LizardSF Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I worked in the game industry and I know about deadlines. Then you know you ship when you have to ship and hope you can patch quickly, or. you don't ship at all and you watch everything you've worked on for months, possibly years, while you slept under your desk and ate entirely from the vending machine in the lobby, be deleted as you pack up your action-figures into a cardboard box and go home and log in to monster.com. If you claim otherwise, you're lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidkjames Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Now you're just being silly. Blizzard gave away WoW game time because servers were offline at release for DAYS at a time (it was 2 weeks before Mal'ganis was even close to stable.) Characters were routinely rolled back during the first month. Oh, an I love how your disdain for your fellow man would have BW devs sequestered for 5 years to make the perfect game. Burning Legion was offline for 9 days straight. We couldn't play and didn't get a single day refunded to us. Hardware upgrades didn't count as downtime in their eyes. And he also said there was nothing like WoW. Lol WoW was NOT the first MMO and is only the most popular b/c it came out at a time MMO's were becoming more main stream, which unfortunately brought in a bunch of people to this genre that absolutely do not belong in it. The negative threads in this game are so repetative and uncalled for in most cases that I just ignore these people just like Bioware does. If all these haters actually do cancel as they've been claiming since December then these forums would serve a purpose but unfortunately most of them will continue to sub and just run their mouths without even reading whats coming, then proceed to write a 9 paragraph rant about an issue that is being fixed in the next few weeks. You can't fix stupid, it's forever as we have been warned for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valens_Andorius Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Hold on while I transmute some lead to gold and ride a unicorn to the store to get some mithril plated underwear.... Everyone wanted a launch, so we got one. Yeah there are bugs and it wasn't truly ready, but stop asking for the IMPOSSIBLE. Rushed products are crap: I.E. Spider man 3 Pirates 2,3,4 Age of Conan etc... Patience young padawan. Edited March 16, 2012 by Valens_Andorius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I sure wouldn't push out a unfinished product You clearly don't work in the software market then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvorno Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I read the OP's name and I thought to myself oh man this is gonna be the best post ever. I came into this post with high expectations, instead it's like buying a car with no windshield and when i turn the steering wheel right it goes left. That's essentially what is going on here! Bad Analogies involving cars and restaurants really need to stop. They are littered around these forums and are so annoying. I can't be the only one to notice this? I mean I agree with a certain polish to the game missing but please for all future posters please stop comparing buying a video game to buying a car. They are completely different scenarios and relate in no way to each other. In fact end all analogies because most people make the worst comparisons. Pretty please, I'm asking nicely!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Whenever someone comes down with the “you got what was advertised” or the “That’s not on the box” lines it reminds me of Heroes of Might and Magic IV? When 3DO released the game they released it with no multiplayer feature. Fans of the series, such as myself, took to the forums crying foul. The 3DO defenders, both players and employees, replied that the game hadn’t been advertised as having multiplayer, and it didn’t claim to be multiplayer on the back of the box. Therefore our complaint was invalid. Our response was that up until this point the franchise has been multiplayer that 3DO put the product out there knowing that its entire fan base would go in assuming it was multiplayer. The arguments raged on for a while until well past there was nothing constructive left to say. About a year later, 3DO filed for Chapter 11 protection. So yeah, maybe 3DO was in the technical and legal right by letting us all think the game would be multiplayer and then yanking the carpet out from under our feat. But shortly thereafter they stopped existing. Not that BW or EA are in danger of disappearing because of this game, but it’s something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRavnos Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Then you know you ship when you have to ship and hope you can patch quickly, or. you don't ship at all and you watch everything you've worked on for months, possibly years, while you slept under your desk and ate entirely from the vending machine in the lobby, be deleted as you pack up your action-figures into a cardboard box and go home and log in to monster.com. If you claim otherwise, you're lying. I agree partially to this. A lot of it depends on the flavor of your project's stakeholders. Typically there is the list of features required to make the project a success and then the list of "if we have time we'll do this items". And often those lists change mid-development. And normally shipping the product is a tricky business too. A lot of times there is an incentive for shipping early (bonus check) and a penalty for shipping late (10% payment deduction for every 2 weeks behind). Granted the variables always tend to change. I worked on a project once where I was told something had to be done no matter what by X date. I programmed it completely to spec and was able to fit all the required features in. Then the client turned around and decided they didn't need the software. We only found out like a few days before the project closure meeting. Personally I didn't care cause I got paid anyway, but it was still a strange situation. We don't know what happens behind closed doors because to my knowledge no one on this thread is part of the BioWare development team. We don't have ESP. So they could have said... "For this project to be successful we simply have to allow the customer the ability to log in to the product. All these other features <holds up list of standard MMO features> are extra and if we have time." I said this somewhere else but, the thing BioWare has to watch out for is the better pastures. The MMO market is very saturated and is only going to get worse with the other releases this year. If BioWare says... "We have steak!" ...and the next guy says... "Oh yeah, we have steak and mashed potatoes!" ...and the next guy says... "Oh really? We have steak, potatoes, and beer!" You see the pattern. If the first guy with Steak doesn't get on the ball, they won't be doing too well as time passes. Now, if they have the best steak you ever had... maybe the other stuff doesn't matter so much (like the name Star Wars on the product). That is purely a matter of the customer's opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavar Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 This is new and exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakugo Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 totally agree been saying this forever. most thing they plan to release with 1.2 should have been ingame already period...... guildbanks, rated warzone, how about for the fact that you still cant choose which warzone you wanna que for i mean c'mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kraxis- Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Huge companies (EA, LA) mandating "Deadlines" epitomizes what's wrong with the software industry. This has been a problem ever since software (and the Internet) became an uber market back in the mid to late 90's. The bean counters don't understand the underlying complexities of general technology, let alone CODE - and they never will. This "release it now and patch it later" bull**** needs to STOP. Just look at how that practice has leaked into console releases... remember when console games were relatively bug free and didn't require patches? If there wasn't so much pressure put on developers to meet unreasonable deadlines, then we wouldn't have as many MMO's with f'd up launches and piss-poor quality/gameplay mechanics. Strict deadlines are *********** stupid, especially for something like an MMO. Technology is organic and is often hampered by deadlines; Case in point: SWTOR. Fact of the matter is, SWTOR was released 6-12 months too early and it was because of EA/LA, "shareholders interests" and deadlines mandated by the bean counters and LUDDITE UPPER MANAGEMENT. Then we have companies like EA who force their employees to work massive overtime hours, which contrary to their (idiotic) beliefs, is NOT more productive than a 40-50 hours week and causes more problems than it solves. You can Google any number of studies done on this and see for yourself. The communication and marketing was also very POOR and led to the faction imbalances and FAILED to properly set expectations of the fans about the state of the game. /getoffmylawn Edited March 16, 2012 by Sireene lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigota Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) 1.2 should have been 0.02a. Edited March 16, 2012 by Rigota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I agree partially to this. A lot of it depends on the flavor of your project's stakeholders. Typically there is the list of features required to make the project a success and then the list of "if we have time we'll do this items". And often those lists change mid-development. And normally shipping the product is a tricky business too. A lot of times there is an incentive for shipping early (bonus check) and a penalty for shipping late (10% payment deduction for every 2 weeks behind). Granted the variables always tend to change. I worked on a project once where I was told something had to be done no matter what by X date. I programmed it completely to spec and was able to fit all the required features in. Then the client turned around and decided they didn't need the software. We only found out like a few days before the project closure meeting. Personally I didn't care cause I got paid anyway, but it was still a strange situation. We don't know what happens behind closed doors because to my knowledge no one on this thread is part of the BioWare development team. We don't have ESP. So they could have said... "For this project to be successful we simply have to allow the customer the ability to log in to the product. All these other features <holds up list of standard MMO features> are extra and if we have time." I said this somewhere else but, the thing BioWare has to watch out for is the better pastures. The MMO market is very saturated and is only going to get worse with the other releases this year. If BioWare says... "We have steak!" ...and the next guy says... "Oh yeah, we have steak and mashed potatoes!" ...and the next guy says... "Oh really? We have steak, potatoes, and beer!" You see the pattern. If the first guy with Steak doesn't get on the ball, they won't be doing too well as time passes. Now, if they have the best steak you ever had... maybe the other stuff doesn't matter so much (like the name Star Wars on the product). That is purely a matter of the customer's opinion though. This is what I've been saying this whole time. I think BW is sitting with a nice dish of steak and potatos but unless they get on the ball and get some beer flowing they're in for a rough year. Apt analogy, hats off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Sorry but I don't like the way BW has been selling us on this big patch like it's a content upgrade when it really should have been in the launch of the game. Most of the features / fixes should have been implemented from the get go. True of every MMO every released really. You only have to visit their forums to see this. The list of complaints are different for different MMOs, but the theme is the same. People always complaining about why something was not in game earlier. If you don't know this and adjust your expectations accordingly, then you get frustrated or upset. This is exactly why some people should not subscribe to an MMO at launch, and most especially not 3, 6, 12, lifetime subscriptions. If they do it anyway, it's on them not the game provider as far as I am concerned. Edited March 16, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 totally agree been saying this forever. most thing they plan to release with 1.2 should have been ingame already period...... guildbanks, rated warzone, how about for the fact that you still cant choose which warzone you wanna que for i mean c'mon LOLz..... the very same things that most every MMO ever released DID NOT have in their release launch AND patched in later. Interestingly enough, Bioware is patching these in earlier after launch then most every other MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 When the OP finishes his own MMO he can make those decisions for his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormeanted Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Umm, they did say that. They even let people see the whole game for a month before the release, so not a single person here can say they didn't know what they were buying, and beyond that, even if they somehow lived under a rock up until release day, they had 30 days to play and decide whether the game was worth the sub or not. EVERY single person posting on this forum decided AFTER their initial playtime that the game was worth playing. That's a naive statement. There was not enough time to see the END GAME in beta, and to know that it was bad. Most of us bought it becasue the leveling was superb in the beta, and in the game. But there is no end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaader Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) If I bought a car and when I got it home found out the brakes didn't work, the fuel line was not connecting the engine to the tank and the seats were missing I'd be a little PO'ed if all they offered me was a new hood ornament. That's essentially what they've done. If you bought that car it would never have started. You would have never made it home. You fail sir! Good day! Edited March 16, 2012 by Slaader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We don't know what happens behind closed doors because to my knowledge no one on this thread is part of the BioWare development team. We don't have ESP. So they could have said... Man, we should have gotten ESP at launch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 LOLz..... the very same things that most every MMO ever released DID NOT have in their release launch AND patched in later. Interestingly enough, Bioware is patching these in earlier after launch then most every other MMO. And if SWTOR was competing with those games in their launch state that would matter. But it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 That's a naive statement. There was not enough time to see the END GAME in beta, and to know that it was bad. Most of us bought it becasue the leveling was superb in the beta, and in the game. But there is no end game. Sure there is, maybe you should have done a month to month if you weren't sure you'd like the end game there was and then we could have been done with you 2 months ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I suspect that some of the devs would agree with the sentiment that 1.2 should have been 1.0. However, the EA execs decided that they wanted the game released for the holiday season, and thatI resulted in months of bitter feature-chopping and crying developers (seriously, they said so in an interview). It also resulted in a testing phase that was brutally truncated, thus the buggy ops. Of Bioware had its way, the game would NOT have been released when it was. HOWEVER: EA screwed things up for them and for us, and now we and they have to make the most of it. I have to say that they certainly have... the whining playerbase I'm not so sure about. TL; DR - The game was released before they wanted to. Go punch an EA exec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I suspect that some of the devs would agree with the sentiment that 1.2 should have been 1.0. However, the EA execs decided that they wanted the game released for the holiday season, and thatI resulted in months of bitter feature-chopping and crying developers (seriously, they said so in an interview). It also resulted in a testing phase that was brutally truncated, thus the buggy ops. Of Bioware had its way, the game would NOT have been released when it was. HOWEVER: EA screwed things up for them and for us, and now we and they have to make the most of it. I have to say that they certainly have... the whining playerbase I'm not so sure about. TL; DR - The game was released before they wanted to. Go punch an EA exec. This was the reason I cringed when I saw the EA logo on the game for the first time. They have a long history of pulling this crap and sinking their own game. Not to say this game is sunk, but it sure seems like EA is trying pretty hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobinator Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Bioware? Releasing a fully complete game? OP stop smoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 And if SWTOR was competing with those games in their launch state that would matter. But it isn't. WoW isn't worth playing in its current state, swtor is. What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 WoW isn't worth playing in its current state, swtor is. What's the problem? The problem is that there are millions who disagree with you. Not saying I'm one of them, but it is the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts