Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Esproc]

Originally there were a decent amount, however because there was a huge amount of players joining the games, a lot of servers began experiencing queues to log in. People complained and so Bioware, without any decent foresight, created an abundance of new servers.

Once the initial surge of new players died down and those who didn't enjoy the game left etc, many servers became ghost towns.

Hence the problems arising now.

 

And now you want BW to listen to the some of the player base again and continue with another option ("without any decent foresight") because of complaining. Riiight.

 

They (BW) are trying to figure the best way to handle mergers with the Legacy being an issue.

 

Let BW make the game they had envisioned and stop pandering to people that don't agree on issues of what, where, and when the game should be at any given point.

 

And Blizzard lost 100,000 dropping to 10.3 Million as of 11 SEP 2011. There subscribers continue to fall steadily as well. They count all US, EU, ASIA, and Brazil ($8 sub rate) in their numbers. Many people (over 1 Million) were locked in with the "Annual Pass", MoP BETA Opt in and D3 for a year. These will be coming around again soon. The BBC reported that 1 Million stopped paying in the last 3 months. Another million?

 

Still waiting on real figures to come in showing the amount of subscribed customers for SWTOR and not an estimated guess work. And if you count Fleet, Station, Level, etc. then you did not get a full number. I have checked who general (where I am) on Fleet and seen 2 different numbers, the Fleet and my Who did not match up.

[kilthias]

I hate X-server anything, to be honest.

 

The only way I see fitting to fix this problem is to shut down low population servers, and have those people transfer to higher population ones. (This is just an example, I have no idea what the actual numbers are) Instead of having 50 servers with low population, cut 20 servers down (which would also cut costs, no?) and then have 30 servers with higher population. This would help solve both pve and pvp problems for finding groups.

 

it's too damn difficult to find groups and you can look to lotro to see how often a single-server dungeon finder pops.

 

You can also look into WoW and see how little a pre-85 dungeon pops. Hell, even an 85 dungeon takes around 30 minutes to pop unless you're a healer or a tank. It's laziness that you guys are complaining about. You'd rather sit in a queue for 30 minutes and have it pop, then sit and look for a group for 30 minutes. Not to mention all the terrible groups that are usually put together from X-Server anyway, spend 30 minutes queued for you to fail on the first boss, and have everyone leave. It happens all the time. I really don't think you guys are looking at the big picture here.

 

 

The presence of a cross server dungeon finder is the difference between an online multiplayer co op game and an mmorpg.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS! RPG = Role-Playing Game. I'm not a role player, and will never play on a role-playing server, however, there is still a roleplaying element in just playing the game without full on /emoting everything to be "fully emerged". Cross Server takes away so much server personality. You pick a server, and that's your "world". These are the people you CHOSE to play with when you picked the server. If you don't like them, go to a new server. Do research, go roll a toon, level it to 10 and talk to people around the fleet, find out about the server and figure out if it's the server you want to be on.

 

There is a solution to be found, but X-server PvE and PvP is not the answer. WoW went what? Like 3 expansions (including original) and like 6 years without x-server PvE (I wish they took that long with cross server PvP), why can't SWTOR make it a year without it? You guys just want what you are accustomed to. If you want what WoW or any other MMO has to offer, go play that game instead.

 

In closing, I hope SWTOR never does X-Server anything (except maybe race unlocks, but that won't happen). Stop being lazy, and anti-social by letting a queue do all the work for you. Go meet people, play with them, get gear, have fun. Welcome to Massive Multiplayer Online Gaming. Time to do some socializing (even if it's only virtual).

[chaosdefined]

I still find it amazing you're complaining that playing with people Cross-Server is bad and then go on to tell people to socialise.

 

Contradiction much?

[kilthias]

When something becomes standard, that means it comes with the product launch.

.

 

Standard is just perspective. It's what people are accustomed too, and now that they don't have these easy tools, they'd rather sit and complain instead of putting in the work to get a group. I'm glad this game is not just another cookie cutter MMO.

[kilthias]

I still find it amazing you're complaining that playing with people Cross-Server is bad and then go on to tell people to socialise.

 

Contradiction much?

 

Not a contradiction at all. Cross-Server is not socializing. You play with those people for however long the FP is, then you're likely never going to see them again. There is no "relationship" or "friendship" building in that. You're not expanding your friends list, or the list of people you play with. You find people with a similar interest, go in, get a job done, then they are gone. That's not socializing.

 

EDIT (Since I seem to have not made this clear): Socializing is when you find a group (or groups) of people you enjoy playing with, and play with them. That's why people join guilds, because they enjoy playing with those people. If you're not out and talking to people, and you're just trolling chat or keeping to yourself, yeah, it's going to be way hard to find a group. If all you have to do is click a button, then you're not trying to socialize or find people to play with on a regular basis. You're going in to get what you need to get done. How is grouping with people you'll probably never ever see again (or even remember their names) a better way to socialize then with people you see on your server everyday?

Edited April 18, 2012 by kilthias

[chaosdefined]

Standard is just perspective. It's what people are accustomed too, and now that they don't have these easy tools, they'd rather sit and complain instead of putting in the work to get a group. I'm glad this game is not just another cookie cutter MMO.

 

When looking for a group involves spending a lot of time not actually playing the game, then there are problems. Standard is not perspective, standard is something that the majority of products in a market have. That is the definition of it.

 

You don't want an automated Group Finder tool, well sorry to say they are already working on one, so you'll have to deal with it. Or you know, just not use it since it's entirely optional.

Edited April 18, 2012 by chaosdefined

[chaosdefined]

Not a contradiction at all. Cross-Server is not socializing. You play with those people for however long the FP is, then you're likely never going to see them again. There is no "relationship" or "friendship" building in that. You're not expanding your friends list, or the list of people you play with. You find people with a similar interest, go in, get a job done, then they are gone. That's not socializing.

 

Fun fact, this is a game. I'm willing to bet money that a majority of the players in this game (not on these forums but in the game itself) are paying their monthly fee to play a game, not make friends.

 

You want to make friends, go join a chat room. We want to play a game here.

 

Also, this is meant to be an MMO. That stands for Massively Multiplayer. Limiting who you can play with and segregating server communities works as the opposite of that.

Edited April 18, 2012 by chaosdefined

[kilthias]

I edited my last post to elaborate.

 

Fun fact, this is a game. I'm willing to bet money that a majority of the players in this game (not on these forums but in the game itself) are paying their monthly fee to play a game, not make friends.

 

I'm not saying to go find the person who's going to be best man (Or maid of honor) at your wedding. You're right. It is a game. Aren't games more fun when you play with people you actually like and have gotten to know? If this isn't true, then entire guilds wouldn't change servers with each other and wouldn't go to entirely new MMO's together.

 

I'm only against Cross-Server dungeon finder tools, and Cross Server PvPing. Single server tools are a grand idea to me. That'll connect you to people with similar interests and common goals, thus helping you find people on your OWN server that you can continue to play with (If you enjoyed the experience of playing with them, of course).

 

EDIT: And you're right, they are working on a dungeon finder, but it's a single server finder (which again, I'm completely cool with), and they have no plans to create a X-Server one, and I hope they keep it that way.

Edited April 18, 2012 by kilthias

[chaosdefined]

I edited my last post to elaborate.

 

 

 

I'm not saying to go find the person who's going to be best man (Or maid of honor) at your wedding. You're right. It is a game. Aren't games more fun when you play with people you actually like and have gotten to know? If this isn't true, then entire guilds wouldn't change servers with each other and wouldn't go to entirely new MMO's together.

 

I'm only against Cross-Server dungeon finder tools, and Cross Server PvPing. Single server tools are a grand idea to me. That'll connect you to people with similar interests and common goals, thus helping you find people on your OWN server that you can continue to play with (If you enjoyed the experience of playing with them, of course).

 

EDIT: And you're right, they are working on a dungeon finder, but it's a single server finder (which again, I'm completely cool with), and they have no plans to create a X-Server one, and I hope they keep it that way.

 

They do have plans for Cross Server Dungeon tool, they're just going to try out single server first.

Cross Server PVP is already coming out in the next patch too.

 

I do enjoy a game more when I play with people I like. Hence why I join a guild. But for those who are on low population servers or play at random non-peak times, then getting a group is very difficult. Single-Server won't help them because there's not enough people on their server at that time to group with.

 

Server Merges would be good yes, but Bioware will not do that anytime soon because, as has been said, it is a sign to their investors that they made mistakes and they're losing subscribers. It doesn't have to be massively true but that's the way their investors will see it and so Bioware will not want to do that.

 

Also, I can tell you are someone who does not need to use it. It's funny that everyone against it are ones those who don't need to use it.

Edited April 18, 2012 by chaosdefined

[kilthias]

They do have plans for Cross Server Dungeon tool, they're just going to try out single server first.

Cross Server PVP is already coming out in the next patch too.

 

Also, I can tell you are someone who does not need to use it. It's funny that everyone against it are ones those who don't need to use it.

 

Yes, Cross-Server PvP is coming out in the next patched, which I am pissed about, but there is nothing I can do about that. If you go to the first page of this thread, a mod (or dev, or whatever you want to call them) quoted another mod/dev/etc saying Cross-Server Flashpoints are NOT in the works. If that changed since that was posted, then everything I've said is useless anyway, but oh well. I don't sit in these forums very often. I probably have under 20 posts.

 

And you're wrong. I leveled as healing just so finding a group to do a flash point would be easier, it wasn't. So what did I do? I went and found a guild I enjoy playing with, and then if I need to do a flash point, I ask them, sometimes they do it, sometimes they don't. If they don't I look elsewhere. I'm on Darth Malak. It's pretty low pop, especially for republic. I'm not for or against ideas because they make things easier, I'm for or against them because of how I feel about its impact on the game overall. I'm not saying my opinion is right, it's my opinion. I do believe my opinion is a valid one, with good reasons for backing it up.

[chaosdefined]

So what are your reasons for not allowing players to enjoy Flashpoints with players from other servers?

 

Hopefully not "it destroys communities, other players are mean and nasty!" because that's a really tired argument.

[kilthias]

So what are your reasons for not allowing players to enjoy Flashpoints with players from other servers?

 

Hopefully not "it destroys communities, other players are mean and nasty!" because that's a really tired argument.

 

I never said they were mean or nasty, lol. You're taking a sentence from an entire argument and twisting it to how you see fit. It has nothing to do with the people, it has to do with them not being on your server. It takes away server competitiveness. Games are meant to be competitive, whether it's against actual people or the CPU. If people weren't competitive by nature then most of today's video games wouldn't exist. Cross Server PvE causes there to be no reason for people to strive to be better PvE'ers and get into a good PvE guild. They won't need to learn to play their class better. They won't have to compete for raid spots. There is no reason to strive to be better. They can just queue for it. They don't need to interact with people on their own server, they can group with anyone. How does that not seem damaging? That will do more damage to individual servers than good. And yes, then you take into the account the people you end up playing with. Most of these flashpoint groups will be unsuccessful, leading players to become more frustrated. Population is the issue, and cross server anything is merely a "quick fix" to save face. SWTOR may look bad to investors if they shut some servers down, but they are going to look even worse when this fixes nothing and then have absolutely no choice but to take down the servers. They'd rather keep things going for a bit longer, than take a loss and have it pick up in the future. Take Blizzard for example, yes, they are smart business men and have had the leading MMO for many years. They recently (within the past, what? 2-3 years?) added this tool, and they have to give D3 out for FREE to try and keep subscribers. I'm not saying "oh, cross server pve is what killed wow" what I'm saying is, it didn't do anything to make people stay. Just as I'm sure it won't do that here.

 

And quite frankly, I think I'm done responding. I have no problem debating with someone who will actually take into account the other sides opinion, but for someone to completely write the other side off as QQing and only selectively read what they feel they can dispute, there's just no point.

[chaosdefined]

Good, because I honestly disagree with everything you have said, and you seem to want to discuss your opinion with someone you can change the mind of, rather than someone who doesn't agree with you. Edited April 18, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Butcheress]

Good, because I honestly disagree with everything you have said, and you seem to want to discuss your opinion with someone you can change the mind of, rather than someone who doesn't agree with you.

apparently he knows little about the situation of WOW. The fraction of people left in my WOW guild who are still playing are all saying good things about LFR tool. Because that's their ONLY way to go to dragon soul. People have different schedules and so and it is extremely hard for them to form group regularly.

I can't say this is the only reason they shelled out 1 year subscription money (the decision which i will never understand), but if they are using the tool regularly, i would say it helps.

[chaosdefined]

apparently he knows little about the situation of WOW. The fraction of people left in my WOW guild who are still playing are all saying good things about LFR tool. Because that's their ONLY way to go to dragon soul. People have different schedules and so and it is extremely hard for them to form group regularly.

I can't say this is the only reason they shelled out 1 year subscription money (the decision which i will never understand), but if they are using the tool regularly, i would say it helps.

 

Exactly. My guild pretty much entirely quit due to boredom of the content, and I wanted to see the Dragon Soul raid before quitting. However getting into a pug was a nightmare because I'd never run it before. Thankfully the LFR allowed me to see the content for which I am happy. And I had no problems running it with people.

[Quales]

I believe it should be limited to one server with the exception of maybe binding two server together for the purpose of heroics and flash points. I say this only for community building purposes. Two servers linked together would not be a terribly bad idea, but let us let the people vote. How does a sound argh! sorry!

[tkinnunzero]

I believe it should be limited to one server with the exception of maybe binding two server together for the purpose of heroics and flash points. I say this only for community building purposes. Two servers linked together would not be a terribly bad idea, but let us let the people vote. How does a sound argh! sorry!

 

I don't know, I'd like to be able to group with anyone in the SWTOR community, rather than just some random small slice of it. I don't see why Bioware would intentionally balkanize their community if there's any way to avoid it.

[Skidrowbro]

It appears that the new generation of MMO gamers don't know what the meaning of MMO is. This is not your x-box or ps3 where you can hit quick join button. MMO's are a world created for players to traverse on and adventure. Learn to get to know one another, make friends, which apprently is hard for some of you. Instancing is going to be the death of the MMO genre.

[kilthias]

It appears that the new generation of MMO gamers don't know what the meaning of MMO is. This is not your x-box or ps3 where you can hit quick join button. MMO's are a world created for players to traverse on and adventure. Learn to get to know one another, make friends, which apprently is hard for some of you. Instancing is going to be the death of the MMO genre.

 

Thank you^

[kilthias]

Exactly. My guild pretty much entirely quit due to boredom of the content, and I wanted to see the Dragon Soul raid before quitting. However getting into a pug was a nightmare because I'd never run it before. Thankfully the LFR allowed me to see the content for which I am happy. And I had no problems running it with people.

 

apparently he knows little about the situation of WOW. The fraction of people left in my WOW guild who are still playing are all saying good things about LFR tool. Because that's their ONLY way to go to dragon soul. People have different schedules and so and it is extremely hard for them to form group regularly.

I can't say this is the only reason they shelled out 1 year subscription money (the decision which i will never understand), but if they are using the tool regularly, i would say it helps.

 

In that situation, you're both right. It most likely is helping, now that your guilds are dead. If BW needs to implement a tool that helps "a dead game" (There's still a lot of players, but let's face it WoW's on a very sharp decline) 6th months into their new game, theres a problem.

[chaosdefined]

It appears that the new generation of MMO gamers don't know what the meaning of MMO is. This is not your x-box or ps3 where you can hit quick join button. MMO's are a world created for players to traverse on and adventure. Learn to get to know one another, make friends, which apprently is hard for some of you. Instancing is going to be the death of the MMO genre.

 

I'm wondering if you know the irony in your statement? You complain people don't know what the meaning of MMO is then go on to say we shouldn't be able to play with everyone in the game. Huh?

[Bluerodian]

I believe it should be limited to one server with the exception of maybe binding two server together for the purpose of heroics and flash points. I say this only for community building purposes. Two servers linked together would not be a terribly bad idea, but let us let the people vote. How does a sound argh! sorry!

 

In order to nurture growth, you have to have a community to start with. So far, I've yet to see one nor any real reason to bother building one.

[Trineda]

Hello everyone,

 

As an update to this thread, we thought you might be interested in James Ohlen's Feedback request regarding a Group Finder. We encourage you to visit and leave your feedback!

 

Feedback request from James Ohlen - Group Finder

 

Have a great day!

[Ramahospitality]

As with the above posts and what they bring I have only this to say. A single server lfg is welcome since it works basically like a chat and ignores can be done to compliment my disliking of those who abuse the system. However I am completely against cross server for reasons already stated. It ruins the community and thus the game. It is a MMO, meaning that you play with other people, and those same people play with you and that's who you will always play with as long as you remain on that server. Therefore knowing the community and being apart of it is a very important aspect of MMO's and I believe that cross server will take away that aspect.

 

For low population servers it is also my personal belief that server transfers or mergers are the best solution in the long run. Done correctly, servers will not over populate and the LFG tool will be more effective. So it is for this reason that I say cross server lfgs are not needed.

 

Communities are the essence of MMOs. Why else play a MMO if not to paly a game with other people that share a common interest. MMOs are a great way to meet new friends and create relationships all over the world. Through gaming and RL I have relations in Canada and all over the United States. Without a good gaming community I would never have these connections. Therefore, any actions done that risk disabling or destroying the community of a MMORPG should be considered a direct contradiction to what its all about.

 

I hope Bioware continues to make a quality game that everyone will enjoy playing and that allows the community to grow more and more. I look forward to what the future brings and anticipate a long relationship with SWTOR.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Ramahospitality

[pyropete]

I would like a dungeon finder too.. I could do whatever I wanted while waiting rather than sit in the fleet for 2-3 hours with or without getting a group because I am DPS..

 

 

I haven't even seen ONE heroic mode because I cannot find a group once I hit 50. I love to do instances but am handcuffed because I am DPS.