common sense. Try thinking less of a player and more of a businessman, you might start to understand why companies do what they do.

 

We already know they have worked out the tech for character transfers to the new APAC (asian pacific) servers - it isn't much of a stretch to assume that once the bugs are ironed out of that process to assume server transfers are possible. If server transfers of individual characters are available, what is stopping server mergers?

 

Transferring characters onto a waiting, empty server is not the same as combining two servers together. Especially when it comes to Legacy. But once again, you're missing the point. It's not that it's too difficult to do server merges, it's that you are completely failing to understand business.

 

At least you're distracting me from work, even if it is to wonder how you're failing to understand anything.