State of DPS Vanguard and Raiding [PvE]

[Zendokun]

To all the DPS Vanguards,

 

I'd like this to be a discussion as well as a good source of information for new and upcoming Vanguard DPSers.

 

I want to know how all you DPS Vanguards are faring against the other DPS classes such as Commando, Gunslinger, Sentinel & even DPS Guardian in raiding.

 

I would like to know what builds you use, what gear sets you have, what stats you try to stack and what rotations you commonly use to maximize dps output.

 

In the current state, in my personal situation, the DPS Vanguard is definitely not preferred over the other dps classes in raids. It struggles to keep up in dps over the other classes on equal gearing. I'm not saying they do not do well in raids but that in a situation where you were to take on a raid boss and you needed dps and you had the choice to choose from equally geared dps classes ... would the raid team choose the Vanguard DPS?

 

Please Discuss and be nice.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Zendokun

[Suryi]

Without any real way to determine DPS any discussion is based purely on gut-feelings, so take everything posted here with a pinch of salt.

 

Myself, I'm in a 10/10 NiM guild that is rolling with the following dps: vanguard, sentinel, sage, commando, gunslinger. Our tank prefers guarding the sentinel since he's been pulling the most, however recently I've started pulling off him as well when I go full nuke mode. I've yet to see our ranged dpsers pull aggro, but they need to do 30% more threat as opposed to 10% for us melee, so that doesn't really say anything about their dps... not that pulling aggro is any real way of determining dps but there you go.

 

As far as Infernal Council goes I can't really say since I'm always on one of the 78k hp mob so I always finish first by about 15-20 seconds before the other dps come in, usually the gunslinger.

 

Aside from these two there's no other way of "comparing" dps, at least as far as I know. As for gear/spec I run 8/8/25 and I currently only need Rakata Headpiece, Chest, Legs and Offhand. Could also use augmented belt and bracer but cba now with 1.2 around the corner. My stats, rounded up and unbuffed are:

1720 aim

420 bonus dmg

715 bonus tech dmg

98% accuracy

26% crit chance

74% surge

 

My rotation is Hammer shot if I feel like I'm about to drop below 8 ammo > Incendiary round dot > HiB > Stockstrike > Ion Pulse

 

I don't think Vanguards are quite there at the top of the DPS food chain but this is just my guts telling me so. I've watched streams of gunslingers dpsing in NiM and they seemed to do more dmg then I, tho I suppose we're supposed to make up for it with our mobility. If you're interested in numbers, highest I've crit with HiB was 4.7k (w/o sentinel dmg buff), 3k with ss and 2.5k with Ion Pulse.

 

On a completely unrelated note I did crit fabricator for 11.5k last night, feelsgoodman.

 

Anyway, there's no real way of determining who the best dps class is so atm if there's 1 dps spot open and the leader has to choose between a bunch of people, his choice is going to be made based around the player, not the class, at least for now, so enjoy it while it lasts till we get dmg meters in.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Suryi

[va_wanderer]

To me, it's more a misinformation thing- a lot of people see "Vanguard" and think "Tank", Commando and "DPS" or "Heals".

 

Then you run into 8/8/25's like me and previous poster, or x/x/28's (some people swear by the extra DOT damage on high HP mobs, though I don't find it useful on daily use...). We're definitely DPS and capable of peeling mobs if the RNG is TOO kind. If they get Tactics fixed up proper, we might even see a really potent DPS build out of that as well (as it is, Tactics is efficient but not QUITE as good, IMHO- but it can keep it up till doomsday.).

[Zendokun]

Thanks Suryi & Va_wanderer for the input ... I really hope other DPS Vanguards chip in and give their 2 cents, especially those who have alts of other DPS classes.

 

I really love my Vanguard and I, too, am rolling with a 8/8/25 spec which seems to be optimal for raiding and PvE in general. But it's not nice to be seen as a low dps class and rather pidgeon-holed into tanking. If you get what I mean.

 

So which gear set do you all generally go for? The combat tech or a mix of both eliminator and comabt tech? I see that Suryi has quite some high surge and I'm wondering where you get the surge as most of the gear is stacked with Accuracy & power.

 

I'd really really love to play tactics but for now it's versatile but weak in burst dps and survivability. At least that's what I feel. That being said, it's true that we need some kind of combat log or combat meter to really gauge the dps. I'm hoping it will be implemented at some time in the future. I'll try to post my own stats and numbers here after I note them down.

[TehMerc]

 

I'd really really love to play tactics but for now it's versatile but weak in burst dps and survivability. At least that's what I feel.

 

I'd rather have tactics for keeping on healers and such though honestly. I think what's getting most people is they see Tactics as being a melee tree and just sit there taking the lightsabers to the face. Abuse Hold the Line as much as you can against warriors to get some room, or to keep on that sorcs *** as he tries to pillar hump.

 

The consistent heavy pressure Tactics puts out is enough to keep a healer on edge, using trinkets and cooldowns makes things turn ugly quick for a healer if they aren't getting help from a tactics vanguard.

 

Aside from healers though, it's all about using the situations intelligently, kite when you have to sometimes rather than stand there and take it. We really make people pay for bunching up on one person too much with neural surge + stacks of pulse generator.

 

 

 

 

As far as raiding, with as much ammo as tactics regens you can typically pull heavier ammo rotations between those "run away" phases and not get penalized for it and get back into the fight with enough ammo to get back up to full with a hammer shot or two sprinkled in between fire pulse and stock strike.

 

Hold the Line really helps with phases where you need to run in or out quickly as well, like Missle Salvos and such, not even taking into account moving 15% faster at all times anyhow. It's far from just a "pvp tree".

 

Anyway it's all relative without a damage meter like people have said, I know that with out a guard on me that if I go all out tanks will have issues with threat for quite some time into the fight (though that may be vanguards not having an aggro dump issue, maybe even our tanks though I doubt they both don't know a good threat rotation).

 

Reminds me of being an arms warrior back in WoW during Wrath and even into Cata, course it kinda pushes you to be better when people snap judge you

[DimeThePG]

I am in a NM Guild 10/10 and we have the Titel from Karagga in under 2h and have made EK NM in less then 2h (but haven´t got the Titel from EK).

 

Nobody in my Guild says Vanguards do no DMG since they have seen me in the raid.

I get ever Guard but if someone pulls aggro its me.

At the 4 Boss in EK i normaly kill my HIGH HP mob when the next best is around 10-20% on his mob.

 

At Soa i get Guard too and if our Tank comes to the Mindtrap the boss instantly attaks me.

So i don´t know if our other DPS are crap but if not i do very good DPS. (But i am not full rakata becouse i normaly tank and have a rakata Tankgear and a few DPS Rakatas)

 

i run a 7/6/28 Build.

I wear the Vanguard DPS Set. 8% to HIP is evil.

With the hit problem i change the upgrades with hit with some who randomly drop at the Bosses in EK with crit/AP/surge.

 

So after all i don´t know are our DPS very bad that i be the best oder what ever.

The raids atm are EXTREMLY easy and without DPS meter you cannot say anything.

[Suryi]

I'm wondering where you get the surge as most of the gear is stacked with Accuracy & power.

 

Rakata Implants are, contrary to some people's belief, best in slot for us since they add about 80 power and 110 surge (together, not each). Also feel free to fiddle around with your enhancements. Columni combat tech headpiece and gloves have a power & surge enhancement and Eliminator headpiece and gloves have cirt & surge, depending on what you need you can yank them out and put them in your current gear. You can even pull the enhancement out of other classes' gear, provided it's the right one.

 

I'm curious to see what my stats will look in full rakata and I'm still torn up about Accuracy. I've seen more HiB dodges then I would like but strangely enough no misses even tho I'm not 100% acc, and increasing it to 105% to prevent dodges could gimp my other stats too much /shrug

[tombok]

no problems here as dps vanguard.

game is easy enough where if geared, raid comp i feel doesn't matter as much.

heck, sometimes if im lazy i stayed spec'd as tank, and still no problems downing all mobs in hm ops. nightmare? well i dunno having never done it.

 

btw, our raid group only has one slinger so its not a dps heavy raid group.

 

skill over class, if u know how to play and know how to manage ur ammo, you should have no problems keeping up.

 

without a dmg meter, we wont really know how much dmg we are doing compared to other classes.

 

but i feel in a mobile boss fight (such as bone thrasher) dps vanguard has to top the dmg charts. especially in a long fight where keeping the boss dotted imo has to add for alot.

 

also, dps vanguards can spec back and forth from off tank and dps. this may be needed in hm ops if ur guild isn't geared well.

Edited March 3, 2012 by tombok