Constructive Warrior / Jedi - Guardian / Immortal Post

[Fiddyy]

Immortal -

Battle Cry is now a 2-point skill that provides the same overall effect.

Crushing Blow now generates 50% additional threat.

Force Grip is now located in Tier 4 of the skill tree.

Force Scream no longer consumes stacks of Revenge while the Battle Cry buff is active.

Heavy Handed is now a 1-point skill with a slightly reduced overall effect.

Quake is now a 3-point skill that provides the same overall effect.

Shield Specialization is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree.

Sonic Barrier is now located in Tier 4 of the skill tree.

Thrown Gauntlet no longer reduces the cooldown of Threatening Scream and is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree.

 

This is not the way to fix the tanking class in my opinion. It's a very easy way to get out of the situation, however something else needs to be done. (Not digging on the dev's just giving my input on the class.) Something needs to change so that being Immortal spec'd instead of hybrid is 100% necessary to tank. Here are some of my ideas.

 

First off Invincible needs to be WAY higher up in the tree. It makes no sense that a hybrid spec tank can access this.

Second the "tank" talents in the dps tree need to be made accessible by Immortals / Guardians

Third, threat. We needed a pure tank spec threat buff yes, however the crushing blow change is lazy and way to easy. Here are some constructive ideas.

 

1. Remove the rage cost on Retaliation, and make it usable every 3 seconds, with a high tiered talent that made it usable without dodging / deflecting. (Replace backhand?)

2. Put a bleed on crushing blow on a target with a 5 sunder stack, keeping the original damage buff as well, and reduce the cooldown on it to 9 or 12 seconds. (the CD needs to be reduced either way.)

3. Put a 3-5% damage increase on a target per stack of sunder armor, and reduce the cd Soresu form can generate threat to 1 second.

 

Keep in mind I'm tired, and this wasn't very well typed or spelled, but something needs to change to our class, and the simple 50% threat increase on crushing blow isn't it. It's not going to make immortals / guardians any more viable, and people are still going to use the hybrid spec. It's as simple as that. I would like to tank with something that can put out a little more damage and still have a challenge when it comes to threat, without cheating using an actual dps build. Just my opinion. Thoughts?

[Jeboleth]

I agree with your first three points, but I don't agree with your list of changes. They would be complex to implement but more importantly they don't solve our main problem which is aoe threat. Your changes would only increase our single target threat which I feel we do fine on.

 

As I stated in another thread, remove the 50% additional threat of Crushing Blow and instead add a line to the talent that says "This talent provides a large threat bonus to Smash when in Soresu Form." This would then give us the same threat bonus that assassins get with their 31 point talent (Wither) without having to give us the same power.

 

Thoughts?

[Fiddyy]

Aoe threat is more or less useless. Both our aoe abilities are limited by a set number of mobs (5), and to be completely honest, there is no aoe pack in the game that is letal to non tanks, unless you're like tanking the one normal, and letting the elites / champions run around.

[Elyx]

Although the 50% increase is pretty simplistic. it's not like buffing our threat stance is any less simplistic. Adding a few buffs to the talent tree would be easy to do.

 

add a bonus ToT or direct threat buff to Revenge.

 

Add a threat component to Heavy Handed

 

change Guard stance to add an additional 2/4/6% damage buff in addition to the defensive buff WHILE in soresu. Immortals could use some DPS love, and the Soresu limitation would keep dps specs from really taking advantage with it.

 

I like your ideas about moving the defensive skills lower in the vengance tree. particularly Deadening Defense and Unstoppable. only downside with that is they also become available for rage tree as well. Don't know if that would be bad or good. Plus we would have to either move some DPS talents up the vengance tree or the PvP talents at the lower tiers. Either way, the DPS crowd (me included) wouldn't want to lose our early DPS advantage.

 

Not sure ultimately about the necessity for increased AoE threat, but we are noticeably lower then the other classes. even if it's not "necessary", it still should be moderately balanced so the option is there if you want it. a ToT on smash would fit the bill. or make it a separate talent so people can choose the extra AoE threat if they want it:

 

"Circle of Rage" - Smash and Sweeping slash now have a ToT component added to them. Stackable buff, stacks up to 3x for a duration of 18 seconds per stack."

 

...or whatever. we don't really have to get amazingly creative here...the class as it is plays very well, there's not need to add fancy new stuff when we can just buff the skills that are already there.

[Foenixz]

Not sure I agree with all of this. I don;t have issues with AoE tanking My goal is only to hold onto mobs long enough for the group to get their initial AoEs down.

 

The additional threat generated while in Soresu form is NOT adequate. The two additional mechanic we have to generate threat Guard and dps is not adequate in raids either. A skill say ion level 5 of teh immortal tree that adds additional threat on the level of 3/6/9% might do it or here's a novel idea make us on par with PowerTech and Assassins for DPS.

 

The design of the Juggernaut tank is that of the prototypical meat shield warrior and while we have the cool downs we do not have the threat generation OR the option to add DPS to gain more through DPS without becoming a hybrid. I used a 23/7/11 spec and found is better for damage and I HAD enough mitigation I was just not as happy as I would be with the proper design to begin with.

 

I do not consider us broken I have since recruited another tank (a PowerTech) and I have since gone DPS as Vengeance does nice damage over time. At least he does;t lose aggro to either a Merc or a Marauder like I did.

 

PS Sunders should have an additional threat generation in them like that other game. My group asked a long while ago ... doesn't the sunder generate additional threat?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Foenixz

[Vodrin]

My feeling is that a talent that makes sunder generate additional threat in tank stance would make the most sense. A modest DPS increase would be ok, but something like the OP talked about with revenge would imbalance pure tank burst in PvP and would only lead to a crippling nerf down the road.