If you can't beat a Pyrotech PT/VG, here's some quick tips

[jitsuo]

Note: I will be using Bounty Hunter terminology because I am not as familiar with Vanguards

 

 

1. Obsfucate is your friend

 

Railshot does WEAPON DAMAGE, and Obsfucate absolutely destroys its effectiveness. A missed Rail Shot is a LOT of missed damage from a PT, and he's already squishy to begin with. Missing 1-2 Rail Shots jumps you far ahead in the DPS race.

 

2. Saber Ward is the CD to use.

 

See above. If you're having trouble, pop Saber Ward. Don't pop it when you're <25% health or it will lose its full effectiveness. If your health is going down too fast for your comfort against them, pop it. It can screw up some Rail Shots.

 

Usually I use it when I'm either at 50% and the PT is >=50% (If you don't get an Obsfucate off first, assuming the PT is Thermal Detonator specced, their opening combo can eat through a TON of health.) If he gets both Thermal and Rail Shot to crit, you will definitely want to Obsfucate--->Saber Ward when Obsfucate wears off.

 

3. Crippling Slash is a must against good PT/VGs

 

Any PT worth his salt will know that a Marauder will win a head on DPS race (barring lucky procs). PT's have a 30% snare attached to their Flame Burst Proc and will attempt to kite you using this. They have access to many ranged attacks and, if a Marauder cannot Charge, he will be helpless to hit the PT (Remember, a PT needs to be fairly close to use the CD resetting abilities Rocket Punch and Flame Burst, but their two hard hitters, Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot, and their dot, Incendiary Missle, can be used 30m away.) Apply Crippling Slash to ensure 100% uptime on your target. If he does not try to run away, just save your Charge and don't re-apply Crippling. If he does what he SHOULD do and pillar hump/kite you, keep re-applying Crippling Slash

 

4. Draw out the fight. Longer fights mean a better chance to win for the Marauder

 

This point is imperative. You have to realize that a Marauders defensive CD's are 100x better than a PT's. A PT has a LOT of frontload burst, which is hard to deal with because Marauders are a backload burst class (we do more damage as the fight goes on instead of having huge burst at the beginning), but the longer the fight drags on, the more screwed he is. While a PT is stuck managing heat and relying on RNG, a good Marauder can bring the hurt 100% of the time and can mitigate more of the PT's damage through Camo, CoP, Saber Ward, Obsfucate, Bleed heals (these are a HUGE difference maker) and Undying Rage.

 

Now, the PT does have defensive CD's, but they are limited compared to the Marauders. They have a 12s Shield that gives them 25% damage reduction and a 10s HoT that recovers 15% health. An Anni Berserk (with bleeds on a targer) recovers more health faster than their CD and it can be used MUCH more frequently. Between Cloak of Pain and Saber Ward, Marauders make that bubble look like nothing.

 

All in all, we can inflict more damage on Powertechs than they can inflict on us (thank you Obsfucate and bleeds) and mitigate more damage than they can (thank you Obsfucate, Saber Ward, bleed heals, Undying Rage, Cloak of Pain).

 

I hear about a lot of Marauders having trouble beating good PT's or VG's, but we are almost made to be their counter class. Follow these tips and they should help against them.

 

If anyone has tips to contribute or has criticisms, feel free to speak up. If your point is valid, I will gladly admit when I'm wrong.

Edited March 27, 2012 by jitsuo

[iResist]

This might work against a Pyrotech specced powertech bounty hunter, but I'm not so sure this will work for a shield tech specced powertech bounty hunter.

 

I have a tank BH and theres no melee class that can take him out 1v1 because he has so much damage mitigation while still having decent DPS. Only way he gets taken out is from range, which the marauder can't do.

[SunsNRses]

This might work against a Pyrotech specced powertech bounty hunter, but I'm not so sure this will work for a shield tech specced powertech bounty hunter.

 

I have a tank BH and theres no melee class that can take him out 1v1 because he has so much damage mitigation while still having decent DPS. Only way he gets taken out is from range, which the marauder can't do.

 

The point of this thread is to provide tips against pyrotechs, not shieldtechs.

 

Damage mitigation of shieldtechs means nothing against annihlation marauders because all the DoT damage is internal and force-based. So at best you have 19% mitigation for the DoTs (44% if you pop a cooldown) and 0% chance to shield/absorb the damage. Carnage can shred shieldtechs as well because of Gore.

 

Honestly I have an easier time fighting marauders when I'm specced into full pyro rather than shieldtech/ironfist. Their damage is just too high and too fast to mitigate so a dps race is the best way to go. But that's just my experience.

[Kikka]

I'm PT specced Pyro (or rather Rail Shot specced 8/6/27), and indeed the only DPS class that causes problems to me on a 1v1 is marauder.

 

Just to give some insight on rocket punch : it is TECH attack and KINETIC damage, so obfuscate does not work vs rocket punch.

 

Similarly, saber ward will give the 20% damage reduction to rocket punch, but not the 50% extra avoidance.

 

In any case, its a win situation since the hardest hitter is rail shot. Moreover in patch 1.2 given the rail shot nerf (6 sec CD, therefore less DPS and less heat reduction), any marauder will probably be able to steamroll a PT without breaking a sweat.

[atreyuz]

This might work against a Pyrotech specced powertech bounty hunter, but I'm not so sure this will work for a shield tech specced powertech bounty hunter.

 

I have a tank BH and theres no melee class that can take him out 1v1 because he has so much damage mitigation while still having decent DPS. Only way he gets taken out is from range, which the marauder can't do.

 

a pt tanky specced do have lots of mitigation and decent dmg, but that dmg is not enough to kill a marauder trough his Defensive-CDS+Self-Healing before the AnniMara do.

Edited March 25, 2012 by atreyuz

[jitsuo]

I'm PT specced Pyro (or rather Rail Shot specced 8/6/27), and indeed the only DPS class that causes problems to me on a 1v1 is marauder.

 

Just to give some insight on rocket punch : it is TECH attack and KINETIC damage, so obfuscate does not work vs rocket punch.

 

Similarly, saber ward will give the 20% damage reduction to rocket punch, but not the 50% extra avoidance.

 

In any case, its a win situation since the hardest hitter is rail shot. Moreover in patch 1.2 given the rail shot nerf (6 sec CD, therefore less DPS and less heat reduction), any marauder will probably be able to steamroll a PT without breaking a sweat.

 

Thank you for clarifying about rocket punch, I was unsure as to the damage. Either way, both top specs for PT (with 31 in Pyro and with 27 in Pyro) use RS as their main damage

[RoeKG]

As someone who plays a Pyrotech you're pretty much spot on. I find most marauders don't ever try to snare me which is usually the difference maker. After that it's cat and mouse to not get charged while I whittle them down. It's disappointing because I fear Marauders but I don't think many are played very well.

[EasymodeX]

BTW that reminds me, Easy Mode you seem to be the guy who knows tons about game mechanics. How does the Cleansing work? Is it just a random two? or the first 2 applied, or last two applied?

 

I don't know for sure, but many seem to imply it is random.

 

Worth testing ... someday.

[Terrorshard]

This is a close fight usually. My general strategy is to go toe to toe with the marauder and kite as much free damage as possible. When I get them down to about 20% I assault plastique/cryogrenade for the 4 second stun, ion pulse then finish with a HIB as the AP goes off. Generally I try to burst them down before Undying Rage is popped.

 

These were always good fights and I will miss them after 1.2. After the nerf I don't think you will have much problems with pyros so your strategy won't be very important.

[EasymodeX]

Generally speaking the fight should not be close. Obfuscate basically ***** on Pyrotechs for the first 6 seconds of a fight so hard it should be nearly impossible for them to recover.

[jitsuo]

Like I said, I made this post because I see Marauders posting about how PT's/VG's beat them 1v1 and that should NEVER EVER happen unless the PT outgears you, you don't use the right abilities, or you suck.

[jitsuo]

Fixed a few grammatical errors and expanded it.

[jitsuo]

bump.

[iknoghostmagic]

I don't see how its possible to lose to a PT/VG as annihilation with cds up the only thing that really ever gives me a hard time is tank spec assassin/shadows in tanking gear...

[jitsuo]

I don't see how its possible to lose to a PT/VG as annihilation with cds up the only thing that really ever gives me a hard time is tank spec assassin/shadows in tanking gear...

 

I thought so too....until I saw all these posts about how PTs/VGs are some Marauders hardest enemies. I have a PT myself and I know that there are a lot of miserable Marauders who I can crush, but I shouldn't be able to. What I've noticed is that the Marauders that beat me utilize most of these tips, and I always take my own advice when I fight a PT.