BH nerf confirmed

[Yazule]

May be a buff in disguise...

 

Not having to rely on Tracer Missle for everything opens up more possibilities.......

 

oh i am with ya, and if they do not affect overall dps for raids i am happy as punch, give me more mobility with the rocket class and I will be one happy camper.

 

best part is if it is a buff we can tell everyone that we got nerfed and it is their turn

 

muah ha ha ha ha

[GeorgZoeller]

By Georg Zoeller. Can be seen here:

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19979-guild-summit-interview-with-georg-zoeller/page-2

 

And he didn't so much as say it, but he virtually confirmed my suspicion that they are using aggregate damage/wz statistics to guide their nerf/class rebalance efforts. While understandable, this is IMO highly flawed and will be exposed as such once ranked WZs come into play.

Uh no. I did not state in that interview that we use aggregate damage/wz statistics to guide our class balance efforts.

 

Damage statistics in Warzones would be a rather crude tool to build class balance on.

[XOrionX]

By Georg Zoeller. Can be seen here:

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19979-guild-summit-interview-with-georg-zoeller/page-2

 

And he didn't so much as say it, but he virtually confirmed my suspicion that they are using aggregate damage/wz statistics to guide their nerf/class rebalance efforts. While understandable, this is IMO highly flawed and will be exposed as such once ranked WZs come into play.

 

Again, not really a nerf when they say they are going to make the rotation more diffcult. He never says anything in the article about Arsenal Merc damage.

 

In my opinion, this is a buff in that it will make the class more challenging and fun.

Edited March 13, 2012 by XOrionX

[Turn-XGundam]

i am pretty sure the buffs/debuffs from tracer will split with tracer and powershot. if they give buff/debuffs to stupid attacks like missile blast it'll be useless. now since we'll be using another attack instead of tracer, they might increase buff/debuff per attack. plus some other buff

 

meaning this change will make even more powerful. then the forums will have QQ about nerf powershot/tracer"

[AAmedeo]

Again, not really a nerf when they say they are going to make the rotation more diffcult. He never says anything in the article about Arsenal Merc damage.

 

In my opinion, this is a buff in that it will make the class more challenging and fun.

 

If they make other skills build the Buffs/Debuffs, I am fine with that. As for making Merc more interesting, meh. It just rearranges my rotation. It will be more for others to not be annoyed by my sound/amination than it will be for a real change for me.

 

If others think that this makes it look that I am more skilled, so be it.

[Yazule]

i am pretty sure the buffs/debuffs from tracer will split with tracer and powershot. if they give buff/debuffs to stupid attacks like missile blast it'll be useless. now since we'll be using another attack instead of tracer, they might increase buff/debuff per attack. plus some other buff

 

meaning this change will make even more powerful. then the forums will have QQ about nerf powershot/tracer"

 

lol that is what i am hoping, when the qqers come in we can say "hey we got a nerf already

 

roflol

[Turn-XGundam]

If they make other skills build the Buffs/Debuffs, I am fine with that. As for making Merc more interesting, meh. It just rearranges my rotation. It will be more for others to not be annoyed by my sound/amination than it will be for a real change for me.

 

If others think that this makes it look that I am more skilled, so be it.

 

thing is details are still a bit sketchy, so either the class could be completly useless pve/pvp wise or it could be even more powerful then ever.

[-Kraxis-]

As long as we keep the same damage ability by doing the rotation "Bioware's new way", I am fine with the changes.

 

If they nerf our overall DPS or burst though, it just proves how out of touch Bioware is with their own game.

 

This is Bioware's fault for making the TM animation so annoying to so many people.

 

Also Bioware, there had better not be any more more /substantial changes that require free skill resets for all classes/. That's a ONE TIME THING for an MMO.. you better have gotten it RIGHT THIS TIME AROUND and not have to revisit every class again 6 months down the road. Having to do such a substantial rebalance to all classes 3 months into launch just shows how fail your designers are... SWG anyone? I'm having deja-vu!

Edited March 13, 2012 by -Kraxis-

[DEuZZ]

To be honest we are by far not OP in anyway in wz if you look on other classes. So the "nerf" is a joke, is like picking on weakest class really!

That said, if this is NOT a nerf that they will change everything about bounty hunter, meaning that spells will be gone, and we need learn all over some other way of playing bounty hunter, then i'm done!

 

I'm already bored with this game, only fun part is wz! and was looking forward to rated wz.

And i do NOT think it's fair to change only "one" class, if so change all classes, as we pretty much need learn how to play again if it's true they will replace tracer missiles and bla bla..

It's a idiotic thing to do, as you played from 1-50 and insane hours more on you char, then all the sudden they change everything about it? lol...

 

If you want to change, change all classes, rather just rename the whole game to, call it star bucks or something, i don't understand you bioware. But then again we shall see, i'm just letting you know, if you start changing my main class to much you lose yet a subscriber to this game!

 

Feel free to lose more people to "changes, nerfs". You cannot balance warzones, don't even try, you will end up like wow, someday making a post "nerfing & changeing a class to much was a mistake".... Mark my words!

Edited March 13, 2012 by DEuZZ

[Iite]

Not exactly but close. Everyone knew in beta that sage/sorc was OP. And the widespread consensus was that it wouldn't matter in the long run because sage/sorc would get nerfed back into balance. However the reaction from the "low skill, wanna be powerful" types was in fact to roll sorcs in particular. And now you can see the effect. There are a ton of sorcs, but half of them have no idea what they are doing. They spam lightning and don't use their heal debuff properly. In contrast if you fight a competent sage/sorc at full strength they will win all the time. Against ANY class.

 

This is all going to become self evident once ranked WZ start. I had to giggle a little bit about the part in the interview where Georg actually contemplated premades filled with sage/sorcs. But his conclusion rather was that tanks won't be able to ignore defense stats once ranked WZ starts. Earth to Georg - it doesn't matter. The tank won't get an invite. Why don't you focus on the reason why a premade would organize with 8 sage/sorcs?

 

 

Sorcs have a heal debuff ?

[Turn-XGundam]

i think by splitting buff/debuff from tracer/grav to other attack, they'll probably increase buff/debuff%.

eg: maybe tracer will keep the armor debuff, it will reduce armor by10% stacks 2 times only now.

while power shot gets power barrier which gives 5% damage reduction stacks 2 times.

 

cause the way it is setup now, if they split the buff/debuff and give some to powershot. it will take 5 tracers and 5 powershots to get the same result 5 tracer gets now. so thats 5 extra gcds, plus the extra time since both tracer/powershot are channeled. too much time to do the same buff/debuff could effectively nerf us. powertech pyro is 1000% better then merc one. hopefully they use the suggestion above.

[Macroecon]

Sorcs have a heal debuff ?

 

What, you guys didn't know that? LOL.

 

Arsenal gets TM as it's debuff attack. It does good damage and debuffs armor vs. one target. Arsenal peeps love it because it only costs about 14% of your heat stack to cast (on ave after RNG crits). The only downside is the 1.5 sec activation time.

 

Sages and Sorcs get a debuff that is far better. It debuffs 20% resistance to periodic force attacks (i.e. they already are past 100% of armor), it is an AoE debuff (8 meter radius), does good damage, and costs 10% of your force stack. It is also instant activation. AND it gives back 2% to your health for every target in the radius (max 3). 15 sec CD which is just enough time to paste your target with DoTs before casting again. Properly used this will give you back more health than Heroic Moment over HM's 20 min CD. And it is fully useable in PvP.

 

Seriously, you guys need to look at sage/sorc before you continue with your "Thank You, Sir may I have another" attitude toward's BW's nerfs. There is NOTHING that dps BH does that dps Sage/Sorc doesn't do better. Better spam attacks, better stun/interrupts, more resources, better DoT, better healing and better burst.

[Onager]

What, you guys didn't know that? LOL.

 

Arsenal gets TM as it's debuff attack. It does good damage and debuffs armor vs. one target. Arsenal peeps love it because it only costs about 14% of your heat stack to cast (on ave after RNG crits). The only downside is the 1.5 sec activation time.

 

Sages and Sorcs get a debuff that is far better. It debuffs 20% resistance to periodic force attacks (i.e. they already are past 100% of armor), it is an AoE debuff (8 meter radius), does good damage, and costs 10% of your force stack. It is also instant activation. AND it gives back 2% to your health for every target in the radius (max 3). 15 sec CD which is just enough time to paste your target with DoTs before casting again. Properly used this will give you back more health than Heroic Moment over HM's 20 min CD. And it is fully useable in PvP.

 

Seriously, you guys need to look at sage/sorc before you continue with your "Thank You, Sir may I have another" attitude toward's BW's nerfs. There is NOTHING that dps BH does that dps Sage/Sorc doesn't do better. Better spam attacks, better stun/interrupts, more resources, better DoT, better healing and better burst.

 

That's not exactly the same. It has 10 counters which deplete rapidly, is cleansable, and the heal is 1% per target unless you take Psychic Absorption/Devour along with it. It also only applies to periodic damage, so it's not like a heal debuff at all. It's more similar to a rend, but again, only for DoTs.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Onager

[DEuZZ]

i think by splitting buff/debuff from tracer/grav to other attack, they'll probably increase buff/debuff%.

eg: maybe tracer will keep the armor debuff, it will reduce armor by10% stacks 2 times only now.

while power shot gets power barrier which gives 5% damage reduction stacks 2 times.

 

cause the way it is setup now, if they split the buff/debuff and give some to powershot. it will take 5 tracers and 5 powershots to get the same result 5 tracer gets now. so thats 5 extra gcds, plus the extra time since both tracer/powershot are channeled. too much time to do the same buff/debuff could effectively nerf us. powertech pyro is 1000% better then merc one. hopefully they use the suggestion above.

 

I hear you

[Scoobings]

This reads to me like they're going to nerf the simplicity of the class by raising the skill ceiling. Which IMO is good. I never thought the class did too much damage but in it's current status it's completely faceroll easy. I'm down for anything that makes this game more complicated.

[DEuZZ]

What, you guys didn't know that? LOL.

 

Arsenal gets TM as it's debuff attack. It does good damage and debuffs armor vs. one target. Arsenal peeps love it because it only costs about 14% of your heat stack to cast (on ave after RNG crits). The only downside is the 1.5 sec activation time.

 

Sages and Sorcs get a debuff that is far better. It debuffs 20% resistance to periodic force attacks (i.e. they already are past 100% of armor), it is an AoE debuff (8 meter radius), does good damage, and costs 10% of your force stack. It is also instant activation. AND it gives back 2% to your health for every target in the radius (max 3). 15 sec CD which is just enough time to paste your target with DoTs before casting again. Properly used this will give you back more health than Heroic Moment over HM's 20 min CD. And it is fully useable in PvP.

 

Seriously, you guys need to look at sage/sorc before you continue with your "Thank You, Sir may I have another" attitude toward's BW's nerfs. There is NOTHING that dps BH does that dps Sage/Sorc doesn't do better. Better spam attacks, better stun/interrupts, more resources, better DoT, better healing and better burst.

 

As ive played pvp since beta i hear you bro, what you are saying is the truth, i would'nt just agree if i did not mean it.

[Macroecon]

That's not exactly the same. It has 10 counters which deplete rapidly, is cleansable, and the heal is 1% per target unless you take Psychic Absorption/Devour along with it. It also only applies to periodic damage, so it's not like a heal debuff at all. It's more similar to a rend, but again, only for DoTs.

 

No, it's not the same as TM. It's far better. Claiming that it only heals for 1% per target is like claiming that TM costs 25 heat to cast. It doesn't. Just stop it.

 

It is a heal debuff. It debuffs the target AND it heals you. If you interpreted that term as meaning it makes it harder for the target to cast heals, then we just have a misunderstanding.

[DEuZZ]

This reads to me like they're going to nerf the simplicity of the class by raising the skill ceiling. Which IMO is good. I never thought the class did too much damage but in it's current status it's completely faceroll easy. I'm down for anything that makes this game more complicated.

 

Some likes "easy" classes, and if you think tracer's is only spell i use you need play a bh, or learn to play one, yes i am arsenal spec.

[Onager]

No, it's not the same as TM. It's far better. Claiming that it only heals for 1% per target is like claiming that TM costs 25 heat to cast. It doesn't. Just stop it.

 

It is a heal debuff. It debuffs the target AND it heals you. If you interpreted that term as meaning it makes it harder for the target to cast heals, then we just have a misunderstanding.

 

In modern MMO vernacular dating back as far as the genre and pvp have coexisted, a 'Heal debuff' means that the target takes a penalty to healing income. Say, someone tries to heal someone with a 30% heal debuff, with a spell that normally heals for 5,000 health, that person instead takes a heal of 3500. Heal debuff. The misunderstanding here is your own.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure two things are at work here;

 

A: Your own lack of understanding of game mechanics on a basic and workable level, and

 

B: You chose to come to the Bounty Hunter forum to mount a crusade... Against sorcerers...

 

Why? Why come here of all places to ***** about sorcerers?

 

It's an old trope, but show me on the plush Yoda where the mean Palpatine touched you...

[Macroecon]

A: Your own lack of understanding of game mechanics on a basic and workable level, and

 

B: You chose to come to the Bounty Hunter forum to mount a crusade... Against sorcerers...

 

Why? Why come here of all places to ***** about sorcerers?

 

Awww, we seem to have triggered Onager's defense mechanisms. Resorting to underhanded attacks now to divert attention? And I turn your question on it's head. Why would you come here of all places to vent about others attitude towards your class? I guess you make it a habit to patrol all the sub forums in a vain attempt to convince others your class isn't OP. Sorry, everyone in beta knew it was OP 4 months ago.

[Scoobings]

Some likes "easy" classes, and if you think tracer's is only spell i use you need play a bh, or learn to play one, yes i am arsenal spec.

 

It's not the only spell but are you going to tell me that your rotation isn't heavily dependent on it? Because, just because I don't have an Merc doesn't mean I don't know how they work. I try to do a lot of research on classes that I don't play so I know how to beat them in PVP. 5/6 of your first moves in an opening rotation are Tracer missile...

 

It swings both ways. Wouldn't you like to have a class that's a bit more involved and a little more complicated? I know that would bore me to tears and my Merc friend complains about how face roll his rotation is while he raids because he gets bored.

 

When I played a rogue in WoW BC I was bored to friggin tears with how boring my rotation was.

[Denarok]

I am curious why they are discovering this now and making major changes to a class?

 

I am fine with some changes here and there but it sounds like some major design changes.

 

Were we just playing beta for the past 4 months?

 

 

I am going to take a wait and see approach and see what happens in 1.2

 

But if i have to relearn a whole new class I hope that maybe they give us a chance to choose a different AC, so I can go powertech instead

[Onager]

Why would you come here of all places to vent about others attitude towards your class?

 

Did I? You're the only person I'm having this conversation with, and you were the first to bring it up. Feel free to click my name and check my posting history here on the BH forum and child fora.

 

Basically, it was like this:

 

In this thread, I made the following post:

 

 

 

Um, how is data polling a flawed means of determining balance? You think all the uber skilled players chose commandos and mercenaries and thus those classes are overperforming, making the data skewed?

 

LOL, no.

 

They're not looking at the same screens you are. You know, as the developers, they can pop the hood and look at the actual combat logs that exist only for their own use and not ours. It's how it works. Every developer of every MMO does this.

 

 

This was my first post in this thread. No mention of sorcerers or sages. Only the fact that I'm a sage is listed in my sig, maybe that's what you were attacking, whatever.

 

Your followup:

 

 

Not exactly but close. Everyone knew in beta that sage/sorc was OP. And the widespread consensus was that it wouldn't matter in the long run because sage/sorc would get nerfed back into balance. However the reaction from the "low skill, wanna be powerful" types was in fact to roll sorcs in particular. And now you can see the effect. There are a ton of sorcs, but half of them have no idea what they are doing. They spam lightning and don't use their heal debuff properly. In contrast if you fight a competent sage/sorc at full strength they will win all the time. Against ANY class.

 

This is all going to become self evident once ranked WZ start. I had to giggle a little bit about the part in the interview where Georg actually contemplated premades filled with sage/sorcs. But his conclusion rather was that tanks won't be able to ignore defense stats once ranked WZ starts. Earth to Georg - it doesn't matter. The tank won't get an invite. Why don't you focus on the reason why a premade would organize with 8 sage/sorcs?

 

 

Note the bolded part. This was the first time anyone in the thread started talking about sages and sorcerers. It's all you brah. What in the world are you doing accusing me of coming here specifically to defend sages and sorcs?

 

Your inability to understand what the phrase 'Heal debuff' actually means aside, I'm not defending anything but the facts. You can pull some cool bro stories out your nethers all you want, the only person to even bring up Sages unprovoked here was you.

[Scoobings]

I am curious why they are discovering this now and making major changes to a class?

 

I am fine with some changes here and there but it sounds like some major design changes.

 

Were we just playing beta for the past 4 months?

 

 

I am going to take a wait and see approach and see what happens in 1.2

 

But if i have to relearn a whole new class I hope that maybe they give us a chance to choose a different AC, so I can go powertech instead

 

Overhauls happen pretty regularly in MMOs. Usually the class is better for it, and it sounds like that's what they want to achieve here. People are quick to over react. They assume they're going to be smashed over the head with the nerf bat when they know absolutely 0 details on what's coming.

[DEuZZ]

It's not the only spell but are you going to tell me that your rotation isn't heavily dependent on it? Because, just because I don't have an Merc doesn't mean I don't know how they work. I try to do a lot of research on classes that I don't play so I know how to beat them in PVP. 5/6 of your first moves in an opening rotation are Tracer missile...

 

It swings both ways. Wouldn't you like to have a class that's a bit more involved and a little more complicated? I know that would bore me to tears and my Merc friend complains about how face roll his rotation is while he raids because he gets bored.

 

When I played a rogue in WoW BC I was bored to friggin tears with how boring my rotation was.

 

Of course we use tracer's a lot it's our main spell, but if you see someone ONLY useing that and not mobile at all he is instant failure. I use tracers, stun, knock back, heatseeker missiles, unload, power shot, rapid shots, explosive dart, power punch, shield, rail shot, Vent Heat, Death From Above, Determination... And this is just saying some of the spells i use in combat, i use all of these EVERYTIME! and more spells, so people who only spam tracer's and heatseeker and maybe a rail shot is instant fail in my book! as in pvp its EASY to stop rotation for a bh with interrupt or just jump on him and beat him down so to speak.

 

All i'm saying, even if "some" do it in a BAD way (in my book) and only use some spells, don't mean we all do.

And if you think i do a bad job with useing all my abilities you're wrong again, i always get +300k dmg normal damage in one wz, but what i tend do is around 450k-500k+, and no i don't only go and try spam damage, i do what you are suppose to do on the wz, if its getting a ball over the line in the pit, or getting guns in civil war.

Saying a class is "easy" cuz some play it wrong, is just wrong!

Edited March 13, 2012 by DEuZZ