Taking as a semi-fresh 50

[Eastaran]

I hit 50 about 2 weeks ago and have been doing a mix of HM Flashpoints and PVP. I'm geared in a mixture of Columi (2 pieces) and 3 pieces of Survivor Cent/Champ gear.

 

I have roughly 1600 Endurance and 1100 Willpower which gives me about 18.5k HP with my Rakata Endurance Stim. I think I have around 45% absorb, 24% shield (prior to KW, 44% after KW I believe) and about 23% Defence.

 

I have next to no crit/surge/power on my build. I have a level 51 hilt on my saber though so that's as good as I can get for right now. But I've been having a problem keeping hate in the Flashpoints (mostly because I always get at least 1 DPS that's decked in full Columi) but still I think as a Shadow I have plenty of threat mechanics that I shouldn't have this big of problem. It's to the point where if I don't ride my taunt timers I won't have threat at all.

 

I ran EV Normal the other night as an off-tank where the main tank was a Guardian and I didn't have threat once, on anything unless I had taunted it. I'm doing the standard rotation, ST, DS until PA, Project then TK at 3x HS.

 

Am I too defensively geared? I just feel like I'm not keeping up in the damage department and that's what is keeping me from keeping as much threat.

 

Any suggestions?

[General_Koala]

Make sure to put guard on the healer or the dps that is pulling aggro.

 

You'll get a lot of his aggro and that help quite a bit.

[Rejectoo]

I hit 50 about 2 weeks ago and have been doing a mix of HM Flashpoints and PVP. I'm geared in a mixture of Columi (2 pieces) and 3 pieces of Survivor Cent/Champ gear.

 

I have roughly 1600 Endurance and 1100 Willpower which gives me about 18.5k HP with my Rakata Endurance Stim. I think I have around 45% absorb, 24% shield (prior to KW, 44% after KW I believe) and about 23% Defence.

 

I have next to no crit/surge/power on my build. I have a level 51 hilt on my saber though so that's as good as I can get for right now. But I've been having a problem keeping hate in the Flashpoints (mostly because I always get at least 1 DPS that's decked in full Columi) but still I think as a Shadow I have plenty of threat mechanics that I shouldn't have this big of problem. It's to the point where if I don't ride my taunt timers I won't have threat at all.

 

I ran EV Normal the other night as an off-tank where the main tank was a Guardian and I didn't have threat once, on anything unless I had taunted it. I'm doing the standard rotation, ST, DS until PA, Project then TK at 3x HS.

 

Am I too defensively geared? I just feel like I'm not keeping up in the damage department and that's what is keeping me from keeping as much threat.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

I have a 2 guildies that are full Rakata and they tend to pull aggro from me. Spamming Taunt helps but what I found is Guard the highest DPS that is closest to you and it will mitigated the aggro.

 

Why not the healers well the healers like the sage that leads our 8 man tells me he has aggro reduction ability so he makes that part of rotation.

[KeyboardNinja]

A couple immediate thoughts, based on what you have described. For starters, your shield chance should be *much* higher than that. Even before getting my Rakata set bonus, I was hitting shield chance of 60+% with KW. Additionally, I would expect that your total health pool would be a little higher (in the low 19k range) with the Rakata stim and the gear you have described. When I got my second Columi piece, I was otherwise wearing pure Orange modded with 50s and 51s and had 19.3k HP, 61% shield with KW, 37% absorb and 31% defense. Without actually looking at your exact gear, I couldn't say what's wrong, but my guess is there are too many points in absorb. None of this is a significant issue, but worth thinking about.

 

There are a couple reasons why you might be having trouble holding threat. For starters, if your power and strength stats are too low, then you will have difficulty putting up the damage numbers needed to stay ahead of your DPS. I don't have my character sheet in front of me, but you definitely don't want to neglect those stats. Crit also helps *tremendously* here. It feels like a crit actually gives you threat above and beyond the extra damage, though without a combat log I can't say for sure. If so, then FP and PA's value is even higher than widely believed. I didn't min-max specifically for crit/surge, but I do have a few points that ended up there.

 

Remember that willpower only increases the strength of your *force* attacks. Most of your attacks are going to be melee (DS), as is your single highest damage attack (SS). Project and TK Throw are heavy hitters, but you need to wait on HS for TK Throw while Project is far too expensive to just spam. Thus, melee is your main source of flat threat, while force is your source of burst threat.

 

Likely, the biggest issue is how your cooldowns line up with your DPS's cooldowns. If they are bursting during one of your flat damage periods, they can easily pull agro off of you unless you *vastly* out-gear them. This is more a problem in flashpoints than operations, due to the more concentrated DPS and spikier damage. Try to spend a bit of time understanding the DPS rotations of the people you're running with. Discuss with them to figure out what their numbers look like in general. You may want to stagger combat openings to get cooldowns to line up more effectively.

 

As already mentioned in this thread, use your guard. Watch to see who is pulling aggro off of you, and swap the guard over to them. (note that this actually takes a double activation of the ability, presumably due to a bug) If you're quick, you should be able to guard swap in about 0.5-0.7s, which is well within the span of a GCD. Being dynamic with your guard is probably the most important class-agnostic tanking skill you can develop.

 

Finally, unless you're running with severely under-geared or under-skilled DPS, there will *always* be situations where DPS pull aggro off of you. This is generally a good sign, since it means their output is exceptionally high. Your job is just to make sure that your damage and self-healing output generate sufficient threat to delay these aggro pulls longer than the cooldown on your taunts. Taunts are off the GCD, so you should be able to retake aggro (when lost) within 0.2-0.25s (barring any aggro reset mechanics that force taunt use at other times). In addition to taunting, take advantage of the fact that you (as a shadow) have the best burst DPS of any tank. Burning cooldowns and a little extra force can get you a nice burst, generally enough to put you back on top of the aggro table even without a taunt.

 

I do regularly lose aggro to our shadow and commando DPS in flashpoints, and occasionally to our smuggler healer, but I almost never lose aggro on a single target in an operation.

Edited February 24, 2012 by KeyboardNinja

[Rejectoo]

I do regularly lose aggro to our shadow and commando DPS in flashpoints, and occasionally to our smuggler healer, but I almost never lose aggro on a single target in an operation.

 

I agree with all you said. But wait till they are in full Rakata with Rakata weapons and all and are critting for 8k to 10k with inspiration then watch how fast they get aggro. I have to use AoE taunt sometimes while single is on cool down to keep aggro off that silly crit happy commando. Oh this only is worse when there are 2 commandos in the group.

[KeyboardNinja]

I agree with all you said. But wait till they are in full Rakata with Rakata weapons and all and are critting for 8k to 10k with inspiration then watch how fast they get aggro. I have to use AoE taunt sometimes while single is on cool down to keep aggro off that silly crit happy commando. Oh this only is worse when there are 2 commandos in the group.

 

Two commandos in a 4-man is indeed the worst possible situation for threat management. Shadow DPS are more annoying in the first 8 seconds, due to their insanely hard-hitting opening rotation. After the opening though, commandos generate the highest burst threat thanks to their grav round stack procing a subsequent crit.

 

As to gear, if your DPS are fully Rakata geared and you aren't, well, yeah you're going to lose aggro all the time. Burst tricks can help hold aggro over shorter fights even in the face of higher-geared DPS, but in the long run, you need to be evenly geared if you expect to generate sufficient threat.

[trakata]

Crit also helps *tremendously* here. It feels like a crit actually gives you threat above and beyond the extra damage, though without a combat log I can't say for sure. If so, then FP and PA's value is even higher than widely believed. I didn't min-max specifically for crit/surge, but I do have a few points that ended up there.

 

Remember that willpower only increases the strength of your *force* attacks. Most of your attacks are going to be melee (DS), as is your single highest damage attack (SS). Project and TK Throw are heavy hitters, but you need to wait on HS for TK Throw while Project is far too expensive to just spam. Thus, melee is your main source of flat threat, while force is your source of burst threat.

 

 

Umm, why stack Crit? Particle Acceleration guarantees automatic critical hits on Project, your big threat/damage dealer, and Force Potency increases crit chance for things like TK Throw (which when you have 3x Harnessed Shadow stacks is a huge threat dealer). If anything you'd want Surge...to a point anyway. Power is definitely useful, and Accuracy (which our gear has a bunch of) can help in PVE tanking to reduce enemy mitigation.

 

Also, I thought that since Willpower was the Jedi Consular primary stat, it actually enhances ALL attacks. Somebody else please correct me if I'm wrong.

[KeyboardNinja]

Umm, why stack Crit? Particle Acceleration guarantees automatic critical hits on Project, your big threat/damage dealer, and Force Potency increases crit chance for things like TK Throw (which when you have 3x Harnessed Shadow stacks is a huge threat dealer). If anything you'd want Surge...to a point anyway. Power is definitely useful, and Accuracy (which our gear has a bunch of) can help in PVE tanking to reduce enemy mitigation.

 

That's a good point. Ignore what I said about crit. Some of my gear stat planning comes from a) old patches, and b) before I wised up enough to work through the PA and FP effects.

 

Also, I thought that since Willpower was the Jedi Consular primary stat, it actually enhances ALL attacks. Somebody else please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Only force abilities and attacks. Melee is unaffected by willpower. One quick source: http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Willpower

Edited February 24, 2012 by KeyboardNinja

[MithrilSoul]

 

Only force abilities and attacks. Melee is unaffected by willpower. One quick source: http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Willpower

 

Completely, 100% untrue. I can only surmise from this that KeyboardNinja is a guardian and not a shadow.

 

For shadows, willpower increses melee damage as much as strength does, while ALSO increasing force power damage and about three other things as well. THere is absolutely zero reason, ever, EVER, for a shadow to have any gear on him with strength. For shadows it is willpower 100% of the way.

[oddmyth]

When I got my second Columi piece, I was otherwise wearing pure Orange modded with 50s and 51s and had 19.3k HP, 61% shield with KW, 37% absorb and 31% defense.

 

No you weren't.

 

Crit also helps *tremendously* here. It feels like a crit actually gives you threat above and beyond the extra damage, though without a combat log I can't say for sure. If so, then FP and PA's value is even higher than widely believed. I didn't min-max specifically for crit/surge, but I do have a few points that ended up there.

 

Pure idiocy.

 

Remember that willpower only increases the strength of your *force* attacks.

 

Even more idiotic.

 

As already mentioned in this thread, use your guard. Watch to see who is pulling aggro off of you, and swap the guard over to them. (note that this actually takes a double activation of the ability, presumably due to a bug)

 

Bug was fixed a long time ago.

 

Stop posting this useless drivel.