Op/Scoundrel Improvement idea

[Aryslan]

Ops/Scoundrels are supposed to be stealth and burst DPS classes.

We are stealth but no Burst DPS class, not anymore.

 

Thinking on how the classes could be improved without making us overpowered i figured some kind of bonus to dmg if target is not targetting us or some active skill.

 

Quick Explanation:

1- If mob/player is not targetting us we should have some kind of bonus dmg, not much maybe 5 or 10%. Lets call its a passive skill called Surprise Flanking or something like that. The drawback is see on this is that is easily exploitable and the rivers of tears of other classes.

 

2- An active skill similar to the Shadows/Sins one where you taunt and if the mob is targetting other one than you he does 30% less dmg. Instead of that we could make it to improve our dmg for XX% if mob/player is not targetting us. Call it Anatomy Knowledge or something like that.

 

Option 2 is an active skill that has cooldown and should last 6 to 10 secs max (10 secs is too much IMO). This would increase the dmg the pure stealth classes do (not shadow/sin since they are hybrids).

 

As we have no sustained dmg i think an increase of the burst dmg is the solution, if its permanent people will cry, if its not class is underpowered compared to the rest. So the balance lies in the medium, increase of burst dmg but not always.

 

Opinions please? If i see this is accepted by the fellow mirror class i will post it in the suggestion forum.

[Kaijan]

Enemies auto target you if they're targeting no one and you attack them, nulling much of that damage. Plus, that second ability is just encouraging enemies to target you, and we're squishy little mo-fos.

 

Better idea would be something to increase long term damage sustainability. 4 stack debuff with 15 second duration that increases armor pen by 5% when you use backstab, or something.

 

Additionally, survivability is an issue. Evasion is damn near useless for anything but a DoT wipe. Adding in a damage reduction component would be nice (20% may be too much, but 4 seconds isn't long for something like that). Also, considering that we have only 2 cast-time heals (with one hinging on TAs), an interrupt immunity for the duration would be stellar (even if it were in the medic tree).

 

Lastly, energy regen is a cruel mistress. I'd be happy if Stims granted 5 energy on use without Combat Stims talent, but an increase to the energy returned would be better. It'd definitely increase sustainability.

 

Keep in mind, this is primarily for Convealment spec. Medic has issues as well that I'd like fixed, but that's a whole 'nother issue. The worst, though, is Lethality. I'm completely unsure how to go about fixing THAT tree beyond making Shiv, Cull, and Weakening blast a 15m range, and increasing the duration/effect of weakening blast. A significant decrease to the energy cost of Cull would probably help, too.

 

...

 

And that's all without mentioning a gap closer, but a Shadowstep (even just 20m) would be phenominal.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Kaijan

[Aryslan]

Well i was thinking in active skills more than anything to benefit all the trees.

 

For example in PvE you have companions that can hold the aggro while you get the benefit. The main concept is that the increase in dmg could also apply an increase in healing.

 

I have encountered some problems with energy regen too, maybe a skill in any tree that increases by 2 the energy gained per sec could be cool.

 

The armor penetration would be fantastic, i dont know why a 5% AP buff was added per TA, an increase in energy regen while active would be cool too. The %dmg increase while TA is up is to say the least laughable, Juyo form stacks for Jedi Sents 5 times, each stack giving 2% dmg increase and burn skills increase 3% crit chance per stack when used. Dont know why Ops/Scoundrels have something similar, having in mind we only can stack 2 TA...

 

Not to mention the all so known big MMO, many other RPG games (offline and online) have a "Death Target" skill that increase the dmg and crit chance or dmg to the target.

Instead of a Death Target, call it Focused or whatever that could increase the healing done to the target. It would be a skill castable on both mobs and friendly.

[Kaijan]

Ah, you're looking at it from a PvE standpoint.

 

Honestly, I just can't see anything involving targeting ever being a viable "fix" for operatives. However, the idea that our burst should be repeatable has merit. Currently, we're constantly fighting an uphill battle, with most of our damage bing front loaded and ramping down beyond that.

 

Your solutions, however inelegant and incompatible with PvP they may be, do raise interesting points as to the merits of repeatable burst versus consistently sustained damage (which is more common to other classes).

 

Your focused idea, however, is not something I'd ever like to see. It's hard enough to kill an enemy that heals without helping him do it. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Kaijan

[Aryslan]

Posted the same thread in Scoundrel forum. Suggestions obtained:

 

 

To be honest, not really that keen on this. I'd much rather they fix our resource management to let us do reasonable sustained DPS for endgame PVE content as its in PVE that we have the real issues rather than in PVP.

 

(1) Wounding Shot and Kolto Pack require but do not consume Upper Hand.

 

(2) Upper Hand lasts 15s instead of 10s.

 

(3) Hemorrhaging Blast grants Upper Hand.

 

(4) Move our Maximum Energy Regeneration threshold from 60% to 50%.

 

(5) Increase the absorption of Defense Screen by around 50%.

 

(6) Improve the way that Kolto Cloud is applied so it effects the four most-damaged of the eligible targets.

 

(7) Either an in-combat speed boost that works as a gap closer OR better resistance to Snares/Roots (I prefer the second.)

 

(8) Sabotage Charge does not require cover (possibly only for DFers.)

 

Most of those changes are primarily focused on DF and Sawbones because they are our two weakest trees, although 2, 4, 5 & 7 would help Scrappers a lot too.

[Kaijan]

I like all of those except that cull shouldn't cost a TA. I think removing that would mean that no one would take Weakening Blast and instead take Lacerate to spend the TAs. It would certainly create some interesting hybrid specs, though.

[Aryslan]

Ah, you're looking at it from a PvE standpoint.

 

Honestly, I just can't see anything involving targeting ever being a viable "fix" for operatives. However, the idea that our burst should be repeatable has merit. Currently, we're constantly fighting an uphill battle, with most of our damage bing front loaded and ramping down beyond that.

 

Your solutions, however inelegant and incompatible with PvP they may be, do raise interesting points as to the merits of repeatable burst versus consistently sustained damage (which is more common to other classes).

 

Your focused idea, however, is not something I'd ever like to see. It's hard enough to kill an enemy that heals without helping him do it. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said.

 

The main idea is that OPS/Scoundrel if specced Concealment are burst dps. There are other classes doing sustained DPS flawlessly.

 

The focus system would help for Operations, if specced medic you can focus the main tank and heal him more than usual, giving more healing and be able to get in groups easily.

If specced for dmg, you could focus on the boss to do more dmg.

 

Thing is that PvP regarding balancing is hard to achieve because it depends on the rest of classes too, its useless if we get buffed and the sorc/sages bubbles get buffed too as example.

 

But PvE balancing its easier. Many people play in PvE realms (not me tho) but if we make the class more appealing or prepared to fit in PvE groups and such more players will create and play these classes, and in the long term that means more feedback and attention.

 

I have read everything regarding PvP wise. We are OK, we are f**ed, we are medium and so. But the common thing in PvP and PvE is that we lack utility in a group except our 5% crit bonus buff.

 

The concept i have in mind is to boost the class abilities when in a group, usually you wont PvP 1vs1, and usually the times i have done that i had the upper hand (assuming i choosed to fight since i usually pick my targets according to my capabilities).

[plic]

I like where you're going with the 10 second activated spell to increase damage...It would help both pve and pvp in my mind...for sustained damage give it say a 30 second CD so every 20 seconds we can burst a boss and for those twenty seconds we energy manage...Like an arc mage in cata...

 

In PvP it would help our initial burst and when we are not in stealth and hit like a baby...

 

And Kaijan, i would love to replace WB with Lac if cull didn't cost TA...You look at the classes that are dominating PvP Merc/comm, Sorc/sage, and personally I throw in PT/van, they all use hyrbrid specs more than their "true" pvp tree....

 

I would personally have more problem with more buttons to use...it would help cull the weak and bads from ops/scoundrel...

 

anyways, those were my ideas.

 

-plic-

[Joefjr]

We really do need a gap closer, something like force speed that Assassins get.

 

Concealment is the only MDPS that doesn't have a gap closer.

[Foxtrot_lv]

Scouting (tier 2 talent) - get rid of that +2% defence nonsence. This is an absurd stat for a non-tanking class. It is a complete garbage in PvE and PvP alike. Dont tell me we absolutely need these 2% to survive a mob's melee atack doing our dailies or to counter a pve boss melee hit (lolwut?!). Replace it with + 2% overall damage reduction if you like.

 

Same reasoning is applied to Evasion ability - is it utterly worthless in a world of Tech and Force damage. Bust it, alongside with passive movement imparing effects removal and give

us one ability to remove and fully resist any force/elemental and tech spells application for 3 sec. Put it on 2 min cd, let it share a 30 sec activation window with Cloaking screen.